Teaching good table manners when DH has none

[Katico]

I am assuming manners fall under discipline in a way...

DD is only 4 months old but I am giving lots of thought to the way I want our family to share meals etc.

I have no intention of worrying about mess/"manners" when she is first learning to eat but once it is time to introduce the concepts to her......I am at a loss with what to do about DH

He really does have some appalling table habits - chewing with the mouth open, never using a knife to cut- just hacking with his fork, never uses his napkin, somehow manages to get food all over the table, etc etc. (Thank you, MIL and FIL.....)

We have been together for 10 years and I have never, ever said anything about any of this - I just didn't feel like it was my place, as a partner, to correct an adult's manners.

But, I can already hear it : "But Daddy doesn't chew with his mouth closed!"

I don't want to be condescending to him in any way in the process, but I would die if our kids grew up with that lack of social graces!!

Has anyone dealt with this? Suggestions?

[NellieKatz]

I have no suggestions but wanted to say you're not alone! My DH is the same way...that hacking with the fork made me laugh because he will really struggle with the fork to cut something, making the table jiggle wildly sometimes, when really a knife would've handled it smoothly! LOL And when he needs to get a last bit onto his fork, instead of using a utensil, he'll use his fingers. Ugh!!

I have no idea except to keep using good manners myself. Oh, and there was a cute show on "Charter on Demand" (from our cable company)...it was for kids and it was designed like a quiz show, and it was all about manners. My son loved it! Presented like a game, he was eager to see how he measured up, and was proud when he got the questions right. But this was at age 5. And since then, the show has been removed from On Demand and he's forgotten half of it. But the idea is that maybe there will be a video or show like that for your daughter when the time comes.

But in the mean time, I try to remember that our dinnertime is to be a time of talking and bonding, and less about behaving too strictly. I have no problem teaching my son manners, but some of the fussier stuff can really wait until there's a need. My main concern is having him think of our dinnertimes as warm & pleasant family time. (I'm pleased that we always eat dinner together as a family; I've heard some people don't do that regularly.)

As for my husband, sometimes when he's poking his food with his fingers I will give him an icy-yet-funny stare, and he'll sort of comically freeze like a deer in the headlights as if to say "you caught me." But he's unlikely to change. And in the grand scheme of things I suspect it will all work out just fine. Manners are important to me but I also try and keep it in perspective. (one of the few things I DO keep in perspective, if you see my other rantings on this forum!) :-)

[2xy]

Personally, I would just sit my DH down one day and matter-of-factly say that you'd like to discuss how the two of you plan to teach table manners. You don't have to be condescending. Just say that table manners are very important to you, and that you get the impression that they aren't that important to him...and see how it goes from there.

[sweetpea_119]

My DH also seems to take pride in never using a knife or napkin...that said, my kids & I talk about manners at nearly every meal. It's not even me bringing it up that often, but having a 4 year old & nearly 3 year old, they love to ask those "why" questions.

I figure that they're mine to teach as freely as I'd like for breakfast & lunch since DH is at work for those meals. And at dinner, I feel free to correct them as needed since I'm not actually pointing out anyone else's "failings" in the manners department.

I really don't want to correct an adult, either. And I've never sat down with DH to talk about what manners to teach nor in what manner to teach the manners I figured that it was just my job as the momma to get it done to the best of my abilities & that's what I've been doing.

[lolar2]

With men sometimes, if you give them a steak knife instead of a regular knife they're less likely to do the hack-with-a-fork thing. I've seen that with a lot of men (my family gave a lot of parties growing up).

[Theoretica]

Ugh. Husbands. Table manners.

Ugh.

If you figure out the answer to this, patent it and start selling books....you'll make millions LOL

[InMediasRes]

Geez, tell me about it. MIL is very very feminist, so she was very anti-chivalry type manners, like holding the door for people, etc. However, she also apparently didn't bother to teach anyone table manners either, and all 3 of her sons have terrible table manners. Not just the hacking with a fork, but getting salt and butter all over the table, burping without excusing yourself, blowing your nose at the table, coughing without covering your mouth, and my personal favorite - spitting out bits of gristle or bones from fish (which I do discreetly in a napkin) right onto your plate in the loudest and most visible way possible.

Now, I do understand that some manners things are kind of a gender sterotype set up, but I hold the door for ANYONE who is coming through it or who is behind me. I always say excuse me when I pass in front of someone who is looking at a shelf at the grocery, etc. My family used tons of manners. The door holding thing I have addressed with DH because he will let the door slam in my face while I am holding the baby and the toddler's hand with the diaper bag on my shoulder without even thinking. The table manners, not so much. I have noticed that if I just correct DS's manners, DH sort of follows suit, although I'm not really aiming at him. Mostly right now we are working on sitting down in your chair and not putting feet on the table, and DH is good at those .

[GuildJenn]

I'd just teach your child and leave it between your child and your husband - eventually your child will probably say "well HE DOESN"T DO THAT" and then you can sweetly let him deal with it.

[Llyra]

Honestly, if it's important to you, I would approach your DH when he's in an okay mood and not busy, and tell him there's something you've been thinking about, and you'd like to know what he thinks, and tell him your concerns. Try to be non-threatening about it, so that he doesn't feel backed into a corner. But be clear that it's something that bothers you, and then specifically tell him the things he can do to help. Use lots of "I" statements, and don't go on too long about it. I would be like, "dude, now that we have DC, I've gotten so I'm thinking a lot about how we're going to teach him about courtesy and manners, and how we're going to discipline him, and stuff like that, when he's ready. One thing that's really important to me is table manners, and that's not really your thing, I know. I'm worried that if DC hears me saying one thing, and sees you doing another thing, he's going to get really confused about what he should do. What do you think about that?"

I believe that in a marriage when something like this comes up, it's best to deal with it directly and honestly. I find that if I try and ignore something, thinking he's an adult and it's his business, I wind up becoming resentful. And if I try and deal with it indirectly, with comments directly to the kids, and if I try hinting around, HE becomes resentful, because he feels nagged. It's far better, I think, to say something about it straight out, at a good time.

[philomom]

Your dh may pick up on you teaching your child and just naturally do a little better. You can also seat your child NOT straight across from Daddy so they don't see the worst of it... ie, mouth open while chewing and such. There's also some nice little Bearenstain Bears book about manners that gets the point across pretty well. Maybe Dh can read this to your child when the time comes. They can be enlightened together.

Don't give up on this. I'm 100% positive that mannerly children are better liked by teachers and coaches. Good luck.

[Surfacing]

For sure, manners are good life skills! Dh is from what I like to call Cave Man School of Manners. He also shoves things on his fork with his fingers, eats salad with his fingers , doesn't use a napkin and walks around with his meal on his face, doesn't use a knife.

Oops baby crying must run, but will say that I am teaching my children manners and it's rubbing off on dh some. We just talk about it as practicing good habits. I will thank dh for taking his plate to the sink when he remembers. But otherwise I lay off him most of the time. The kids are getting it.

[Mrs.Burke]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I'd just teach your child and leave it between your child and your husband - eventually your child will probably say "well HE DOESN"T DO THAT" and then you can sweetly let him deal with it.

or better else, teach the child and then let the child comment on hubby's manners and by that way he'd learn. :

[russsk]

Originally Posted by Surfacing

For sure, manners are good life skills! Dh is from what I like to call Cave Man School of Manners. He also shoves things on his fork with his fingers, eats salad with his fingers , doesn't use a napkin and walks around with his meal on his face, doesn't use a knife.

My DH also eats salad with his fingers! He's also been known to eat mashed potatoes with his fingers. For him its a cultural thing - he grew up in the Middle East, where eating with fingers was the norm. That excuse only gets him so far, though, as he's been in the states for almost 20 years.

At the very least he knows how to behave at the table, and I am not embarrassed when we go out. He chews with his mouth closed, puts his napkin on his lap, uses a knife, etc. He just chooses to forgo some manners at home. He's trying to model better behavior for DS, at least. When he remembers.

[Katico]

Thank you all so much! Nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this!

I think you all have had great ideas. I have been trying to discuss openly with DH the fact that family dinners are super important to me, that sharing a meal together at a table at least once a day is a fundamental family building thing. His family always ate whatever, whenever, in front of the TV (might explain the fork hacking - hard to use a knife AND fork AND hold onto your plate in your lap). Maybe I will work some mention of manners into those convos.

I also like the reminder that I will be eating breakfast, lunch and snacks with the kids but without him and that is lots of time to work on it without a bad example

And I also like the idea of DH reading to them about manners - sneaky

And trying not to sit them across from him - very good!

Sigh. Sometimes I feel like I have to parent my partner

[laohaire]

:

Uh-oh. I apparently have terrible table manners. I don't chew with my mouth open, but we only use napkins for messy meals, I reach across the table to get whatever, and I only use a knife if we're eating meat (and that's not frequent).

Well, this was a good learning opportunity! Now I'll have to consider this....

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by laohaire

:

Uh-oh. I apparently have terrible table manners. I don't chew with my mouth open, but we only use napkins for messy meals, I reach across the table to get whatever, and I only use a knife if we're eating meat (and that's not frequent).

Well, this was a good learning opportunity! Now I'll have to consider this....

I think for me, although I prefer a certain level of good manners at home and all that, the critical pieces that I want to pass on to my kid are:

1. That he KNOWS what good manners are and how to do all the important bits (eventually, say by age 12). Preferably, that he also is used to the basics enough that it is comfortable and not something he has to concentrate on.
2. That he has an understanding of which situations really require manners.
3. That he understands that the base of manners is respect. I have seen a very cultured, mannerly person put someone at ease by doing something informal and quote-unquote unmannered at a table and I think that is the height of good manners.

While I think decent to good manners at home most meals is one of the easiest ways to achieve this, I don't think it's the only way.

We plan to have formal meals from time to time (in fun ways; we used to do this with my niece and nephews) where we really zoom in and focus on standard etiquette, soup spoons, Russian service, etc. etc. Our table is reasonably relaxed but not disorderly.

I don't care if people use knives a particular way though, I'll admit. I've never noticed.

[laohaire]

That is true, if I were dining at a business luncheon or something, I would be using a napkin and so on.

Although, habit can be difficult to overcome. I frequently have my elbows on the table. Just comfortable to me, and I might do it without thinking even on a formal occasion (though I'd probably catch myself as well).

I never thought about the using a fork as a knife thing. I mean, it didn't occur to me why it could be rude (I never noticed shaking the table or whatever, which would definitely be annoying to others). Then again, maybe I don't shake the table doing that, the only food I can think of that I ever "cut" would be potatoes, which are pretty easy to do with a fork unless undercooked.

[Katico]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I never thought about the using a fork as a knife thing. I mean, it didn't occur to me why it could be rude (I never noticed shaking the table or whatever, which would definitely be annoying to others). Then again, maybe I don't shake the table doing that, the only food I can think of that I ever "cut" would be potatoes, which are pretty easy to do with a fork unless undercooked.

I certainly don't use my knife to cut EVERYTHING when it is just a casual family meal, but just imagine my DH struggling to hack a piece of chicken off with the side of his fork instead of easily cutting it. Makes no sense to me. By my standards, fork cutting is fine for soft foods (i.e. lasagna or veg) during a casual meal but if it is a formal meal or with guests, I would use a knife for most of that as well.

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I think for me, although I prefer a certain level of good manners at home and all that, the critical pieces that I want to pass on to my kid are:

1. That he KNOWS what good manners are and how to do all the important bits (eventually, say by age 12). Preferably, that he also is used to the basics enough that it is comfortable and not something he has to concentrate on.
2. That he has an understanding of which situations really require manners.
3. That he understands that the base of manners is respect. I have seen a very cultured, mannerly person put someone at ease by doing something informal and quote-unquote unmannered at a table and I think that is the height of good manners.

While I think decent to good manners at home most meals is one of the easiest ways to achieve this, I don't think it's the only way.

We plan to have formal meals from time to time (in fun ways; we used to do this with my niece and nephews) where we really zoom in and focus on standard etiquette, soup spoons, Russian service, etc. etc. Our table is reasonably relaxed but not disorderly.

I don't care if people use knives a particular way though, I'll admit. I've never noticed.

This is great!! I come from a small town, rural kind of family, quite casual, but my parents felt it was a vital skill to know how to eat in any situation - they never wanted us to feel like we didn't know what to do. They used teach us at home and occasionally take us for fancier meals so we could practice. It has served me very well. DH, on the other hand, has no clue what fork is for what.

It is totally about respect. You expressed it so well. Makes me think of another vital bit of etiquette - DH never learned that you wait until everyone has recieved their food before starting to eat your own!

[Encinalien]

Originally Posted by lolar2

With men sometimes, if you give them a steak knife instead of a regular knife they're less likely to do the hack-with-a-fork thing. I've seen that with a lot of men (my family gave a lot of parties growing up).

I was about to ask the same thing do you make sure that the table is completely set every single time exactly the same way? Ie a napkin and silverware for every body weither they use it or not? Ds 22 mo insists on a napkin if I dare sit down to eat and forget to give everyone a napkin (he also tells me "purse" or phone if I'm about to walk out the door without it. Anyway sometimes he doesn't use his silver ware but he expects there to be silverware, a napkin, and a cup by his plate every meal. They do copy everything though. Way early dh blew his nose in a napkin and ds picked up his napkin, covered his nose and mouth and made a raspberry.

[plunky]

Good ideas in this thread. I'd try to turn the situation around. Like if your DH is a very safe driver and you are not...how would you like your DH to approach training someone to drive without criticizing you while doing it?

I have fairly awful table manners although I was taught how to do it properly. If your DH ends up eating at the table to help you out here...please thank him for that. I hate organized meals and the forced conversations that come as a result of them.