Flumist side effects advice quick!

[Frootloop]

A close friend went against her gut today and allowed her son's pediatrician scare her into getting the flumist for him at his appointment this afternoon. She'd originally just gone in for a rash type thing on his arm and was basically scared into getting either the flu shot or the flumist. She was adamantly against the shot, but was talked into getting the other.

The big problem is that now he is very tired and achey and generally feels unwell, whereas prior to the mist, he was just fine. Is this common or normal? She put in a call back to the pediatrician and plans to take him back in.

Another question.. since this is a live virus, am I right that it sheds? She has 3 other children at home, along with 3 adults including herself. Will they have a chance of getting the flu from this?

[fruitfulmomma]

Another question.. since this is a live virus, am I right that it sheds? She has 3 other children at home, along with 3 adults including herself. Will they have a chance of getting the flu from this?

Yes.

[Frootloop]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

Yes.

Nice.. I thought so and I did tell her that, but said that I would research it a bit to verify it for her since she isn't able to get online at the moment. Apparently, the doctor forgot to tell her that part.

I also have two of the four kids at my house right now while she figures out what's going on.

Does anyone know right off hand how long the mist sheds for?

[luminesce]

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5213a1.htm

Because LAIV contains live influenza viruses, a potential exists for transmission of these viruses from vaccinees to other persons. Vaccinated immunocompetent children can shed vaccine viruses for <3 weeks (6). One unpublished study in a child care center setting assessed transmissibility of vaccine viruses from 98 vaccinated to 99 unvaccinated subjects, all aged 8--36 months. Eighty percent of vaccine recipients shed >1 virus strain, with a mean of 7.6 days duration (17). One influenza type B isolate was recovered from a placebo recipient and was confirmed to be vaccine-type virus. The estimated probability of acquiring vaccine virus after close contact with a single LAIV recipient was 0.58%--2.4%. The type B isolate retained the cold-adapted, temperature-sensitive, attenuated phenotype, and it possessed the same genetic sequence as a virus shed from a vaccine recipient in the same children's play group.

I believe the same study said it was observed to shed up to 21 days.

Side effects listed:

Signs and symptoms reported more often among vaccine recipients than placebo recipients included runny nose or nasal congestion (20%--75%), headache (2%--46%), fever (0%--26%), and vomiting (3%--13%), abdominal pain (2%), and myalgias (0%--21%) (7,12,14,20--22). These symptoms were associated more often with the first dose and were self-limited. In a subset of healthy children aged 60--71 months from one clinical trial (8,9), certain signs and symptoms were reported more often among LAIV recipients after the first dose (n = 214) than placebo recipients (n = 95) (e.g., runny nose, 48.1% versus 44.2%; headache, 17.8% versus 11.6%; vomiting, 4.7% versus 3.2%; myalgias, 6.1% versus 4.2%), but these differences were not statistically significant. Unpublished data from a study including subjects aged 1--17 years indicated an increase in asthma or reactive airways disease in the subset aged 12--59 months. Because of this, LAIV is not approved for use among children aged <60 months (see Recommendations for Using Live, Attenuated Influenza Vaccine).

ETA:
Notice that this same page says:

No data are available assessing the risk for transmission of LAIV from vaccine recipients to immunosuppressed contacts

Isn't it funny that parents are pressured (or feel ethically bound) to vaccinate because they might get a disease that spreads to an immunosuppressed contact, yet this risk goes completely unstudied with a live attenuated influenza vaccine? What if little Johnny who gets FluMist sneezes on immunosuppressed little Billy?

[Frootloop]

Thank you so much for that information, Serenitii.. I greatly appreciate it.
I hope the kiddo is ok.. she just got back from the doctor with him. She's P*SSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Her doctor just checked his vitals, said he was fine, watch him overnight, and that he probably just picked up a virus today. Nope.. couldn't POSSIBLY be the vaccine.

He's very very fatigued and feeling terrible right now.

[cocoabean8]

Originally Posted by serenitii

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5213a1.htm



I believe the same study said it was observed to shed up to 21 days.

Side effects listed:



ETA:
Notice that this same page says:



Isn't it funny that parents are pressured (or feel ethically bound) to vaccinate because they might get a disease that spreads to an immunosuppressed contact, yet this risk goes completely unstudied with a live attenuated influenza vaccine? What if little Johnny who gets FluMist sneezes on immunosuppressed little Billy?

This information/study is from 2003. Surely some things have changed in the last 6 years.....They say it shouldn't be given to children less than 5, but new recommendations say anyone over 2. Do we have any newer information??

[RetroMom]

Same thing happened to my son a few years ago (before we stopped vaxing). He became very ill a day or so after getting FluMist and was sick for a week. I asked the Dr. if his illness could be related to the vaccine, and he told me that he probably just picked something up from the waiting room. He also said that one cannot get the flu from Flu-Mist.

Originally Posted by Frootloop

Thank you so much for that information, Serenitii.. I greatly appreciate it.
I hope the kiddo is ok.. she just got back from the doctor with him. She's P*SSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Her doctor just checked his vitals, said he was fine, watch him overnight, and that he probably just picked up a virus today. Nope.. couldn't POSSIBLY be the vaccine.

He's very very fatigued and feeling terrible right now.

[luminesce]

Originally Posted by cocoabean8

This information/study is from 2003. Surely some things have changed in the last 6 years.....They say it shouldn't be given to children less than 5, but new recommendations say anyone over 2. Do we have any newer information??

This information stands but they expanded use based on an additional study (see below.) It appears to me that the study confirmed some of the reservations about the use of FluMist in kids that young, but they made it the responsibility of clinicians to filter out high risk children with asthma (yet, they readily admit that they don't fully understand what the risks are in children this young) All questionable, if you ask me.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5646a4.htm

an elevated risk for asthma events (RR = 4.06, CI = 1.29--17.86) was noted among 728 children aged 18--35 months who received FluMist;

Although FDA licensure of FluMist excluded children aged 2--4 years with a history of asthma or recurrent wheezing, the precise risk, if any, of wheezing caused by FluMist among these children is unknown because experience with FluMist among these young children is limited.

Clinicians and immunization programs should screen for possible reactive airways diseases when considering use of FluMist for children aged 2--4 years, and should avoid use of this vaccine in children with asthma or a recent wheezing episode. Health-care providers should consult the medical record, when available, to identify children aged 2--4 years with asthma or recurrent wheezing that might indicate asthma. In addition, to identify children who might be at greater risk for asthma and possibly at increased risk for wheezing after receiving LAIV, parents or caregivers of children aged 2--4 years should be asked: "In the past 12 months, has a health-care provider ever told you that your child had wheezing or asthma?" Children whose parents or caregivers answer "yes" to this question and children who have asthma or who had a wheezing episode noted in the medical record within the past 12 months, should not receive FluMist. TIV is available for use in children with asthma or possible reactive airways diseases.

ETA: FluMist is contraindicated for many people. What if one of those people goes to the grocery store and stands in line with someone who received FluMist and picks up the vaccine virus? If it is unethical to skip a vaccine because I might give an at-risk person an illness, how ethical is it to give a vaccine that might give a at-risk person an illness?

[newmum35]

Here is what the manufacturer says about "side effects"

http://www.flumist.com/Flumist-Side-Effects.aspx

The most common side effects of FluMist in children and adults included runny nose or nasal congestion, sore throat, and fever.

Other side effects included chills, cough, decreased activity, decreased appetite, headaches, irritability, muscle aches, and tiredness/weakness.

A vaccine can possibly cause serious problems.

For a full list of side effects, please read the Product Information [PDF, 103KB, 4 Pages] for FluMist.

I find it really creepy that the side effects are the very same symptoms one would get if uh... one came down with the flu! The fact they refuse to accept that someone DID indeed get sick (with "flu-like symptoms") from the vaccine is mind-boggling to me. (especially since its even acknowledged by the manufacturer!) Oh yeah - must have picked up a bug in the office - couldn't have possibly been from the live virus (weakened) that we just sprayed up your nose! Now what would make you think that? Duh!!!

DO let us know if the siblings get sick, if you get sick etc,... I suspect the big boom in swine flu cases we are about to see in October/November is going to result from none other than the vaccine shedding, of course.

[ema-adama]

I was about to post about the listed side effects. It is very strange that those are listed side effects, but somehow it's coincidental when someone experiences those side effects. I guess not all doctors read the product insert. At least some parents are.

[Frootloop]

Originally Posted by RetroMom

Same thing happened to my son a few years ago (before we stopped vaxing). He became very ill a day or so after getting FluMist and was sick for a week. I asked the Dr. if his illness could be related to the vaccine, and he told me that he probably just picked something up from the waiting room. He also said that one cannot get the flu from Flu-Mist.

Why do doctors use that excuse? The whole "picked up a virus in the office" thing? I don't know how fast airborne viruses typically work (as in, from contracting the virus from someone else to the first symptom of illness), but do they typically completely take down a previously perfectly fine feeling child in a matter of a couple hours?

Originally Posted by serenitii

This information stands but they expanded use based on an additional study (see below.) It appears to me that the study confirmed some of the reservations about the use of FluMist in kids that young, but they made it the responsibility of clinicians to filter out high risk children with asthma (yet, they readily admit that they don't fully understand what the risks are in children this young) All questionable, if you ask me.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5646a4.htm


ETA: FluMist is contraindicated for many people. What if one of those people goes to the grocery store and stands in line with someone who received FluMist and picks up the vaccine virus? If it is unethical to skip a vaccine because I might give an at-risk person an illness, how ethical is it to give a vaccine that might give a at-risk person an illness?

Bolding mine -
My guess is it's because they feel that it's the unvaccinated person's fault for not getting the vaccine to prevent them getting sick in the first place.

The pediatrician did verify with my friend that her son didn't have asthma (this was not her usual doctor), which he doesn't. But, she does, along with a few other medical issues.. so, she's a little concerned about getting ill (but not concerned enough to get a shot for herself).

Originally Posted by newmum35

Here is what the manufacturer says about "side effects"

http://www.flumist.com/Flumist-Side-Effects.aspx


I find it really creepy that the side effects are the very same symptoms one would get if uh... one came down with the flu! The fact they refuse to accept that someone DID indeed get sick (with "flu-like symptoms") from the vaccine is mind-boggling to me. (especially since its even acknowledged by the manufacturer!) Oh yeah - must have picked up a bug in the office - couldn't have possibly been from the live virus (weakened) that we just sprayed up your nose! Now what would make you think that? Duh!!!

DO let us know if the siblings get sick, if you get sick etc,... I suspect the big boom in swine flu cases we are about to see in October/November is going to result from none other than the vaccine shedding, of course.

Originally Posted by ema-adama

I was about to post about the listed side effects. It is very strange that those are listed side effects, but somehow it's coincidental when someone experiences those side effects. I guess not all doctors read the product insert. At least some parents are.

Bolding mine -
YES!!! I read the same site this morning! The side effects sound exactly like the flu to me, too.. yet, even though he has the same symptoms, they couldn't possibly be from the vaccine. Do the doctors really feel that parents will never find accurate information OR are they that clueless about what they're giving people?

I guess the ped. was very condescending to her when she asked him about his symptoms, which really isn't a very good idea. She's not letting this drop.

I will talk to her again sometime this morning and get an update on him and I will definitely let you know if any of us do get sick.

Thank you so much for your input!