|Originally posted by captain optimism
There is also this one element that I must acknowledge, which is that youdon't have the whole picture from one post, even a long one. To comment on their choices (or even, more appropriately, on their medical care) based on that information seems to me injudicious.
You can say negative things about high intervention birth. I think that's a good tactic. It's different from saying "and all you women who had high intervention births need to come to terms with the fact that you feel bad about it because you made bad decisions." You don't know that that is true. You can have necessary interventions and feel bad anyway.
earlier, Greaseball commented that 50% of c/sections are unnecessary. If that's true (and I don't know where that figure comes from) that means that 1/2 of c/sections are necessary. Which means that any woman on these boards who had one might have really needed one.
*Re: commenting based on one long post....women CHOSE to put there stuff out there, that I really lack sympathy for. Nothing irks me more than a woman who will, in the midst of a C Sec discussion, post her story and yet be unwilling to discuss it. Its like saying "This is the real deal THE END! YOU SHUT UP BECAUSE THATS MY STORY". I hate that. I know...I know...that sounds harsh. It isn't really directed at anyone in particular...it's just unfair. Its one thing to post in a support group or post in response to someone asking just about the experience....but when you post in the midst of discussion, the words are UP for discussion, so you (general you) need to keep that in mind. I hope that makes sense....
* Just to be clear, I NEVER said that "and all you women who had high intervention births need to come to terms with the fact that you feel bad about it because you made bad decisions." Focus on the word ALL. I don't think ANYONE said that. I do, however, firmly believe in instinct and emotion. And the incredibly strong knee jerk reactions I see often (again, not just here, but everywhere) make me think. The vast majority of the time when *I* have a knee jerk reaction like that, that is THAT strong and THAT emotionally charged...it's usually because the thing I'm being accused of has some ring of truth. Humans are humans and we aren't that complicated...we all kind of work the same. Just in my personal experience, I know moms who really honest to God DID HAVE to have their interventions in their birth, whatever they were. I'm sure we all have a friend or two like that. And you know what? Most of them get *a bit* irked at stuff like this, but deep down they know they have nothing to defend...they honestly had no choice, so whats to argue? And I have some friends who are UBER high interventionist and will FREAK out on you if you even MENTION something *sorta* related to natural birth. I used to be on a really mainstream board and there were a couple women who were ALWAYS the first to reply to birth questions with all sorts of "Dont let the wackos talk you into naturl birth! Intervention birth is FINE!!! See? My baby turned out just fine so it must be ok!!". They'd also admit to NOT reading up, to blindly listening to their docs, etc etc etc. I know it's not PC to say and it's not nice to say maybe but it's honestly what I believe...if you have that violent a reaction to something, maybe it's because deep inside you know you could have made better choices. Again, I TOTALLY sympathize with that...its HARD to be questioned about your parenting...its one of the most personal things you can be called on the floor about. I didn't say it was EVERYONE, but I bet it's a significant ammount.
I had some interventions in my daughters birth that, looking back, I wouldn't have chosen. I was younger, single, and totally new and learning. I thought I made the best choices at the time but now I realize I could have done things differently. I've been there. I remember I was BREIFLY at AMU and got the crap FLAMED out of me for some of the things that happened with my when I birthed and when my dd was young. And I was OUTRAGEOUSLY defensive about it......because I knew there *was* a thread of truth to some of what was being aimed at me. But it wouldn't have helped me or my child or future children to just staunchly stand by my mistakes and do them over and over again.
I knew better afterwards and resolved myself to DO better the next time. And now I kind of think I am.
Which brings it all back around for me.....sometimes it's hard to take a really honest look at yourself and your life and often times its VERY hard to resolve to change. Very.
But, say back when I weaned my dd, everyone would have said "Awww....You poor thing.....you did what you could and you made the right choice" without giving me ANY info.....that would have been detrimental to me and to any other children I may have had, you know? And, it could have been detrimental to my friends, because what if I then went around spouting that what I did was just fine and so whatever THEY wanted to do what fine, too.
Also, I think the IMPORTANT number to keep in mind is that over 90% of women in the US (93-97 depending on the studies you read) can give birth normally. No interventions. So when you start talking about who NEEDS interventions, it's not especially likely you are talking to them online. It's POSSIBLE and I'm sure there are a few....it's just not as common as you'd think reading various online forums.
So anyways.....I don't mean to be offensive.....in the context of this discussion, nothing I say has been aimed at anyone. I think about what Pam said almost every day and I see it as a very hard thing to do, advocate for better births.....because too many women are too defensive. And we have this notion that if you don't just smile and nod then you aren't being supportive. And if you bring up ANYTHING negative or you bring up ANYTHING that *may* make a mom question her circumstances, you are a militant wacko and out to sabatoge women. It really feels like you CAN'T say straight forward facts, like Grease said, because it can *possibly* be construed as negative and then you are slammed for being insensitive. Honestly...is it asking to much of women to develope a little tougher skin?
The reality is that when you talk about online forums such as these, when a woman asks the "my doc says my baby is too big" question, when someone chimes in with "Well mine really WAS too big so you should get the section!" then your doomed....you can't say anything to that because you're a bitch for critisizing their birth choice. There *has* to be a way to approach the situation as a Monday Morning Quarterback. And, I've said it a few times, there really does have to come a point where some women own that their defensiveness is theirs alone and not the product of what anyone else said.
This discussion is discouraging for me. I feel like it's a brick wall. Theres nothing you can do because no matter what, you'll offend someone and thats a no-no. We women can't be honest with one another because feelings get hurt and then that negates what was said. I can't go protest C Sec rates because it means I am questioning the choices of someone I don't even know. I can't tell a mom on a board that she should try for non med birth because someone who HAD it will chime in and say it's perfectly fine and if I say anything about THAT, I'm insensitive, arrogant, and judging.
I keep asking and I think I'm getting my answer....you can't win. You can't speak out unless it's in private. You can't be an advocate because it automatically makes you arrogant, judgemental, mean, a bitch, etc etc etc.
I don't know how to be an advocate and still make everyone else happy and I'm begining to think it's just impossible. I don't know how to make other moms understand I respect them as mothers, but I don't respect the medical establishment, because no matter what you say, people still say "Well! Your words were very judging and who are you to judge!".
I just don't know.