Scenerio for non or partial vaxers: WWYD?

[emma1325]

If you suddenly became the guardian of children due to the unexpected death of their parents, and the parents listed in their wills that they wished for their children to be fully vaccinated on schedule, would you do it?


My husband and I agreed to be the guardians of my SIL's 2 children should anything ever happen to her and her husband. My SIL fully vaccinates on schedule.

My SIL and her husband are also in place to take custody of our children should anything happen to me and my husband. We don't vaccinate at all.

My husband and I have it written into our wills that we do not wish our children to be vaccinated under any circumstance short of a couple of emergency instances involving rabies or tetanus. We hope and believe that my SIL would follow our wishes.

However, if it came down to it, I don't think I could allow any child under my care to be (what I consider) frivolously and needlessly vaccinated. It's too dangerous and harmful to a child IMO.

So...I feel like a hypocrite, which I should. It's not something I care to discuss with SIL because we are on complete opposite pages regarding vaccines. SIL knows we don't vaccinate, and knows we are passionate about not vaccinating, and still asked us to be guardians. Though she hasn't specifically mentioned vaccines, we know that their wishes would be to vaccinate.

Thoughts?

[carriebft]

I would follow specific wishes, as I would want my wishes to be followed. If I knew of issues such as this that would make me unable to follow something, I would tell the family that is naming me guardian and give them the chance to change their mind.

she may know you are passionate against vaccines, but she might not know you are so passionate that you would not follow her wishes. IMO, it would be completely unethical for you not to talk to her about this since it is a specific part of her wishes that you plan not to follow if the situation arises. She needs to know.

[LilacMama]

If she never tells you this or puts it in the will, then no, I wouldn't. I would assume it was not important enough to her.

If she does bother to say it/write it, then yes, I would. I would spread the vaccines out and be choosy about the brands (in other words, do the best I could to make it as safe as possible) but I would follow her "dying wishes" for her own children.

Hopefully, everyone lives and you don't have to worry

[carriebft]

Even if it is not written in the will right now, you have come up with a scenerio you feel is important to work out (hence this thread); wouldn't it be the right thing to do to talk to her about this? even if you are not sure it is in the will...

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I would follow specific wishes, as I would want my wishes to be followed. If I knew of issues such as this that would make me unable to follow something, I would tell the family that is naming me guardian and give them the chance to change their mind.

she may know you are passionate against vaccines, but she might not know you are so passionate that you would not follow her wishes. IMO, it would be completely unethical for you not to talk to her about this since it is a specific part of her wishes that you plan not to follow if the situation arises. She needs to know.

I guess my husband and I don't feel rushed to discuss it because it's such an unlikely scenario (just realized I misspelled scenario in the title; sorry!)

I do agree with your point that it's unethical not to mention it beforehand, and I'm going to continue thinking about it. (Maybe I'll put it off on my husband since it's his sister!! lol) However, I don't think it would be unethical or wrong after the fact to not follow their wishes to fully vaccinate, since I view vaccinating as harmful...just as it would not be unethical to not follow wishes to abuse a child's body in another way should it be asked for specifically in a will.

[carriebft]

In the same way, if your sister desired something that you saw as abuse, would you not talk to her about it??? tell her you can't do it?

Would you want her to just 'wait it out' if she felt that way about one of your wishes?

how about your wish to NOT vaccinate-- should she ignore it because of her own views? and not tall to you about it before hand?

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by LilacMama

If she never tells you this or puts it in the will, then no, I wouldn't. I would assume it was not important enough to her.

If she does bother to say it/write it, then yes, I would. I would spread the vaccines out and be choosy about the brands (in other words, do the best I could to make it as safe as possible) but I would follow her "dying wishes" for her own children.

Hopefully, everyone lives and you don't have to worry

lol, me too.

[LilacMama]

She may consider it "abusive" to NOT vaccinate. Most people do, actually.

This sounds like something that you definitely should talk about -- I agree with carrie.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

In the same way, if your sister desired something that you saw as abuse, would you not talk to her about it??? tell her you can't do it?

Would you want her to just 'wait it out' if she felt that way about one of your wishes?

how about your wish to NOT vaccinate-- should she ignore it because of her own views?

No, she shouldn't, which is why I feel like a hypocrite!

But I can't help how I feel. I view vaccinating and not vaccinating as two completely different things as far as risks go; vaccinating is actively risking a child's health by introducing foreign substances into a healthy body...and not vaccinating, which in theory may be passively risky, involves no direct immediate risk.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by LilacMama

She may consider it "abusive" to NOT vaccinate. Most people do, actually.

This sounds like something that you definitely should talk about -- I agree with carrie.

You're both right, of course, in theory. In practice, it's a whole other ballgame. I will bring it up to Dh and let him handle it. I'll try to come back to this thread and let you all know how it goes.

[carriebft]

but the issue really isn't about vaccination-- you could put anything in the place of that and you would continue to have the same ethical issue before you. Not telling someone you plan to not follow their wishes/ are unable to follow their wishes.

If she wanted her kids raised in a certain religion and you planned on doing a different religion if you ever came into the situation of raising her kids. Would you remain silent about this despite being named guardian or would you speak up about your inability to fulfill the wish?

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

but the issue really isn't about vaccination-- you could put anything in the place of that and you would continue to have the same ethical issue before you. Not telling someone you plan to not follow their wishes/ are unable to follow their wishes.

If she wanted her kids raised in a certain religion and you planned on doing a different religion if you ever came into the situation of raising her kids. Would you remain silent about this despite being named guardian or would you speak up about your inability to fulfill the wish?

I do agree with you about discussing it. It just hasn't come up. We haven't discussed with them our desires to have our children remain unvaccinated should we pass away, but like I said, it is written into our wills.

I guess I feel chicken about bringing it up with the parents personally because...I just don't want to get into it with them. My reluctance leaves me feeling as though I should just ignore it since it's an unlikely scenario anyway. But like I said, I'm going to let DH handle it. If he won't...then I guess I'll end up doing it.

Hmmm, religion? I don't know. I'd probably have no problem bringing a kid to a specific church or sending him/her to a specific religious school. But I wouldn't impose unnecessary medical treatment- circumcision, vaccines, etc. because I view it as a violation to the child's right to bodily integrity and general health.

[carriebft]

I just threw religion in there to show that the same issue stands no matter what the subject. I was making a hypothetical-- if you couldn't do that religion due to your personal beliefs, would you not talk to her? ya know, trying to mix it up to show you the ethical issue from another stand point.

But since you plan to discuss it, then that's cool.

You have done your research and have your opinions and the way you would raise your children or others that come under your care. I see nothing wrong with that. I am sure something can be worked out that wouldn't make you do something you could not do.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I just threw religion in there to show that the same issue stands no matter what the subject. I was making a hypothetical-- if you couldn't do that religion due to your personal beliefs, would you not talk to her? ya know, trying to mix it up to show you the ethical issue from another stand point.

But since you plan to discuss it, then that's cool.

You have done your research and have your opinions and the way you would raise your children or others that come under your care. I see nothing wrong with that. I am sure something can be worked out that wouldn't make you do something you could not do.

Yeah...if I felt I couldn't bring a child up in a certain religion that the parents felt was necessary, I would talk to the parents beforehand. Sorry I missed your point at first!

And thanks!

[EviesMom]

Personally, I would do the vaccination schedule, at least as it stood at the time of the parents' deaths. For more recent vaccines, and less tested stuff, I would do what I felt was in the children's best interest. So that would mean things like yes to DTaP, but no to being first in line for the brand-new vax that comes out 2 years after the parents die.

I would let her know if you're not willing to vax.

[xmasbaby7]

Is your SIL a researched vaxer or a follow the crowd type of vaxer?

If this happened to me and the parent actually put thought into what was best for his or her children in terms of thinking through the schedule, I would honor that. I would want to know which brands and on what schedule, to force them to think it through.

If the parents were just going along and hadn't ever thought about the issue, I would impose my own beliefs of health and wellness for the child.

I am pretty live and let live on this with my friends and family, but if I were the one accountable, I would not want to risk the child's health or the impact of a severe reaction on my whole family's energies and finances.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by emma1325

If you suddenly became the guardian of children due to the unexpected death of their parents, and the parents listed in their wills that they wished for their children to be fully vaccinated on schedule, would you do it?

No I would not do it, no way no how. The reason being that I (and the children) have to live with the consequences. IF that child dies (which is now MY child) or has a severe (or even less severe, but chronic) reaction to the vaccine (or vaccine combo) then I have to live with that, which I would not be able to do well. I already know that for many vaccines the risk exceeds the benefit.

While I think it is reasonable to put a note in the will about your requests on vaccinations and why you feel the way you do, ultimately, I don't feel it is reasonable to expect that the "new parents" will go against their own beliefs and give or deny medical care to their "new children" based on the biological parents belief system- it just doesn't make sense.

These are people that will be the NEW guardians of your child. You will no longer be guardian of the child. THEY are responsible for the health and well being of that child from that moment on.

While I would hope that the new guardians read my will carefully and consider my viewpoint or requests, I would not expect or demand that they follow my instructions. They alone have to live with themselves and any consequences of their actions. Ultimately, the choice is theirs.

[Deborah]

My daughter and son-in-law chose me as the guardian for their children, just in case, but I got tipped for several reasons:
I'm anti-vax
I'm pro-waldorf education
I'm younger than the other grandparents by about 10 years
I live close by and the children know me very well

I don't think the anti-vax thing by itself would have been a deciding factor.

It is pretty unlikely that I will have to raise my grandchildren, thank goodness, but terrible stuff does happen and responsible people will be prepared.

The fact of the matter is, that no one will raise your children exactly the way you would raise them. The best you can do is make the best choice of the available folks and then relax.

So, the question is, have you all made the best choice? It sounds like there is a large gap in parenting style...

[ammiga]

No, I couldn't do it. I could never bring myself to vaccinate a child or adult under my control.

I agree with the pp, I would make sure that I left dd to someone with similar parenting style to ours. The choice to vax or not is a fundamental belief that I could never leave someone else to make for my child.

[Amandamanda]

personally if it was written in the will i would do it.