Have I ruined our chances?!?

[Carolyn_mtl]

I am a new mom to a 5 day old newborn. She was nursing pretty well for the first 2 days. Her latch was good, no pain for me, everything seemed to be perfect. Then my milk came in overnight into day 3. I wasn't able to get her to nurse well throughout that night, and by the morning, my breasts were so huge and hard that she couldn't do anything with them. I pumped and dumped the milk as an attempt to reduced the engorgement so she could eat. Nothing worked. We had a horrible day 3 where she went a good 12 hours without any real nursing. Finally I gave in and gave her a bottle that I had pumped. I know, I shouldn't have introduced a bottle at 3 days old, but she was starving and I felt like I was torturing my baby. With every attempt at the breast she became frantic and was screaming, red and hot. So now here we are 2 days later, I've managed to breastfeed her well maybe 2 times, otherwise its a frantic hour and a half long heart breaking episode that ends in me giving her a bottle of pumped milk.
Throughout my pregnancy I always envisioned breastfeeding being "easy" with no problems. It honestly started out that way, but now I feel like a complete failure.
So any advice would be great. Have I ruined her by confusing her with the bottle so young? Do I just say, too bad no more bottles and fight with her until she gives in, (and honestly how would I even be able to do that, I've been in tears every time we try to nurse). I cannot handle seeing her in such a desperate and frantic situation.
HELP!

[woodchick]

You haven't ruined your chances! Many babies have bottles early on and then go on to nurse. My first daughter wasn't put to the breast until she was 12 days old (NICU, tube and then bottle fed) and she is still nursing at 3+.

Here is kellymom.com's site regarding engorgement, you may find the tips helpful.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...gorgement.html

Personally, I would try to nurse her often, trying to get her to latch on before you feel too engorged. Try the tips on kellymom and definitely always offer breast before bottle.

The engorgement will pass and if you keep at it your little on can go back to the breast.

Good luck, and congrats on your new gal!

[womenswisdom]

Please call your local La Leche League or a lactation consultatant! You can ask in the Finding Your Tribe for a good one, because they are not all created equal. You haven't ruined anything - you just need some knowledgeable support. The LLL leaders will many times (here, anyways) come to your house and help you and the LLL meetings have been invaluable with helping me to overcome nursing issues. GL!

[Picturesque]

You have NOT ruined your chances! You still have plenty of opportunity to work this out. Follow the suggestions of PP and you will do great!

[readytobedone]

no! you can totally come back from this. babies get bottles/pacifiers all the time in the hospital and go on to nurse. i never latched on to my mom until i was 3 weeks old, and i nursed till i was 1.

you DO need a lactation consultant, though. maybe the oversupply is freaking your baby out? can you let down into a towel or something and then latch her on once the worst of it is over? and try not to wait till she is starving, because then it is even harder to latch them. i second the recommendation to feed frequently (like offer every 2 hours during the day, and every 4 at night--unless baby cues hunger sooner, of course!).

you might look into block feeding, too, to help with the oversupply.

[aylaanne]

First, you have NOT ruined your chances. It is hard to latch onto an engorged breast!

Have you tried pumping, then offering the baby the breast? That might relieve some of the initial engorgement. Also, if you do give her a bottle, try giving her only half of what you would normally give her, and then offer the breast. Taking the edge off of her hunger might help her latch, since some babies get frantic at feeding time.

I third, fourth, and fifth the suggestion that you get an LLL leader or LC involved. Many hospitals have weekly breastfeeding clinics or "support groups" that are staffed with LCs, where you can get some advice for free. Also, in the support group setting, you're around other moms who may also have some advice.

Good luck! It sounds like you're doing a great job.

[Heba]

Yes yes yes to everything the others have posted.
You might also like to try reverse pressure softening prior to offering the breast, which softens the areola making it easier for babe to latch on. Check out this article here: http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAprMay03p38.html
and/or this one here (with illustrations): http://www.health-e-learning.com/art...an_ver2005.pdf

Good luck! You can do it .

[buttercups.nest]

Your story is an exact replica of mine!!! Only difference was, I didn't know there was so much support for moms having trouble We ended up formula feeding before we left the hospital, and I gave up breastfeeding by 2 weeks old Since my daughter was 15months we've been going to La Leche League meetings and here's what I've learned that had I known about it, would've tried.

- try feeding milk from a cup, spoon, etc rather than a bottle
- try baby led breastfeeding (lean back in a rocking chair, or lie on some pillows on the couch, shirt off, and put baby on your tummy. and then just leave her....make sure the room is relaxed, you are relaxed, and baby is not too hungry. see what happens...if you try this I would love to hear of the results!)
- maybe try breastfeeding laying down, would this help with the fast flow?

Again, I haven't breastfed yet so I don't really know....but these are things I've learned in the last year that I definitely would've tried. As far as the baby led breastfeeding goes....I've learned that coming straight out of the womb babies find it awkward to nurse in a cradle position, which is why baby led breastfeeding is helpful until they get their latch worked out. I hope that makes sense!

Keep us posted on how things turn out for you!

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by buttercups.nest

- try baby led breastfeeding (lean back in a rocking chair, or lie on some pillows on the couch, shirt off, and put baby on your tummy. and then just leave her....make sure the room is relaxed, you are relaxed, and baby is not too hungry. see what happens...if you try this I would love to hear of the results!)
- maybe try breastfeeding laying down, would this help with the fast flow?

I agree with what everyone has said, but especially this. Here is a great link: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/bla.html

If nothing else, it will help you both relax and bond, while still encouraging the BF relationship to continue. I think that's important. Also, bathing with the baby is supposed to help in the same way (sort of like starting over from the birth).

Good luck, you can totally do it!

[Carolyn_mtl]

Thank you everyone for your supportive words. I've called and left a message with my local LLL, hopefully I'll hear back soon.
This morning lo was able to nurse (albeit with some pain) for about 15 minutes. She seems to latch on to one breast better than another. I'm still pumping often, and tried feeding her with a dropper instead of the bottle, but that didn't go over too well. So I give her some bottle, try the breast, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Hopefully this gets resolved soon because I really envision myself breastfeeding her for years, and I would be upset for so many reasons if that isn't the case.
The newest issue which is really causing trouble is she won't stay awake long enough to eat! She is such a deep sleeper, no matter what I try, she falls back to sleep as soon as she is near my breast (removed clothes, tickled lips, put some milk on her lips..) Nothing seems to keep her awake. I'm worried she isn't getting enough to drink, no heavy wet diapers, just tiny amount of pee and no poop since the hospital..but ALOT of gas..

[Epona]

I just wanted to say, that it's ok to cry. I remember those days, and the baby would cry, and then you would cry, and you felt worse when you were crying. And it made nursing harder. Just let it flow. It's ok for the baby to cry out of frustration, and it's ok for you to cry out of frustration. Sometimes you just need to hear that.

[leila1213]

I hope LLL can help with all that! It's possible she's a tiny bit dehydrated and/or jaundiced, which could be exacerbating your problems. Have you tried cool washcloths to keep her awake?

[Pepper44]

It's so hard to establish a nursing relationship at first. We struggled for a good 6 weeks before we got into a routine and my DD would nurse happily.

I had to use a tiny pic line and a syringe to feed my DD at first, when she wouldn't latch on. You can call the nursery at the hospital and ask for one, that's what we did and they set one out for us to come pick up. Then your baby sucks on your finger with the line/tube on it. It's called finger feeding.

I hope an LLL leader comes to help you soon!!

[Dar]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_mtl

I'm worried she isn't getting enough to drink, no heavy wet diapers, just tiny amount of pee and no poop since the hospital..but ALOT of gas..

This is worrisome. How much pee is a "tiny amount"? Are you using sposies or cloth - with sposies, IMO it's easier to underestimate how much your baby is peeing. Is there a strong smell to the urine? Is she peeing less than every 6 hours or 4 times a day?

If she is becoming dehydrated, I would try to feed her some breastmilk with a syringe or small cup ASAP...

The more you pump, the more milk your breasts will make, so really, you want to *not* pump. You can hand express a small amount of milk to make it easier for your baby to latch on, or stand in a warm shower, but real pumping will just prolong your problems. I second the block feeding suggestion, too, and some of the positioning ideas.

[Carolyn_mtl]

Thank you all again
I never heard back from LLL, but then again, it is labour day weekend. Things are MUCH better. She's peeing much more (using cloth diapers and pee doesn't have much of a smell). She's had two large poo's (still dark brown, but liquidy). She's eating quite well, although she has a harder time with my left breast. I haven't used a bottle in 15 hours and I won't go back. She now seems to prefer my breast, thank god I haven't pumped since midnight, and I don't think I will, she's eating more often and is seeming much more alter.
Again, thank you to everyone. I love MDC

[jaylily]

I remember getting engorged after too after my milk came in, with my son. I didn't realize that was what had happened at first and every time I tried to put him on the side that was engorged, he would cry and cry and cry... and I cried, too. When I realized what was happening I asked for advice and the advice given me was to try to nurse him as much as possible on that side, so I did, even though it was hard. My supply was just fine for several months, so I don't think you've ruined your chances at all!

I just read your last post - glad things are better!!!

[leila1213]

Yay!!!

[calebsmommy25]

So happy to hear things are going a little bit better. Building a breastfeeding relationship takes some time and hardwork, but both of you will get the hang of it soon! Those beginning days are difficult, but it sounds like you are on your way!

Congrats on your new bundle!!! :