H1N1/Swine Flu Vax - September '09 - Page 2

[A&A]

Originally Posted by carmel23

I question this doctor's suggestion:

he writes, "It's not conventional to suggest astragalus, echinacea, elderberry and vitamin C. Adequate vitamin D levels are crucial, too."

Implying that elderberry and echinacea would be good things to take to prevent/or if one aquired h1n1. But I've read that these things can set the body off on a cytokine storm:

Really good point!


I linked to him, though, because I thought it was interesting he said it's good to get a "mild" form now (vs. a possibly more virulent form later.)

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by Sileree

I have not heard of this. Is this in the U.S.? What I've read is that so far there have been 40 or so deaths in kids since April and 2/3s of these had one or more underlying medical conditions.

That's what I read, as well

http://www.cdc.gov:80/mmwr/preview/m...cid=mm5834a1_e

[Jugs]

We had an intersting piece on the H1N1 vaccines on our local news thus weekend (News12, Long Island). It was basically a "good cop/bad cop" type interview with two local physicians; a mainstream pediatrician and an MD with a holistic approach. I must say, the pedi made a bit of a fool of herself by stating that the vaccines will contain "no" adjuvant, and that there are "no" long-term health effects. They also posted a poll and, interestingly, some 71% of parents (in a very medically mainstream area) will not be getting the vax for their children.

[mountain mom]

Originally Posted by carmel23

The regular flu season starts around November, last year it peaked in February, and then disappears when it warms up... I is possible that it is another strain of flu, but not probable.

This is always such an interesting part of it for me. The onset of flu and the peak coincides with the decreased availability of vitamin D from natural sources. The peak is the typical average point that human storage levels are gone.

[Rosebud1]

90%?!

My friend's pediatrician said that he predicts that 90% of the population will get some form of flu this winter. Does that statistic seem accurate at all? Doesn't that seem kinda crazy?

Also, I am concerned about the lack of infastructure we have here in the states. Another friends went to an urgent care center this weekend (for an unrelated illness) and she said people were in the waiting room telling others that they had the swine flu, and that they were there (waiting for two hours in a waiting room) to get it confirmed by a second doctor.

Argh!

I don't want to be fearful, but I do want to be informed.

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by Jugs

We had an intersting piece on the H1N1 vaccines on our local news thus weekend (News12, Long Island). It was basically a "good cop/bad cop" type interview with two local physicians; a mainstream pediatrician and an MD with a holistic approach. I must say, the pedi made a bit of a fool of herself by stating that the vaccines will contain "no" adjuvant, and that there are "no" long-term health effects. They also posted a poll and, interestingly, some 71% of parents (in a very medically mainstream area) will not be getting the vax for their children.

The flu mist will not have an adjuvant, perhaps this is what she meant?

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by A&A

Really good point!


I linked to him, though, because I thought it was interesting he said it's good to get a "mild" form now (vs. a possibly more virulent form later.)

this is true, but the more virulent for could be in a few weeks after the more mild for that is circulating now.

Not that this is exactly like the pandemic flu of 1918, but that flu had 3 cycles within one flu season--the first was bad, the second has horrific, and the third, there wasn't a lot of folks around to notice it. During the second wave, 100 percent of the pregnant women contracting the flu and their babies died.

Here is an interesting TED talk about the global pandemic... it focuses on the avian flu as the possible pandemic flu, but has a lot of interesting information about the global state of public health, and how even in a healthy first word country, it could get real ugly real fast:

http://www.ted.com/talks/laurie_garr..._1918_flu.html

[Cristiaz]

I read in an artilce my Dr. Mercola that the shot will contain human liver cells. They'll have to kill me first....WHOSE liver cells? People that died of cancer, for instance??? wtf

[gentlemango]

I am NOT in favor of adjuvants. It looks like the US is getting global pressure to add adjuvants. I hope it doesn't give in but the WHO is making a 'selfish Americans' argument that might have political ramifications.


http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasur...djuvants_e.php

The WHO had asked countries with first access to pandemic shots to employ vaccine sparing approaches, such as the use of adjuvants, so that there will be more to go around. Without frugal use in wealthy countries, the vast majority of nations will have limited access, at best, to vaccine against the novel H1N1 virus.

U.S. authorities have made it clear they will only use adjuvanted vaccine if their supplies won't meet American needs. They will not use the boosting compounds to stretch supplies for the developing world.

In a commentary published in the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Tachi Yamada said it would be inexcusable for people in poorer countries to die because richer countries use up most of the limited vaccine supplies. And he specifically pointed to the reluctance to use adjuvanted vaccines, currently licensed in parts of Europe but not in North America.

[SuburbanHippie]

From what I heard (from Dr Tenpenny on a recent webinar) is that the vaccines contain no adjuvants at this time. However, if they don't do well in their trials, they may add adjuvants.

My question is would they then go back to trials? It's possible they won't because of the time constraint. They want to get this on the market by the end of the month. Yikes.

On a separate note, did anyone notice vaccines tossed into the presidential speech set for tomorrow? How coincidental considering the timing of the speech and the H1N1 scare. Link to speech (you can download the speech text).

[Jen78fl]

Originally Posted by carmel23

I question this doctor's suggestion:

he writes, "It's not conventional to suggest astragalus, echinacea, elderberry and vitamin C. Adequate vitamin D levels are crucial, too."

Implying that elderberry and echinacea would be good things to take to prevent/or if one aquired h1n1. But I've read that these things can set the body off on a cytokine storm:

Eur Cytokine Netw. 2001 Apr-Jun;12(2):290-6.

The effect of Sambucol, a black elderberry-based, natural product, on the production of human cytokines: I. Inflammatory cytokines.Barak V, Halperin T, Kalickman I.

Immunology Laboratory for Tumor Diagnosis, Department of Oncology, Hadassah University Hospital, Jerusalem, Israel.

"... The present study aimed to assess the effect of Sambucol products on the healthy immune system - namely, its effect on cytokine production. The production of inflammatory cytokines was tested using blood - derived monocytes from 12 healthy human donors. Adherent monocytes were separated from PBL and incubated with different Sambucol preparations i.e., Sambucol Elderberry Extract, Sambucol Black Elderberry Syrup, Sambucol Immune System and Sambucol for Kids. Production of inflammatory cytokines (IL-1 beta, TNF-alpha, IL-6, IL-8) was significantly increased, mostly by the Sambucol Black Elderberry Extract (2-45 fold), as compared to LPS, a known monocyte activator (3.6-10.7 fold). The most striking increase was noted in TNF-alpha production (44.9 fold). We conclude from this study that, in addition to its antiviral properties, Sambucol Elderberry Extract and its formulations activate the healthy immune system by increasing inflammatory cytokine production...."

So sambucol is no good? My son seemed to be coming down with the flu this weekend and I have been giving him sambucol.. really seemed to help.. He has autism though and has problems with inflammation in his body so I dont know if this is a good thing for him!

[neetling]

subbing

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by gentlemango

I am NOT in favor of adjuvants. It looks like the US is getting global pressure to add adjuvants. I hope it doesn't give in but the WHO is making a 'selfish Americans' argument that might have political ramifications.


http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasur...djuvants_e.php

I read that , too and was surprised... honestly, I think the public health officials in the US are having a hard enough time convincing people to have the vaccine, that they won't do that unless they really, really need to. That is just my perspective, so who knows, but so many people are already distrustful of the vaccine, unless there really *is* a state of emergency, I couldn't see the Secretary of Heath declaring one so that they can please the WHO.

To have a EUA without there really being an emergency would seriously undermine the all public health officials from federal to local.

[Juvysen]

:

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by carmel23

The flu mist will not have an adjuvant, perhaps this is what she meant?

That's what I thought she said at first, but she stated there would be no adjuvants, period.

[amnesiac]

Please remember that discussions pertaining to treatment/prevention other than vaccines are hosted in our Health & Healing forum. Please remain on topic regarding vaccine issues.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

If a child is egg allergic and cannot have the flu vax does the same hold true for the h1n1?

I am a bit worried right now as a perfectly healthy boy according to the news just died with h1n1 near me Full autopsy results wont be available for 60 day but initial results show nothing out of the ordinary. He was 5yo.

ETA: Just found this here:

contraindications to vaccination (such as an allergy to eggs )

[betsyj]

I am worried as well. I was not going to get it for my son. But, I am now seeing news reports saying that children with cerebral palsy should definitely get the vaccine.

My son has CP and is in daycare. My ped is really pushing me to get it and she is normally very respectful of the choices I make.

Argh. I don't know what to do in this case.

[LisaSedai]

"Talk of The Nation" NPR's radio show is doing a show on H1N1 email your questions to [e-mail]

[MommyDOK]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

France is using swine flu to change laws---very, very scary!!