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NO-SHAMPOO MAMAS (February) - Page 3

post #41 of 435
2/7/04 at 1:25pm
Oh, yeah - no spanking, either. I guess when I say mushy I mean I've never gotten my knickers in a twist about chemicals and such. But that may be changing...
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post #42 of 435
2/7/04 at 1:40pm
busybusymama, I am using plain vinegar-it's all I have right now. It's working great. Just like another mom here said- after just BS my hair feels clumpy and like it will be very hard to brush through-then I pour over the diluted vinegar and it all smoothes out and feels so nice.
I'm loving this! I'm washing my hair with bs/vinegar every other or every 3rd day and my oilyness is really evened out.
I know with face washing-when you strip the face of all the oils it makes the skin over-produce oils to rebalance the skin. So maybe that is what is happened with you mamas who are having break outs. Your oil glands need to adjust to not being stripped of all oils and over producing. And use the vinegar! It balances the skin's acid mantle and makes it so soft and smooth.
I've gone to cleaning my whole body with this mix and my skin is so nice-unlike usually where I can scratch my name into my legs from the white, dry, flakey skin.
I was also getting awful infected hangnails on my hands and feet anytime I gave myself a little pedicure or bit off a hangnail! It was worrying me! Since I switched, that hasn't been happening anymore.
Don't give up! Use a vinegar rinse.
post #43 of 435
2/7/04 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ja mama
And I'm done with the acv (don't like the smell) and my rosemary eo water rinse is working great.
I did the Baking Soda... and rinsed with BRAGG's Organic Apple Cider Vinegar - and I can't believe the bad smell... (maybe it was too old ) Anyway I can still smell it in my hair... and it's been a week! I washed it with a Shampoo Bar 2 days ago and the smell is there!

what does rosemary EO mean?

Edited to add: I just washed my hair with the Shampoo Bar (2nd time) and I must say.... my hair (as smelly as it has been) is in MUCH better shape thanks to this experiment. No more Poo for me.
post #44 of 435
2/7/04 at 3:20pm
rosemary eo = rosemary essential oil
I used about 5 drops of oil in 24 oz of water, it's lasted three rinses. You could also just boil some fresh rosemary in water, let it cool down, and strain out the refuse. The scent is faint but reminds me of my herb garden. Rosemary is supposed to be an invigorating scent in aromatherapy, but I find it quite calming.
post #45 of 435
2/7/04 at 4:30pm
I was just talking to my mom and she said that when they were younger in England people with dark hair rinsed with malt vinegar. They washed their hair once a week with soap (a carbolic soap she said) and rinsed with the vinegar. Blonde haired people used lemon juice.

I don't know if malt vinegar is available in the States.

For those of you who are bothered by the vinegar smell, are you diluting it with water? You only need a bit of vinegar poured into a 2 cup measure of water. My hair doesn't smell of vinegar at all.
post #46 of 435
2/7/04 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Island Mommy
For those of you who are bothered by the vinegar smell, are you diluting it with water? You only need a bit of vinegar poured into a 2 cup measure of water. My hair doesn't smell of vinegar at all.
Oh, I had to DILUTE IT!!!! :LOL I think I dumped a straight cup into my hair! :LOL
post #47 of 435
2/7/04 at 6:06pm
Hi Ladies

Wow! you sure all talk alot

I'm going to try and answer several things in this post:

Madrone - the witch hazel I used is distilled witch hazel (no alcohol in it - that's an ingredient to watch out for if you buy it already bottled).

However, if you have access to the herb you could try making an infusion or decoction and see how that works; it seems a shame to waste an opportunity to play in the kitchen! - I'm not sure what sort of texture the dried 'herb' is - is it very woody and stemmy or is it more like a dried culinary herb or the sort of texture you would make tea from?

If it is the former then you would make a decoction - a method more suitable for the harder parts of the plant like the bark, berries and roots:

Add 30g (1 oz) or 60g 2 oz of fresh hearbs to 750 ml (3 cups) of cold water.
Bring to the boil in a saucepan.
Simmer uncovered to reduce.
Strain and bottle.

if the latter then an infusion will do -this method is suitable for extracting medicinal componds form leaves and flowers:

Add 500 ml (2 cups) of just boiled water to a total of 30g (1 oz) dried herb, or 60g of fresh herb
Cover and steep for 10 minutes, then strain the infusion through a clean muslin cloth or tea strainer. (just like making a cup of tea!!)

You could keep either in the 'fridge for a week or two - let your nose guide you.

In answer to your questions, the reason I shampood so much before was because my hair 'needed' it. It would get VERY oily and lank and would kind of hang in 'rats tails' as my mother used to kindly point out.
It took me a good couple of months to break the cycle of more washing equals more oil being produced by the body - I think you were really close too, at a month and a half - have another go!!

-----------------------------

Hi Lisa - advice as to getting over the 'hump period'?? Hmmm, a will of iron maybe, scarves and hats and basically being accepting of the way you look and feel in the knowledge that EVENTUALLY your body is going to thank you for it.

I kind of feel that when people are asking this question, they are asking for the 'magick product' that will end all oiliness and flakiness, but that isn't the case. Firstly there is no one thing that is right for everybody and I think that 'hump period' is a time of great seeking within for the answers and perhaps a shift in awareness or attitude.

It's much like 'coming off' anything else - cigarettes, coffee, sugar - we all expect a withdrawl or some detoxing and it is no different with our hair - extra oiliness, flaking, stinkiness, dreaming about sweet-smelling bottles of shampoo, shaking everytime you go to the bathroom and have to walk past your husband's bottle of shampoo (HA- only kidding!!), but you get the picture. I guess the most important thing is to question the reason *why* you are doing this, and to use that as your motivation.

For me, I had paid good attention to my diet for many years and suddenly I realised that 60% of what we put on our skin gets absorbed into the bloodstream, then I read the crap I was putting on my hair and body and the decision was made - plus, being pregnant with my child I was looking at ways to keep her as 'unprocessed' as possible, so figured I needed to try anything I was thinking of putting her through. I didn't want to be slathering chemicals on my skin if it meant they would eventually get through to her. That questioning of myself, my motitivations and the research I did about chemicals was enough to keep me going through those 'would-you-like-to-fry-an-egg-on-my-head kinda days. It depends which means more to you - long term health or short term vanity??

Oh, talking of eggs - has anyone used them as a shampoo or conditioner - they work suprisingly well

I guess I'm a bit of of a paranoid one really - I seriously believe that shampoos are *designed* to strip our hair, in order to make us produce more oil and viola - we are trapped in the cycle of 'needing' to wash our hair. Just like I believe that washing the vernix off our babies is a ploy to get us supporting the drugs companies and that so called 'mild baby products' strip the skin, so that we need to buy the moisturiser and then we need to buy the oil, and then that screws up the delicate balance of our child's skin, so then they get eczema and hey presto - steroid medication; just as the drugs companies want. but, that's just me and my very overactive immagination!!.........

I'm not familiar with Mothering, no - but I believe we can get it in the UK by subscription. I read and have written for 'The Mother' are any of you familiar with that?

As to whether the baking soda / vinegar will interfere with the natural balance of oils I can't say for certain - I'm not a chemist or anything like that, but I feel we have a better chance using this than we do using harsh chemicals that they put into mainstream hair products. If you are concerned I would seriously recommend you growing some soapwort - it grows like mint, even the most black thumbed of us can't fail and it makes a wonderful mild cleanser for body, hair, and fabrics!

-----------------

Someone elso asked if the theory goes that you can go without ever washing your hair. When I said I had not shampoo, I meant no shop-bought product - sorry for any ambiguity there!

I use the bicarb and cider vinegar (or lemon juice, or fresh rosemary or pineapple juice - whichever I have to hand) a couple of time a week. I believe that in my utopian world where we eat local, seasonal organic food and there are no pollutants in the atmosphere, where we have adequate exercise and rest and are not plagued by stress, then yes, just grooming would be sufficient for sweet-smelling, glossy hair, but we don't live in that world I have created so I think we do need something with *some* sort of alkaline / acid product.

My brother once decided to stop shampooing, so he shaved his hair off before going on holiday, and just used water to rinse; after 6 months it looked no better than when he was using commercial products (he suffers from dandruff), so like I said before to Lisa, there is no one answer for everybody. It's just a case of questioning your motivations for going no-poo and when you are convinced it is for you; for whatever reason, just experiementing to find the best for *you* as an individual. On our case, my hair responds best to green clay (but we aren't financially flush, so bicarb is the next best and much cheaper), for dh it is soapwort. Just play and have fun! I also feel that diet has a HUGE role to play in the state of our hair

-----------------

And the lady who threw up - was that Michelle?? Michelle, perhaps a rosemary and mint infusion might suit you (especially lovely if your hair is dark) or lemon juice (use like vinegar - say 1-2 tbsp in a couple litres warm water) or pineapple juice (used straight out the carton - make sure it is sugar-free though eh??!!).

blessings all you inspiring, inspired, wise, creative, fragrant mamas
Rachelle
post #48 of 435
2/7/04 at 6:10pm


I think I may have picked up on something here. There aren't some of you using NEAT vinegar on your hair are there??

PLEASE dilute it - 1-2 tbsp vinegar to 1-2 litres warm water, no stronger than that.

blessings and glossy, healthy manes to you all
Rachelle
post #49 of 435
2/7/04 at 6:32pm
Me again

I'm just curious as to whether anyone here has dry hair - I've heard lots of people mentioning oily hair - anyone with dry hair?

blessings
Rachelle
post #50 of 435
2/7/04 at 6:47pm
I have gone 17 days and feeliong great. I had noticed so muich less hair loss and then I read about it in the last post so I told my dh (who is SO worried he will bald) and he used BS last night for the first time. My SIL is also having dandruff issues and major hair loss problems - we have her on the fence (she is NOT crunchy at all so eating organic food, which we recently convinced her to do, is already a major life change - she'll come around soon, though).

I use BS/ACV twice a week. And some Rosemarey also. I also have put some lemon EO directly on the ends of my haor after a shower to keep down the dry ends and to avoid getting static.

Megan
post #51 of 435
2/7/04 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by houseofstrauss
And the lady who threw up - was that Michelle?? Michelle, perhaps a rosemary and mint infusion might suit you (especially lovely if your hair is dark) or lemon juice (use like vinegar - say 1-2 tbsp in a couple litres warm water) or pineapple juice (used straight out the carton - make sure it is sugar-free though eh??!!).

blessings all you inspiring, inspired, wise, creative, fragrant mamas
Rachelle
:LOL Hi from the lady who threw up. Thanks for the ideas! I have brown hair with natural blondish or reddish highlights depending on the lighting, time of the year, sun exposure etc. I did dilute the ACV, it was just a glug in a 32oz cup of warm water but I just could not take the smell.

I will try out those ideas... thank you!!

Quote:
Originally posted by myrhhmaid
busybusymama, I am using plain vinegar-it's all I have right now. It's working great. Just like another mom here said- after just BS my hair feels clumpy and like it will be very hard to brush through-then I pour over the diluted vinegar and it all smoothes out and feels so nice.
I'm loving this! I'm washing my hair with bs/vinegar every other or every 3rd day and my oilyness is really evened out.
I can try that too!
post #52 of 435
2/7/04 at 7:36pm
T
Rachelle - We are going to be moving at the end of the month to a house that has a garden and I'll finally be able to garden again. I had soapwart seeds in the states along with many others, but I gave all except some marshmallow to a friend before we moved here. Didn't think they would make it through if I had a lot of seeds. I'm already thinking of the garden and what I'll be planting. But I really don't know good European sources for seeds. I know of one company in the UK from the US, but it doesn't seem like they have very much in herbs nor much in choice on veggies. I would purchase from Territorial and Nichol's Herb Seed in the states. They are both pretty organic and have lots of variety. What are some good sources of seeds in the UK? I really know the varieties I like in English and would prefer to order from a company with English catalogs.
post #53 of 435
2/7/04 at 8:38pm
I actually saw soapwort plants in the herb dept of our nursery today. So if I were to grow it, how do you turn it into something that would help my hair? Does it have to be in a container? Someone said it grows like mint, which is so invasive!!!
PS I am having a good hair day today and I didn't do anything except brush it. I didn't get a shower, but for the first time don't look all matted and greasy.
post #54 of 435
2/7/04 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally posted by houseofstrauss
I'm just curious as to whether anyone here has dry hair - I've heard lots of people mentioning oily hair - anyone with dry hair?
Well, I had hair like straw before starting this experiment... after a few days of using nothing I saw great improvement, then my hair felt extremely oily and "dirty". Then I started using baking soda to help "clean it."

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I agree with you that shampoos are probably designed to strip the hair of everything... creating a need for more beauty products.
post #55 of 435
2/8/04 at 4:16am
Hi Madrone

cool news about moving to a house with a garden

Unfortunately I can't point you in the direction of seed places in the Uk - I was fortunate enough to beg a cutting from someone regarding the soapwort

I have seen a place called 'Nicky's seeds' - (I'm not sure how to put links into posts, so google it and if you can't get it to come up get back to me and I'll figure out how to add a link ) I will definately be looking to order from her next time I want anything. Have you tried HDRA?

HTH
Rachelle
post #56 of 435
2/8/04 at 4:29am
Hi Ja mama

I began growing my soapwort in a container, but it didn't especially thrive, so I have now put it into one of the beds where it is much happier - however it *is* invasive. My way of thinking is that if it isn't soapwort taking over, it will be a 'weed' of somesort, so I would rather have something useful all over the place Perhaps a really big container might do the trick??

As to using it - you grab a couple of handfuls of it - stem, leaf and flowers if it is in flower. Cut or tear it up into pieces about 1/2 inch long; my kitchen chemistry is very rough you understand !! and put it in a pan with enough water to cover. bring to the boil and simmer for ten to twenty minutes, cool and strain.

Then, you can use it as it is (no good unless you have short hair really), or you can thicken it in some way - last time we used it, I think we added arrowroot, (I'll check with dh when he surfaces; on second thoughts it might have been agar) much like we were making a sauce from it. Also, we got hold of one of those cappucino makers - a glass jar with a plunger in it - a bit like you get in a caffitiere and we aggitated the mix - it was amazing to see the suds we ended up with. We also like to add a handful of mint to the decoction - soapwort smells a bit like old cabbage when it is boiling! and just be aware that I believe the root is poisonous - I was going to write 'mildly poisonous'! but that doesn't make sense does it - perhaps you know what I mean

Glad to hear you are having a good hair day

blessings
Rachelle
post #57 of 435
2/8/04 at 4:37am
Thanks for the feedback Tanibani

I'm just curious, because my 3 year old daughter has dry hair at the back of her head (we've never used anything on her hair - not even the bicarb / ACV) and I'm wondering what to do about it, if anything; I'm convinced it is not lack of oils in her diet because her skin is so great and her scalp is ok. Actually I'm sure it is because she still has 'baby fluff' - like me she was totally bald until 18 months and yesterday she had her FIRST hair trim - so this hair at the back of her head is her oldest hair; she never really rubbed it all of like many babes do!!

I think I might make some sort of hair 'dressing' for her - cocoa butter, beeswax, frankinscense, sandalwood and rose perhaps - any other ideas ladies?? I can't bear the smell of coconut btw, so don't even go there

Maybe an EFA suppliment won't go a miss - it can only be beneficial to *some* part of her gorgeous body/mind after all.

blessings all
Rachelle
post #58 of 435
2/8/04 at 4:40am
OK, I'm trying to understand the chemistry behind what we're doing. Any great chemists out there who can help me?

Here's what I know (or think I know)

1. As most dirt and body soils are slightly acidic, most good cleaners are at least slightly alkaline.

2. Baking soda is considered a mild alkalie with a pH of about 8.

3. Vinegar is a moderately strong acid with a pH of about 3.

4. Neutral pH is 7.

5. When a product carries a ph of 2.5 to 3.5 it will close (compact) the cuticle layer of the hair. The result is shiny, bouncy hair. (I picked up this info on a hair products website)

So, I guess we're using the baking soda to clean our hair. I thought we were using the vinegar to compensate for the alkalinity of the baking soda (ie. to return the hair to a neutral pH) but the last point suggests that it actually closes the cuticle layer of the hair.

Interestingly, I notice that eggs have a pH of 7.8 which I guess is why some people have suggested using them as a cleaner. My chart also says seawater has a pH of 8.3 which is almost the same as baking soda. Would this make it just as good for washing hair? Wait, now I'm confused. My chart says seawater has a pH of 8.3 but salt-water has a pH of 7. What's the difference between seawater and salt-water??

Soaps and detergents are surfactants. When surfactants are mixed with water and they come in contact with oil and grease, the oil is emulsified (ie. it stays mixed with the water or spreads throughout the water in tiny droplets). It can then be rinsed out with the water.

So, I guess this is why hair gets dried out when it is washed with soap or shampoo. When the shampoo/water is rinsed out it takes the dirt and natural hair oils with it. When there is no surfactant present, oil and water do not mix.

It seems that the trick is to remove the dirt from the hair without removing the oil. Now I'll just have to research whether baking soda is a surfactant...but it's too late now.

I'm getting a bit confused with all this so I'd love for someone to add their 2 cents.
post #59 of 435
2/8/04 at 9:41am
for static, i have always used aluminum combs (i think aluminum- there is a logic to it, and it is the more difficult material to find combs made in, something about conductivity). the one brand i have found that makes aluminum combs is acca kappa (italian maker).

i mentioned to my mother the cornstarch, and she was horrified- she remembered that as a girl, when she was sick, instead of bathing her, her mother would brush some such powder through her hair. she hated it. but i tried it anyway, and it did the trick.
post #60 of 435
2/8/04 at 2:53pm
Who has found a good boar hair brush?

I found one at Kroger but it was NASTY and cheap!

I am on day 2 now. HUGE deal for me to go this long!!!! I am doing fine though! Hair looks & feels normal. Today I just rinsed with water and my shower was SO fast. It felt so weird to hop in and out!!

Kimberly
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