Thoughts on coconut palm sugar? - Page 2

[elleystar]

Originally Posted by cocopalmsugar

re PCA registration of Big Tree Farms or Sweet Tree brand
Metasequoia quoted that "Big Tree Farms" or "Sweet Tree" brand is certified by the Philippine Coconut Authority but that is not true. I've asked my contacts from PCA about this and there are no foreign companies that's registered with them.

Besides, Big Tree Farms operate from Indonesia and is outside the authority of the Philippine Coconut Authority agency.

I wondered about that. I just had my health food store order some in and bought two bags. I looked all over the package for any info on the PCA certification and found nothing. I have no idea what brand to look for now, so I may just be SOL.

[amcal]

So, I'm confused. Is he saying that Sweet Tree brand palm sugar is not actually made from the sap of the coco nuciferous tree? Or, it's simply not certified by the Philippine Coconut Authority because they actually operate from Indonesia?

I have the bag in front of me and no where does it claim they are certified so I'm not sure where that came from?

But, it does say that Sweet Tree Blonde palm sugar is produced from the nectar of tropical coconut palm blossoms. It doesn't list coco nuciferous anywhere on the bag.

But from their website it says

Just pure, unadulterated palm sugar made from 100% coconut nectar from Coco Nucifera.

So, I'm confused. Is it or isn't it?

[JoyMC]

my local asian market has some that has no ingredient list or mention of certification. but it's $1.60/16 ounces!! when i look online it's much more expensive.

has anyone found a really reasonable online source of a good-quality version? maybe an online Asian market?

[cocopalmsugar]

@elleystar
The PCA registration requirement only applies to Philippine-made coco palm sugars. I do not know if Indonesia has any similar agency or certification requirement. Aside from the PCA, Philippine producers will also have to comply with food processing requirements of BFAD (this is the local equivalent of the FDA of the US.)

I assume (and hopefully, I"m right) that food laws in other countries strictly prohibit mis-labeling of products, and they cannot claim the products being market as "coconut palm sugar" are made from sap other than the flowers of the coconut tree.

As far as I know, "gula jawa/ gula aren/ gula merah" the traditional palm sugars of Indonesia and Bali are often made from the Borassus palm tree and other palm trees but make no distinctions between them.

This cookbook guide writes: "Gula Jawa (Coconut Sugar) is made from the Borassus (Palmyra palm) and is used in Javanese cuisine. One can substitute either brown sugar (preferred substitution) or white sugar for Gula Jawa."

I sure will not agree to calling "coconut sugar" as coconut sugar when it comes from the Palmyra tree. Palm sugar is a generic name but coconut sugar is a specific kind of palm sugar - that is from the coconut tree (cocos nuciferas)

@amcal
In the absence of any certification process, consumers will have to rely on what producers claim.

@joyMC
What's "reasonable", anyway?

I've asked this before in another forum but never got an answer back: Why are people not complaining about the price of maple sugar?

Palm sugars (including coco palm sugar) are not as expensive as maple sugars but could stand on its own on flavor alone. No sugarcane-based sweetener can claim the same.

The other health benefits of coco palm sugar (low glycemic, unrefined and naturally-rich in vitamins and minerals) are added bonuses.

[cocopalmsugar]

By the way, given a blind taste test of any palm sugar, it will be very hard to determine their sources.

You cannot tell by sight whether a particular palm sugar comes from a specific palm variety.

You cannot differentiate sap source by flavor.

Color is a general indicator of flavor and how the sugar was processed, darker-colored palm sugars have bold, caramel-ly flavors while lighter ones are more delicately complex.

So, are light one better than dark ones? Not necessarily. Dark-colored sugar are great for baking and cooking because of the more intense flavor they add but light ones are best for drinks, for the delicate flavor they add to it.

[elleystar]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

This is from the blog that 3boobykins linked to:



She links to this site which talks about palm sugar actually being cane sugar disguised as palm sugar & the difference between coconut palm sugar & other palm sugars.

There's a blog post in that link above that says this:



This coconut palm sugar is certified by the PCA.

Metasequoia, can you remember where you found that the Big Tree Farms coconut sugar is PCA certified?

[amcal]

cocoapalmsugar - thanks for the information!

So, can I ask what your recommendation would be for those of us living in the US who want to use coconut palm sugar from the coco nuciferous tree?

The only one we have available that extensively says in many places that it is coconut palm from the coco nuciferous tree is Sweet Tree.

Please note that some coconut palm sugar on the market, in particular palm sugar from Thailand, is also mixed with cane sugar and other malt-based ingredients. Our coconut palm sugar is PURE coconut palm nectar. No cane sugar added. No maltodexrin added. Just pure, unadulterated coconut palm sugar made from 100% coconut palm nectar from Coco Nucifera, the green coconut tree.

We do have Asian markets - I have a huge Asian supermarket near me and I've looked there and unable to find anything that says coconut palm sugar. I've taken in your list of what it's commonly called in other countries and they looked at me like I was crazy.

I'm feeling like, as with anything, unless you make it yourself I guess you can never be 100% positive but, Sweet Tree seems to be legitimate to me. I could be wrong but, for me, I feel more comfortable with them than with a product in an Asian market that has confusing labeling and undetermined orgins.

[JoyMC]

Originally Posted by cocopalmsugar

@joyMC
What's "reasonable", anyway?

I've asked this before in another forum but never got an answer back: Why are people not complaining about the price of maple sugar?

i'm not complaining about the price of anything. but one of the reasons i would be interested in coco palm sugar is if it can be a less expensive alternative sweetener. i already have high-quality sweeteners i feel good about: rapadura, raw honey, maple syrup. they are very pricey (as eating thoughtfully often is). i have seen on blogs that people get coconut palm sugar for much less $$$ and it is a reason i would go out of my way to get it.

i pay $16 gallon for milk that meets my standards. i will pay what i have to to nourish my family. but i will also always look for the best possible financial option.

[cocopalmsugar]

I hope I was not misunderstood. I never said that palm sugar from Sweet Tree/Big Bali aren't made from coconut trees (cocos nuciferas not coco nuciferous) but that I trust that food labeling laws are strictly enforced or palm sugar production are regulated to keep with standards in the country of origin and wherever it ends up to protect and give more value to consumers.

I would hate to see people paying for "coconut sugar" which they thought were coco palm sugars then end up paying for something it wasn't in the first place.

If the labels clearly state that the sugar are made from coconut palm tree sap (cocos nuciferas), then I really hope it is. I trust that there are sufficient laws in the country to protect us consumers. If they don't state that clearly, that gives me some reason to doubt.

Had there been any other published studies that states that palm sugar from Aren or Borassus, or any other palm sugar also has low glycemic properties then this would not have been an issue. But right now, the only clinical / scientific work has been done on coconuts (cocos nuciferas) but I hope that doesn't stop us from enjoying the wonderful flavors of palm sugar by themselves. Moderation is the key.

@joyMC
I understand what you mean. However, the reason I ask is this: if you do get palm sugar from the Asian market at the cheapest possible price (somebody quoted something like a $1.6 for 16oz), and for example another brand is selling something for the same quantity at $8.99, I'm sure one will wonder why there's such a huge price difference.

Let's run some numbers as food for thought:

On average, it takes about 2 gallons of sap to produce a kilo of palm sugar. Add another 3 or so hours to boil the water out of the sap. Variances will occur due to tree age, variety, harvest weather, number of inflorescences (the flower stalk from which sap is harvested), soil quality, tappers' technique.

The average tapper (the one who gathers the sap) collects about 1 gallon of sap from one coco tree (cocos nucifera) per day.

A Palmyra (Borassus flabellifer) palm tree produces and average of 2.11 gallons per day.

An Aren (Arenga pinnata) palm tree can produce about 1.8 gallons per day.

As you can see, a coconut tapper (without the benefits of mechanized or any automated system for harvesting) needs to work almost twice as much compared to tapping the Borassus or the Aren palm trees to produce the same amount of palm sugar.

A tree needs to be climbed at least three times a day, assuming no additives are used to prevent fermentation. If any chemical additive is used, harvesting can be done once a day.

A coco tree can grow as high as 75-feet.

I assume everyone here has had economics or some form of business mathematics during High School so I'll leave the number crunching to you.

If you have any more questions about coco palm sugars, I'll try my best to answer them.

Happy weekend everyone.

[mamametoo]

Thoughts on coconut palm sugar

I don't use a lot of sweetener, but when I use it I may as well use one that is a healthier and more sustainable alternative. I double checked Sweet Tree from Big Tree Farms because that is what is available to me, and it IS produced exclusively from the Cocos Nucifera. No other palm or cane sugars are used in this 100% organically certified whole-nectar sweetener. And no preservatives like Sodium Bisulphite are used in fermenting process, which is common in the less expensive blocks in Asian markets.

[amcal]

You know, it's really interesting to me how many people register just to say how much they love this sugar. It's happened 2 times on this thread (not talkinga bout cocopalmsugar since he identified himself). But, it also happened on my low carb board. I posted about it asking if anyone knew anythign and all these people registered just to make one post about how much they love this sugar. Odd!

[cocopalmsugar]

@amcal
I am not surprised.

As an example, look at this advertisement (and related links), people are sometimes hired to post on forums or blogs to highlight their products.

Nefarious as it seems, it's a common strategy to create "brand identity" on the Internet and a boon to many outsourcing service providers.