Great, so my kid's a bully?

[MrsMike]

I have a 3 year old who is typically a very mellow and happy kid. Sadly, we don't get to spend much time with other kids. I don't have many local friends with young kids. I go to a LLL group once a month and that's about it as far as interaction goes. We visit the playground several times a week but it's either very empty or the kids are older and don't want to play with him or parents stick to their own little groups. We live in a pretty affluent community and there is a definite division among "classes" (we're not the affluent ones) and there is judgement if you dress, look or parent in a certain way. It's very popular here for play to be structured. Kids in the playground are often yelled at for not doing something "correctly" or for getting dirty, being loud or for running. Us hippie parents who are a little more free with their kids are looked down on. He gets so excited when he sees other children. It's sad. So, I decided to enroll him in a couple of things. Our library has story and song time so we'll start that next week. I enrolled him in Parent/Tot gymnastics at the Y as well as swim lessons at the Y.

LLL was yesterday and he was such a stinker. One little boy brought a box full of matchbox cars. My son lives and breathes for cars, I swear. Despite multiple attempts to explain sharing he refused. He kept taking all the cars and then telling the other little boy to stay away, throwing a tantrum or two.

Today was worse. It was the first day of gymnastics. He's the oldest in the class (it's for ages 1 to 3). All the rest are under 2.5 yrs old. None of the other kids were interested in him, which I understand as it's a new situation and there are lots of fun things to do. But he just went wild, running around taking things from the other kids, throwing stuff, pushing them out of the way of an activity. I tried several times to take him aside and explained how we need to share, play nice, be calmer, etc. He'd be fine for a minute and then he'd be off to steal more stuff or push his way onto the balance beam/mats/parallel bar. The worst was towards the end of class when they were doing that whole parachute thing. He went for the youngest kid, a 22mo girl and flat out slapped her in the face. I took him aside AGAIN, explained why that was wrong and asked him to say he was sorry, to which he just kept screaming, "NO! I'm not saying sorry!" We were ignored for the remaining ten minutes. I apologized to the little girl's mom and she told me not to worry at all because these things happen and kids are kids, yadda yadda. But, I got the sense from other parents that they weren't so understanding. There's 7 weeks left and I'm already afraid. I'm second-guessing my decision to go to the library activities, too. I'm afraid he's going to do the same thing week after week.

What should I do? We've explained sharing so much. He knows to share with mommy, daddy, grandma, pop pop and everyone else we see (mostly adults). I'm so upset about him trying to push the other kids around and hitting the little girl. We do not hit in our household so it's not something he's used to. I have tons of anxiety over this. I worry that my sweet little boy is going to turn into a little bully and that kids will avoid him. I was avoided a lot growing up (not cause I was a bully - the other way around) and I do not want the same happening to him. It makes me sad because he's always excited to see other kids, always asks to play with them and now when he gets a chance he behaves like this. I understand that he was excited and it's a new situation. I just worry that it's going to happen again. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I feel like I'm failing my kid because I'm not getting him out there to play with other kids and that I'm failing him by not parenting properly. I just want him to have fun and to have some little friends.

[limabean]

I'm so sorry -- that sounds stressful.

For hitting, we would be out of there immediately with the explanation that that's completely unacceptable and we don't get to stay and do fun stuff if he's going to hit.

One thing that helped a ton with my DS starting around age 3 was talking about my expectations on the way to an event. If I could give him 2 or 3 specific rules for that outing (for us it was usually about leaving nicely when it was time to go home rather than throwing a fit), he just miraculously did better when I'd give him a reminder.

[zaftigmama]

Honestly - maybe he just doesn't really know how to play and interact with kids close to his age. It's definitely a learning process and it may take him a few times to get it.

My daughter was a biter when she was two, and I was so afraid of getting kicked out of our wonderful playgroup. I started telling her right before playgroup that if she bit anyone, we would have to leave right away. We left once or twice, after apologizing, and she quickly learned.

Give him some time to get to learn how to play and learn about other kids and he'll figure it out. It sounds like he's overexcited and doesn't really know what to do.

Good luck!

[ollyoxenfree]

Is the group dynamic a little overwhelming for him? Would it help if he had a little more experience with just one or two playmates - maybe at a local park so they can run around without a problem. Or a different group may work - maybe he will fit in better if he is the youngest rather than the oldest.

It's great that you are trying different social situations with him. Keep on trying. Good luck!

[pbjmama]

I agree, it sounds like he needs more time to figure out what is and isn't appropriate in a public/social setting. Is there a local park you can go to for practice? I think a few rounds of leaving immediately he hits might work better since the talking isn't working. I would give a warning on the way - first time offense means we leave that exact moment. And follow through, don't make a big deal out of it, oh you hit that boy so now we are leaving as you walk to the car.

[4evermom]

He is still young enough that parallel play is the main thing so don't expect playing with other kids. Just nearby and peacefully is a good goal.

One thing about boys is they tend to inventory. So whenever you go someplace new, he is going to want to check out every toy in the place, including the ones other kids are holding. You might want to stick to smaller situations so he doesn't have to take a long time checking everything out. I remember being very careful about what toys I brought to a group setting. I'd think about what plays well in a group and bring a lot of one thing instead of variety. I'd bring a lot of bubbles and similar wands to the playground, for instance, nothing cool like a battery operated one until the kids were older.

I worked on trading with ds. I made sure he knew he had to give the other kid something and hope they gave him what they were holding. Sometimes it worked really well, but sometimes the other kid had no interest in trading. It's important to give before taking because it puts the other child in a receptive mood. I always did that with ds when he was a baby and reminded him to do it with baby cousins. He was really very good at it but I know that is temperament not my good mothering.

I think you are basically coming up against the need to inventory and the other typical boy thing of being physical first (not that all boys are, or girls can't also speak with their hands). But typical boys tend to react to more things physically. They might hit as a response to having their feelings hurt or being called a name, for instance. It helps to understand what triggers hitting.

[4evermom]

Another thought... Sometimes it works really well to play with an older child. The older one isn't as interested in the same toys. Sometimes they think it's fun to have a little kid to show around and who looks up to them. My 8 yo tends to be really sweet with 2 and 3 yos. But at a certain point he starts holding them to higher expectations and being less tolerant of them when they don't act appropriately. And that happens right around age 3 1/2. I've just been finding it interesting where he draws the line between thinking a child is too little to expect much of, and when he starts thinking they should act like bigger kids rather than babies. And sometimes a bigger kid saying "knock it off" is very influential.

It just reminds me of my mom's story of her mama cat that was very tolerant of crawling babies but stopped being tolerant once they started walking as if she recognized the difference in development.

[4evermom]

And one more thought, or the end of the last one, lol....

I really liked having my ds in situations where he was one of the younger kids rather than one of the older ones when he was 4ish. It was hard because so many kids his age and older were in school. But my ds had wild body language. He ran wind milling his arms. He swung things around. He made mamas of little ones tense even though he never hit other kids without provocation (he went through a hitting mama stage, so he was no angel). It was so much better hanging out with kids who were a little older or who had older brothers because their parents were more mellow. Not that people shouldn't protect their toddlers but with my ds, he was more likely to do well in situations where no one had poor expectations of him, where no one talked sharply to him, etc.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

DD couldn't do classes or group situations for the exact same reasons at 3.

Now, at 4, she does all those things very well. She listens to the teacher, doesn't grab toys, is more interested in interaction with the other children than their toys, etc.

I really think its just the age. Give him another 6 months to a year.

[nextcommercial]

Gosh, at least you admit it! Most parents of bullies think it's the other kid's fault.

I don't think he's an actuall bully.... and sharing is a concept you have to learn, you can't have it explained to you. But, I think he's jut not used to having a social life.

I know it's stressful, and not at all fun for you, but I'd keep taking him to activities, it's the best way for him to learn the social skills needed to be a good friend.

He would probably do MUCH better in an older class though. Being the top of the dog pile doesn't always work. It was best for MY daughter to be the oldest, but that's not for everybody.

Maybe there is a class that meets at the same place, but has four and five year olds. He might thrive in that setting.

Don't give up! He will learn, it just takes time.. this is all new for him.

[Marylizah]

You've gotten some great advice.

I think that talking about expected behaviors before each social situation is a great idea. And if he hits/pushes/slaps an immediate departure is necessary. He will very quickly figure out that staying is worth it.

Also finding smaller groups could be helpful, but give the groups you've found a couple more weeks so that he gets used to it. If you are going from practically no (peer) social events to two big ones a week, he'll need to adjust.

Oh, and in your shoes I would be RIGHT next to him every.single.second until you feel he's stabilized. No running away, no cruising the room without you right by his side.

Good luck!!!

[sunnysandiegan]

Great advice above! I just wanted to add a for you and your son. And mention one thing I didn't see above: Try to relax and be as positive as you can about all of this. Little ones sense mama's moods/feelings and take it on in many cases. I totally agree with the others about this is a learning process (for both of you) and it takes practice.

I have run a playgroup for 8 years now and we have had it all. Biters, hitters, aggressive kids, shy kids, enthusiastic kids, mellow kids, etc. As a parent and spending so much time with other parents in these situations, the best thing you can do is prep him and yourself ahead of time and follow through immediately with apologies to the child and parent involved and leave quickly (no threats, please). Talk to the teacher/instructor/leader too and see what they advise. At the very least, it lets them know your intentions (good parenting!) and potentially puts you and them in a collaborative frame of mind for dealing with issues that may arise.

Best wishes!!!!

[MrsMike]

Thank you all so much for the wonderful responses. There is a lot of good advice here and I really appreciate it.

I like the idea of explaining what I expect of him before we go out. We did this tonight before he went for his first little swim lesson and he did AWESOME. When we got in the car afterwards he was so proud of himself for not hitting anyone. So, hopefully next week's gym class is better.

We didn't go to a class with older kids for a couple of reasons. It would have been harder to fit into our schedule. And, it's not a mommy and me class. The kids are on their own with the teachers (this is the YMCA). I wasn't sure I wanted to throw him into something like that without mommy since this is his first time in this sort of setting. The class we were in is small...I think there were 5 kids all together. We are going to stop by the library next week when they start their story and music circle. That is geared for ages 3 to 5 so hopefully he will fare well.

I'm going to try to get him out to the park more and hopefully we'll see some kiddies that he can play with. As I said in the op, it's not always a problem of finding other kids, but it's the parents. Structured play just seems very popular. But....I'm hoping to be able network with other mamas that are like me. I know they're out there.

And I have to work on my attitude. I know that's a problem. I have a lot of social anxiety and I hate to think I'm transferring that energy to him.

Thanks so much for the advice. I'm confident that things will work out. I plan to keep him in the little classes as long as it benefits him. If things still get hairy I will wait it out for a few months and try again.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by MrsMike

I like the idea of explaining what I expect of him before we go out. We did this tonight before he went for his first little swim lesson and he did AWESOME. When we got in the car afterwards he was so proud of himself for not hitting anyone.

That's terrific! Progress already. I'm sure you are positively reinforcing his good behaviour and improvements.

One more suggestion. If he isn't familiar with the library, is it possible to make a visit a day or 2 before the story circle? Being in unfamiliar surroundings can also be overwhelming, so it may help to show him around during a quieter time, before he is expected to join a group, and sit and pay attention. Or you may want to factor in a longer stay on the day you go, and let him know that he will have a chance to look around, play with their neat toys and look at the books on his own (or hopefully with new friends!), but he's expected to join the group during storytime.

Best of luck!

[spughy]

Originally Posted by 4evermom

Another thought... Sometimes it works really well to play with an older child. The older one isn't as interested in the same toys. Sometimes they think it's fun to have a little kid to show around and who looks up to them. My 8 yo tends to be really sweet with 2 and 3 yos. But at a certain point he starts holding them to higher expectations and being less tolerant of them when they don't act appropriately. And that happens right around age 3 1/2. I've just been finding it interesting where he draws the line between thinking a child is too little to expect much of, and when he starts thinking they should act like bigger kids rather than babies. And sometimes a bigger kid saying "knock it off" is very influential.

It just reminds me of my mom's story of her mama cat that was very tolerant of crawling babies but stopped being tolerant once they started walking as if she recognized the difference in development.

That's funny - my cat is EXACTLY the same. Very tolerant of babies, but once they start walking she treats them exactly like all the other humans in her life.

Anyway I completely concur with the idea of playing with slightly older children. They have the background to be able to slightly structure play, order the little ones around and speak up when inappropriate things happen. And, they tend to enjoy having small minions. The little ones are happier when they have clear direction, the older ones are happy they have someone to direct, and it's all good. I'm a huge fan of multi-age play.

[MrsMike]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

One more suggestion. If he isn't familiar with the library, is it possible to make a visit a day or 2 before the story circle? Being in unfamiliar surroundings can also be overwhelming, so it may help to show him around during a quieter time, before he is expected to join a group, and sit and pay attention. Or you may want to factor in a longer stay on the day you go, and let him know that he will have a chance to look around, play with their neat toys and look at the books on his own (or hopefully with new friends!), but he's expected to join the group during storytime.

Best of luck!

Oh yes. He is VERY familiar with the library. We spend a lot of time there. They have a large children's area with a train table, wood blocks and other toys. He's used to spending a few hours there (we're all major bookworms ) and I usually have to coax him to leave. It starts tomorrow morning. :

Originally Posted by spughy

That's funny - my cat is EXACTLY the same. Very tolerant of babies, but once they start walking she treats them exactly like all the other humans in her life.

Anyway I completely concur with the idea of playing with slightly older children. They have the background to be able to slightly structure play, order the little ones around and speak up when inappropriate things happen. And, they tend to enjoy having small minions. The little ones are happier when they have clear direction, the older ones are happy they have someone to direct, and it's all good. I'm a huge fan of multi-age play.

Kitties love babies.

He was lucky this weekend. We were at my parents house and a lot of the neighborhood kids ended up playing on their front steps. He was able to play with kids of all ages and was VERY happy. :-)