Hobbitses movies...IT'S HERE! WARNING: SPOILERS - Page 6

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

Sexy dwarves-  Richard Armitage is fine, he looks noble.  But wasn't he supposed to look older? With a grey beard?  

Yes.  I think it was a gamble for the film to stray so far from the book's character.  For me, though, it worked.  I loved it.  Also, in the movie he was leading the charge to defend their halls, not out with Balin as the  book mentioned.  

ETA: On second thought, I referred to the introduction of the character in the book, and no mention is made on first glance of his beard.  The animated film I think set Thorin's appearance.  Also, remember, he and Balin were old enough to witness the destruction of Smaug, and Balin was the oldest of the company.

ETA again!:  Anyhow, my memory was also confused as to this actor.  I was thinking of someone else.  I haven't seen enough of his stuff to have an opinion of him.

Edited by SweetSilver - 12/30/12 at 3:25pm

[journeymom]

Well Christopher Lee is 90-flapping-years-old, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he'd died.  Every year some famous person dies, and I thought they'd died years ago.  Like Jack Klugman. Died a week ago, didn't he die in, like, 1992?  Apparently not!

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

ETA again!:  Anyhow, my memory was also confused as to this actor.  I was thinking of someone else.  I haven't seen enough of his stuff to have an opinion of him.

Stiff is a good way to describe Richard Armitage. Frankly I thought he was kind of dopey in the tv show Robin Hood.  He was very good in North and South.  His emotional reserve was useful for the part.   

[nettlesoup]

I love the fact that Christopher Lee has a metal band, and is still singing heavy metal at the age of 90! Apparently he released an album of metal covers of Christmas songs this month.
 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by nettlesoup 

I love the fact that Christopher Lee has a metal band, and is still singing heavy metal at the age of 90! Apparently he released an album of metal covers of Christmas songs this month.
 

His metal album is already out? DS mentioned it a few days ago but he thinks that Lee is releasing it in 2013. I don't think he knows that the songs are Christmas covers. I'll have to let him know. 

We started watching the extended versions of LOTR last night. DD was given the set for Christmas. There's lots of extra material, extended scenes and special features. It's been many years since I watched LOTR. It's such a beautifully filmed movie. 

[SweetSilver]

I wanted to add--someone upthread didn't like the Stone Giants.  I *loved* the Stone Giants.  Wanted to put in a good word for them.

[Smokering]

Yeah, still not a fan of the "sexy dwarf" thing. The thing is, the filmmakers were obviously trying very hard to establish continuity with the LOTR films - the same actors, sets, music etc. It was clearly meant to be in the same universe. But in the LOTR universe, we already have a very clear picture of what Dwarves look like. They look like Gimli and the Dwarves at the Council of Elrond. Stocky, barrel-chested, large beards, big noses, deep-set eyes. That's what a Dwarf is.

So when they changed it up in The Hobbit, I just couldn't find it believable. They looked fake. I spent the whole movie squinting at Thorin, trying to see him as a Dwarf, and I couldn't. He looked like a slightly swarthy man of Gondor. Fili and Kili were practically Elves! It was ridiculous. I felt like PJ and Co were just trying to match LOTR's quotient of Yummy Bearded Males to give female fans something to swoon over. But The Hobbit isn't about that. The story doesn't have an ounce of sex appeal, and it isn't meant to. They should have focussed on the humour and gruff honour of the Dwarves, instead of shooting for a brooding-exiled-king faux-Aragorn vibe. It really annoyed me.

Has PJ responded to the criticism of the film, does anyone know? Plenty of people have complained about it...

[SweetSilver]

I think that if all 13 dwarves had stiff faces like Gimli in the LOTR, the film would not have worked, IMO.  Less makeup frees the actors up to carry the film.  Gimli did not have to carry the film.  Personally I am glad they chose to do it the way they did.

[Smokering]

True, the makeup could have been an issue... but then, they've made developments with prosthetics etc since LOTR. The hobbit feet are easier to put on, I hear. So it's possible they could have found a way to retain more mobility in the faces... or, you know, just cast actors who already had Dwarvish facial features, so they wouldn't need prosthetics (or at least so many of them - a fake nose here and there doesn't seem to impact acting much. Gandalf wore one, after all - so did Saruman.)

[kathymuggle]

I saw the movie….and I did not love it.  It seemed to lack substance.  I did like the scene between Biblo and Gollum.  I reread (well skimmed) the book a few years ago, and was impressed by the humour in it.  They could have built on that more.

It was a pretty movie.

Off to read others responses and see if I have been completely redundant, lol

[Storm Bride]

The appearance/demeanour of the dwarves in the trailers is one of the reasons I haven't rushed out to see The Hobbit. DH wants to see it, so we'll try to fit it in over the next few weeks, but I'm really kind of expecting a trainwreck, and most of what I've read about it hasn't changed my expectations any.

[ollyoxenfree]

I'll be a dissenter. I enjoyed it. A lot. 

We saw it as a family yesterday. First time for DH and I, second time around for DS and DD. The kids enjoyed it as much as they did the first time. 

Spoiler-y: 

I was once again awestruck by Tolkein's world-building and Jackson's ability to recreate it on film. 

3D - I've never been a fan but I didn't mind it on this film. I've think I've only seen two other 3D movies, Avatar and the last Harry Potter film. I thought the technology has come a long way in just a couple of years. 

It's been many years since I read The Hobbit and I haven't read the appendices to it, I've only read Book 1 and half of Book 2 of LOTR (repeatedly, I always get stuck about halfway through TTT) and I've never read The Silmarillion. I appreciated  getting the Erebor backstory at the beginning of the film. It was necessary and useful for me. I don't think it would have worked as well to insert it as some kind of flashback later in the film. The kids have read everything much more recently than me (except The Silmarillion, it seems to be a gap in our family library) and they agree. 

I liked the little touches that were incorporated without being headlined. DD pointed out that the youngest dwarf is the baby brother to two others. They often make little protective gestures like pulling him back out of harm during the chase scenes. 

I liked the humour.

The chases and action scenes went on too long for my taste, but I feel that way about every single chase and action scene I've ever watched in any movie. I always think scenes with chases, fights and battles could be cut by a third or a half. 

I didn't mind the appearance of the dwarves. Yes, some of them didn't look particularly dwarvish. There was a spectrum of dwarf features and I'm willing to accept that. It was hard enough telling them all apart (when I said that yesterday, DS said that's racist, btw). 

Martin Freeman was excellent. 

I am not a huge Cate Blanchett fan so I always have to fight my opinion whenever I watch her. I did leave the film thinking about how little women mattered to Tolkein. To me, it was very noticeable that there are no women in this world. Galadriel is so other-wordly and spiritual that I don't think she really counts. 

It was good to see Christopher Lee again. Nice touch. 

Andy Serkis is a genius. Smeagol/Gollum - just amazing. 

I wondered whether Ian McKellen gets tired of yelling "RUN!" at regular intervals throughout these movies. It must happen about every 8.25 minutes and coincides with every action scene. Does he get an extra fee every time he shouts it? I think they could let one of the dwarves take that line once in awhile - maybe the baby brother dwarf. 

The one element of the film that I disliked intensely was Radagast. His image, his language, his portrayal, everything about him, was just WRONG. He is the Jar-Jar Binks of the franchise. 

I'm looking forward to the next installment. 

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I wondered whether Ian McKellen gets tired of yelling "RUN!" at regular intervals throughout these movies. It must happen about every 8.25 minutes and coincides with every action scene. Does he get an extra fee every time he shouts it? I think they could let one of the dwarves take that line once in awhile - maybe the baby brother dwarf. 

This happens in just about every film.  "Run!"  "Come one!"  I hate these kinds of verbal ejaculations...er....interjections.  It's a pet peeve of mine, so I've noticed it, and been irritated by it, for years.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I'll be a dissenter. I enjoyed it. A lot. 

I enjoyed it immensely as well.  Though I think I'll enjoy it more the second time, when I take dd to see it.  That way I'm not thinking about the hows and whys of dialog and minor plot changes, etc. and blah blah blah.  

I also saw it in HFR/3-D.  I thought I'd be annoyed or distracted, but was not.  I saw Avatar on my home TV, and was seriously bemoaning how tiny it is.  

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I am not a huge Cate Blanchett fan so I always have to fight my opinion whenever I watch her. I did leave the film thinking about how little women mattered to Tolkein. To me, it was very noticeable that there are no women in this world. Galadriel is so other-wordly and spiritual that I don't think she really counts. 

I don't think it had anything to do with women not mattering to him. I think it was the fact that these books are basically adventure/war novels. He lived in a time when a woman's war role was very much staying home and keeping the fires burning. There really isn't room for women to do very much in these stories.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

I don't think it had anything to do with women not mattering to him. I think it was the fact that these books are basically adventure/war novels. He lived in a time when a woman's war role was very much staying home and keeping the fires burning. There really isn't room for women to do very much in these stories.

Oh, I don't know that I agree. Tolkein was a professor of literature and well-schooled in ancient history and mythology. There are plenty of examples of women taking on active roles in adventure and war stories in all sorts of classical traditions, both real and fictional. During his more modern era through WWII, women in Britain held important military roles and that would not have been unknown to him. Read Code Name Verity for a good, albeit fictional, portrayal of women at war during WWII.

Tolkein was not ignorant of women's abilities. He simply made a choice to create a story about a jolly brotherhood running off together for action and excitement. It was a Boys' Own Adventure, a very popular kind of story at the time. You can almost see the crude, sloppy "NO GIRLZ ALOWED" sign that he painted on the door of the boys' club. Although, since he was a prof, he probably would have spelled it correctly. 

[Smokering]

Tolkien was very much a man's man. He liked the boys'-club atmosphere of the university and (largely) the Inklings, and it caused some tension between him and his wife. My personal theory is that he was a bit autistic in the SImon Baron-Cohen "extreme male brain" way, and found it easier to relate to people on a very technical, academic level, so sought companionship on that level with (mostly) men at his work.

I know that Eowyn wouldn't have been in the story at all, except that his daughter wanted more female characters! So, yeah. I don't think he was consciously misogynistic by any means - the Silmarillion has some more female characters of much power and personality, such as Luthien (who basically took on Satan and won - she was distinctly awesome). I just don't think he thought to put them in his books, very much. If he needed a new character, he defaulted to male.

[journeymom]

Opportunity to look something up! And avoid cleaning the stove!  So now I know who Simon Baron Cohen is. 

[Smokering]

Heh. Yep. Brother of Sacha Baron-Cohen, worsely known as Borat. They must be quite a family.