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Hobbitses movies...IT'S HERE! WARNING: SPOILERS - Page 4

post #61 of 118
Thread Starter 
Faramir's hair: I don't like it either. I don't notice it anymore but it's awkward.

Smokering, we have started the first leg of our pilgrimage, the 4 of us, we'll be at your pace in about 18 hours. We won't take up any room, we'll be very quiet. We'll sleep on the floor. You have been to all those places! Thats so cooll! Lol!
post #62 of 118

Am I the lone holdout for Jackson/Wenham's Faramir?  *Sigh*

post #63 of 118
Thread Starter 

Oh, I was smitten by David Wenhem. Not only is he very handsome, but his portrayal of being wounded to the core by his cruel father was really moving.  My couple of objections to him on seeing the movie the first time was that 1) he didn't look like how I imagined Faramir would look, and 2) I had a vague memory that in the book he was a more resolute character. Neither of those things are in Wenhem's control. I'm really glad I didn't re-read the books immediately before seeing the movies.

 

I LOVE Peter Jackson's LotR. Though there are lots and lots of things I would have done differently, I think the movies are epic and authoritative.  Though it would have been fun to see Tom Bombadil, I was never bothered that he wasn't included. They're right, his is one story that wasn't strictly necessary to include in the Ring's story.

 

I think movie-Arwen is Fran Walsh's idea, and it's brilliant.  The books sorely needed more significant, active women, besides Eowen all by herself. Movie-Arwen wasn't just this beautiful, ethereal elvish prop for Aragorn's story. she was much more interesting.  And making her an amalgamation of her brothers was perfect.  The movie didn't need more guys who'd show up for a few minutes, never to be seen again. People who'd never read the books, or who'd read them once years ago, would get them mixed up, "Wait, there's more of these guys, am I supposed to keep track of them?" Liv Tyler is very beautiful and looked the part.  She's just kind of a weak actor. 

 

I imagine that's why this Itaril character was created for the Hobbit movie.  She fills out the female dimension, something that many girls agree is sorely missing the first time they read Tolkien's books. 

 

I can't go on about these movies and have these conversations about the itty-bitty detailed comparison to the books, anywhere else in real life. 

 

Edited to add another criticism of the movie, because I can't really do this elsewhere,  I think the good-by scene at the end of RotK is probably baffling to people who haven't read the books. I think the music swells waay too much, they focus on Elija Wood's huge eyes uncomfortably too long, the whole thing is just over-wrought.  However, I know they were trying to portray the epic, aching, bittersweet feeling that pervaded that goodby in the book, and I appreciate it.  I cried when I finished reading the book; it felt like the world had ended.  It was a tragic loss for the whole world that the Elves were leaving never to come back, that Aragorn and that world of Men was fading into the past. 

 

So I know that's what they were trying to portray, and maybe it's impossible to translate that onto film.


Edited by journeymom - 7/18/12 at 9:22am
post #64 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

I think movie-Arwen is Fran Walsh's idea, and it's brilliant.  The books sorely needed more significant, active women, besides Eowen all by herself. Movie-Arwen wasn't just this beautiful, ethereal elvish prop for Aragorn's story. she was much more interesting. 

 

This is another illustration of how different people's perspectives can be. I found Arwen to be a complete waste of screen time, and her charcter was annoying as crap. I didn't find her interesting in the least...unless I call the attempt to tack on some kind of personality by having her rush Frodo to Rivendell "interesting". I so, so, so wish they'd just left her completely out. I don't know anybody in real life who found her even remotely significant or interesting...and she was amazingly non-active (aside from the aforementioned, tacked-on race to save Frodo).


Sorry - just had to vent. I hate Arwen's character with a passion. I know some people who hate her because they hate Liv Tyler. I don't care about the actress, one way or the other. I simply can't stand Arwen. And, it kind of depresses me to know that was a woman's input. Seriously? "Oh, look - we've got LOTR to work with - let's try to make it play like a Harlequin romance". Blech.

 

(Mind you, I've also spent the last 15 years or so wondering where all the strong female characters are hiding in Wheel of Time. I must have overlooked them, too.)


Edited by Storm Bride - 7/19/12 at 12:04pm
post #65 of 118
Quote:
Smokering, we have started the first leg of our pilgrimage, the 4 of us, we'll be at your pace in about 18 hours. We won't take up any room, we'll be very quiet. We'll sleep on the floor. You have been to all those places! Thats so cooll! Lol!

lol.gif Hey, most of you lot live in the US, where celebrities are swarming like flies and every other film was shot. I'll revel in New Zealand's one little moment of glory. :p

 

Quote:
I found Arwen to be a complete waste of screen time, and her charcter was annoying as crap.

I tend to agree. I didn't hate all her scenes - like I said, the prophecy scene of Aragorn's eventual death, with Elrond's beautiful voiceover, was awesome. But that was despite her, not because of her. :p It was completely unnecessary to tack on the "Arwen will die if the Ring is not destroyed" storyline - like the stakes weren't high enough already? The flight to Rivendell... ehh, I can accept that, whatever. The "nearly leaving Middle-Earth but having a vision" bit I'm so-so on - with a better actor, her confrontation with Elrond could have been quite moving. The "sexy seethrough dress" scene? Eugh.

 

Mostly, I just didn't find her believable as an Elf. Cate Blanchett, yes. Hugo Weaving, yes - which is particularly impressive given that his face doesn't exactly scream "majestic elven beauty" to me. They had gravitas, intelligence, wisdom... I could see them as thousands of years old. Liv? Heck no. She came across as vague, not ethereal; dim, not mysterious; vacant, not deep. I don't hate Liv (I first saw her in That Thing You Do! and thought she was adorable), but her portrayal combined with the interviews I've seen make me conclude she just didn't have the intelligence or experience to pull off the part. She didn't get it.

 

Tolkien's work definitely does lack women - and we wouldn't even have Eowyn if his daughter hadn't objected to said lack - but honestly, it's a flaw I'd be happy to let stand in the movies, as just one of those things. I wasn't thrilled to hear about the Itaril character either, precisely because of how Jackson dealt with Arwen - I'm worried she'll come off as annoying and make most of the fans wish they'd saved the screentime for the actual plot.

 

I don't think I'd have wanted Arwen left out of the film altogether; I just don't like how she was done. Maybe it's another one of Kobayashi Maru situations. Like Storm Bride, nearly all the fans I know found movie-Arwen grating in the extreme. Gorgeous costumes though, I'll give her that...

 

Quote:
Edited to add another criticism of the movie, because I can't really do this elsewhere,  I think the good-by scene at the end of RotK is probably baffling to people who haven't read the books. I think the music swells waay too much, they focus on Elija Wood's huge eyes uncomfortably too long, the whole thing is just over-wrought.  However, I know they were trying to portray the epic, aching, bittersweet feeling that pervaded that goodby in the book, and I appreciate it.  I cried when I finished reading the book; it felt like the world had ended.  It was a tragic loss for the whole world that the Elves were leaving never to come back, that Aragorn and that world of Men was fading into the past.

I agree - and the whole scene feels like it's been slightly slowed down. The dialogue is really slow - "I triiieedd to saaave the Shiiiire" - and the scene could easily have had 30% lopped off in the editing room. But it was a noble effort, and it still works for me to some extent. (And I love Sam's little hobbit children when he returns home!)

post #66 of 118
Thread Starter 
Yes, that was the perfect ending!
post #67 of 118

Movie Arwen was kind of necessary, IMO, once they changed Aragorn's character from a man who was nobly biding his time until he could take his kingship properly, to a noble man who was hesitant to accept this duty.  With this change (Jackson talks about why they changed it in the making of specials included in the extended addition) I think they needed a new motivation for him to accept his kingship.  Arwen dying --clunky, annoying-- did the job.

 

Elrond was half-elven, so, yes, Weaving was perfect even though he was not beautiful.

post #68 of 118
Thread Starter 

I have a relatively shallow knowledge of Elrond's background. I can never get him straight in my head.  He's written like he's the Elf Among Elves, equal to Galadriel. But he's 'only' half elf. Those two aspects don't jive right in my head.  He's how old in LotR?

 

...Looked it up, he's "well over 6,000 years old" at the time of LotR.  

 

Ah, OK, my confusion came from comparing him to Galadriel.  She's way more powerful.  How cool is this, she went into Mordor and cleaned it up with a tornado before leaving Middle Earth.  Apparently she was more than 8,000 years old at the time of LotR. 


Edited by journeymom - 7/19/12 at 8:05pm
post #69 of 118

Elrond isn't "half-elven" per se. He's an Elf. I'm a bit rusty on my Middle-Earth geekery, but he descended from one of the other two human/Elf pairs - Tuor and Idril, I think. Their children could all choose whether they wanted to be human or Elven. Elrond chose to be an Elf, so he's "full" Elf - immortal, all the bells and whistles - but yes, in theory he could have taken after the human/ugly side of the family in terms of looks, I suppose. :p Although most of the noble Men back then were supposed to be pretty good-looking. Certainly Idril was.

 

And yeah, Galadriel is hugely powerful.

post #70 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

Movie Arwen was kind of necessary, IMO, once they changed Aragorn's character from a man who was nobly biding his time until he could take his kingship properly, to a noble man who was hesitant to accept this duty.  With this change (Jackson talks about why they changed it in the making of specials included in the extended addition) I think they needed a new motivation for him to accept his kingship.  Arwen dying --clunky, annoying-- did the job.

 

I don't think they needed anything. The Ring crisis, including the all-out war on Men, would have been enough. Hesitant or not, he still had a sense of duty. Personally, I think Arwen was handled the way she was for the sole purpose of adding "chick appeal". That bites. I hate "chick flicks", and sure as hell wasn't looking for any of that crap in LOTR!

 

Oh, well - what's done is done. I do love the movies, but I can't help hoping that one day, someone will tackle them again...and leave out the Harelequin-esque romance crap, languishing Elf lady...and maybe not quite so many long, drawn-out camera shots on Frodo's wide eyes and soulful face. He honestly didn't come across to me as being capable of bearing the ring across a room, let alone across Mordor. (I think Elijah Wood did okay, but I didn't like him as a casting choice, and I didn't really care for the way Frodo was written.)

 

Elrond was half-elven, so, yes, Weaving was perfect even though he was not beautiful.

 

I didn't think most of the Elves were really beautiful, to be honest. I liked the way they were cast, though - I think that, for the most part, they were going for actors with unusual faces full of character, instead of just prettiness.

post #71 of 118
Thread Starter 
Correction: Galadriel tore down the walls of Dol Guldur, not Mordor.
post #72 of 118
Quote:
I didn't think most of the Elves were really beautiful, to be honest. I liked the way they were cast, though - I think that, for the most part, they were going for actors with unusual faces full of character, instead of just prettiness.

They were going for tall, thin and androgynous with plenty of cheekbone. I agree, I didn't think most of them were beautiful per se - in fact I thought they were kind of odd-looking.

 

I wonder if another film version will ever be made? I'm dubious, just because these films have attained such classic, "definitive" status - it'd be like remaking Gone with the Wind or the Harry Potter movies. But then, with Hollywood's love affair with reboots, both of those might well happen someday. I'd certainly be interested in seeing another take on LOTR, but there are some aspects I doubt could be bettered - the music, some of the casting choices, the costumes and set design, etc.

 

Would love to see the Scouring of the Shire, though. I get why it was left out, but it was such a satisfying part of the books! Seeing Merry and Pippin really come into their own like that was awesome. Maybe a miniseries would suit the structure of the stories better.

post #73 of 118

I actually think a miniseries could be great. There's a lot of story to pack into any format. A miniseries could break in different places, emphasize storylines differently, etc. I'm guessing that if it gets rebooted, it won't be for quite a while.

 

And, personally, I'd love to see a reboot of Harry Potter. I don't think it will ever happen, because Pottermania has peaked (imo). But, I think the later films in that series really suffered from the fact that the book series wasn't finished when filming of the movies started. Anyone doing a reboot would know which "minor" details were going to end up being more important later on and things like that.

post #74 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

And, personally, I'd love to see a reboot of Harry Potter. I don't think it will ever happen, because Pottermania has peaked (imo). But, I think the later films in that series really suffered from the fact that the book series wasn't finished when filming of the movies started. Anyone doing a reboot would know which "minor" details were going to end up being more important later on and things like that.

Like the shattered mirror.  When I first saw DH1, I had forgotten that detail from the 5th book, a detail they left out of the movie and ended up being pivotal in the 7th book.

 

I think a series of LOTR sounds fabulous.  "Cable" TV has shown recently that it can pull off good series (serieses..es....es..whatever) and people have bigger screens at home (well, other homes orngtongue.gif).   Still, I'm dying for my daughter to see the series on the big screen as I did (at the Cinerama in Seattle.....HUGE screen.  The Balrog scene was....wow!)

post #75 of 118

The big screen was awesome...but I went for popcorn refills during the big Shelob scenes - and unfortunately came back in just in time to see her stalking Frodo. *shudder*


I really don't like spiders, and that kind of size doesn't improve them even a little bit.

post #76 of 118
Thread Starter 

It's officially a trilogy: 

 

http://www.facebook.com/notes/the-hobbit/peter-jacksons-long-awaited-filmed-adaptation-of-the-hobbit-to-be-a-trilogy/413954741973470

 

I'm excited!  1) I've never read the Silmarillion so these first two Hobbit movies were going to have unfamiliar material anyway.  2) I'd already accepted there's going to be more original content than in the LotR movies.  3) I want to enjoy the experience so I'm keeping an open mind as much as possible.  I already know there's going to be annoying stupid stuff. 

 

This should be fun!

post #77 of 118

If well done, it could be wonderful.  I'm not sure how well it will go over for my will-be-almost-8yo, who will be expecting The Hobbit and not much else.  She enjoyed LOTR, though, so she could have fun if, like you, she is prepared for the other stuff. I know she will like more of the Necromancer in the tale. Even though he is only mentioned in the book, she loves when they talk about it.

post #78 of 118

OK, uber-fans, let your geek-flag fly and tell me what I want to read for this trilogy.

post #79 of 118

Grumble grumble mutter. Yeah, I was hoping the trilogy idea would blow over... like when they briefly considered making Samwise a girl for LOTR (I kid you not). I really don't like the idea. Tolkien was hardly famous for his brevity, but even he knew well enough to put various backstories and tangents in the Appendices where they belonged, instead of bogging down the plot with extraneous detail.

 

Plus, the only bit of the Silmarillion I'd really like to see onscreen is Beren and Luthien, which presumably won't make it into the trilogy (well, hopefully, it's completely irrelevant!). Maybe the Fall of Gondolin. The rest, meh.

 

SweetSilver, it's hard to know what PJ's going to put in the films, but you should read The Hobbit and LOTR (obviously), the Appendices to LOTR - especially the story of Aragorn and Arwen - and, if you're really keen and want to cover all bases, the Silmarillion.

 

Heh - I just remembered I had a weird dream last night, in which I went to see The Hobbit and it was really awful. Pages from Aragorn and Arwen's (mutual) diary kept coming up onscreen, written in this Comic Sans-like font, and containing checklists and puns; and I was so mad I could hardly stop myself shouting out at the screen. And then I was in the movie and there was a forest full of Ents and a mental asylum, and this obnoxious guy I used to work with was there and kept trying to escape... you know how dreams are. But I guess my subconscious is pretty riled about the changes!

post #80 of 118
Thread Starter 

Denny's Hobbit menu:  http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-dennys-middle-earth-hobbit-20121023,0,4853088.story

 

I'm torn.  On the one hand this seems almost blasphemous.  On the other hand, this means there HAS to be a Tolkien fan somewhere in Denny's menu research & development.  lol.gif 

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