Anyone with OLDER intact sons - please respond!

[MrsReady2bMama]

Hi all,

Yes, gearing up to argue it out with my husband at some point over the next six months on the chance this one is a boy.

Please, those of you who have intact sons who are older - who have had the opportunity to 'compare' with friends, see other kids in the shower, get teased, even just see that they are different than dad, whatever - can you post about these experiences and how they were handled?

I just can't get over how many comments I see from those who circ'd who 'insist' that the boys will *wish* you had taken care of this for them when they were babies, b/c boy are they mortified now...

It would be especially helpful if your kid is say over age 10 or so...

TIA!
Gina

[orangefoot]

I have an intact 16yo and as far as I know he has never had do talk about his foreskin with anyone.

He has only one friend who is circumcised and he is American. He can't remember exactly how this came up in conversation but he hasn't seen it or compared it to his own.

Who are all these people who think that boys spend their whole time comparing penises? (peni?)

Talk to your dh about it now and tell him that it won't be happening to your child if it is a boy.

[LavenderMae]

My oldest son is only 8 so I'll tell you about my 15 yr. old intact nephew. He has never been teased and has told his mom he's happy they didn't do that to him. He's talked to me about it a little (he used to come to my house after school a couple days a week, I often had a baby story on so it came up) and he seemed pretty glad he is intact and pretty horrified by the thought circumcision. He never mentioned any comparing but I got the impression it would not be okay AKA cool to talk about another boy's penis, not surprised by that.

[Fellow Traveler]

Well how about an intact guy? I have never heard a word of lip about it but I'll add some aditional observations.

1. There will almost certianly be at least a few more intact boys around.
2. Even if there aren't (which may be true in some areas unfortunately) kids today will have better knowledge. That is to say 10 or more years ago you might have had the combination of being the only intact boy and nobody knew what circumcision was either. Even in places where circumcision is common most will know they weren't born like that. This would reduce any potential issue.
3. In my experience there were few situations where boys see each others penis but perhaps because of over protection or some odd increase in shyness there are increasingly few of those situations.

For example to number three nobody showered after gym, not enough time. I did shower at summer camps though a funny thing, the years I was there I saw substantial increase in the use of bathing suits in the shower by younger members. I recently heard that many camps (scout camps are where I was) are now building showers with stalls. The county pool I go to host swim teams of all ages through high school and any time I've been in the lockerroom while one of the teams were changing, they either change with a towel or in a bathroom stall all of them (I've even seen many adults duck into stalls to change), and they don't shower perhaps because the showers are the gang showers. It seems that from that experience (county pool) there is no nudity between say 10 and say early 20s, where there is nobody says anything. For some reason people are seem increasingly shameful and I doubt there will be many situations where someone makes any comment to your son.

[Yulia_R]

My son is 4, but...

He knows what circ is, feels sorry for those babies who get circ'd. I'm sure he will always be proud of the fact that he is whole.

[Yulia_R]

By the way, I love a comment from one intact guy:

"dude, let's get it straight. you are laughing at me because part of your d*** is missing?!". That should pretty much finish teasing if it ever takes a place.

If for some reason it doesn't, I'd print out "function of foreskin and damage of circ" and let my son to hand it to the teasing guys (and perhaps to the girls) in his class. That should take care of it for good.

[Fyrestorm]

How about a 19 year old who played sports in HS and is now in the navy and is still disappointed that he never got to use any of the lines he had planned to use if someone ever commented.

"Dude. why are you looking at my junk"

and

"Someone cut off the best part of your junk and you're laughing at me?"

But, alas, 3 years of middle school sports, 4 years of HS sports, navy boot camp and 1 year in the navy and he's never been able to use them.

[betsyj]

My son is only 16 mos but not one of my friend's circ'd their sons and none of them are patricularly crunchy. So I am guessing it will be a non issue.

[Krystal323]

I think it's becoming more and more the norm to have un-circ'd boys in America, no?? I thought the numbers were something like 40-ish percent to 60-ish percent intact vs. not....?

My son is 10 and we've not run into any "weirdness" about his being intact. I have a good friend with older intact boys, and it's never been an issue for them either.

My dh is from Europe, so he was just as horrified about circ as I was, heh. Good luck for the fight!

[Drummer's Wife]

My intact boys are only 6, 4, and 2 so they haven't had a chance to really compare penises with others but I wanted to say DH is an intact 29 yr old who grew up in CO, and he can't recall being teased, or feeling odd b/c of it

When do other males really look at each others penises anyway? I cannot fathom that being a valid reason for circ'ing, even if it really happened often...

[Night_Nurse]

Originally Posted by MrsReady2bMama

Hi all,

Please, those of you who have intact sons who are older - who have had the opportunity to 'compare' with friends, see other kids in the shower, get teased, even just see that they are different than dad, whatever - can you post about these experiences and how they were handled?

I think Dancindoula addressed it best when she responded in another thread. Please click to read her response:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=#post14391207

My son has never noticed (or if he has he hasn't mentioned) the difference between his penis and his dad's. My circed DH said he never remembered any intact boy being teased in high school or college. My intact dad has never mentioned any teasing (not that my dad really mentions that kind of thing but if it were an issue he would have mentioned it when learning our son would be intact). I have a friend whose son is now a high school senior and she said it was never an issue with her son either. I've also dated two intact men, both born and raised in the US, who never mentioned problems with teasing or women having negative reactions. Honestly, I think men who "worry" about the foreskin of their son being problematic are just worrying over nothing.
Kids will be teased for a variety of things. I'd guess the majority of us where teased by peers for something during our childhood. But from what I've heard from those I know, the foreskin "issue" really isn't an issue at all. Your child is probably more likely to be teased for being too smart, too short/tall/fat/skinny or wearing glasses. And you'd just teach him good self-esteem and positive body image for those things, right?
And it you're going to bring it up to your DH/DP, I'd do it now rather than closer to delivery. Some men need some time to digest it all and come to realize intact really is okay.
Good luck!

[glongley]

I've asked both my intact sons about this. Here's what they have told me.

Older son (now 25) - said he was never teased by anyone. I asked him what he would do if anyone ever made a comment about not being circumcised. He said he would just ignore them. Obviously, he's quite comfortable in his body and not going to let anyone else's stupity bother him. He has thanked me for not circumcising him.

Younger son (now 23) - came to me when he was 15 and told me he wanted to get circumcised. I ask why and his reasons were very vague, so I presumed it had something to do with adolescent body angst. I ended up explaining to him in detail about the value and function of his foreskin, and what circumcision actually entails - and he got over it. He has since told me that the reason was that he was concerned about what girls might think - although apparently nobody has ever actually said anything to him about it - he just worried that they might. But when he got together with his long-term girlfriend and now fiancee, they talked about it, and decided that anyone who would judge someone based on whether they were circumcised or not would be a pretty shallow person. He has since thanked me for not circumcising him.

So in my experience, the likelihood of being mercilessly teased, rejected by females, being permanently emotionally damaged for having intact genitals just doesnt' happen. SOME boys in our circumcising culture MIGHT have a bit of self consciousness about it, but this is not a cause for preemptive amputation, but for parenting skills - teaching them about their bodies, teaching them about how to handle bullies (a skill necessary for many other reasons), and just generally raising resilient kids with high self esteem and common sense.

Gillian

[Storm Bride]

My son is 16. He never had any issue about "looking like dad" (I will never understand this argument for circ...for a hair transplant, it might make sense). He's also never had any teasing or anything like that. (To the best of my knowledge, my 46 year old brother was never teased, either...and circ was nearly universal around here back then.)

I also don't understand the "he'll want to be circ'd later" thing. If a man wants to be circ'd, then he can get circ'd! They can't put a foreskin back on, though.

[Dev]

Originally Posted by glongley

So in my experience, the likelihood of being mercilessly teased, rejected by females, being permanently emotionally damaged for having intact genitals just doesnt' happen. SOME boys in our circumcising culture MIGHT have a bit of self consciousness about it, but this is not a cause for preemptive amputation, but for parenting skills - teaching them about their bodies, teaching them about how to handle bullies (a skill necessary for many other reasons), and just generally raising resilient kids with high self esteem and common sense.
Gillian

Well Said Gillian !

[MyBoysBlue]

I once asked my husband, not long after I first learned what circ was, if he had ever been teased or if anyone ever commented on the fact that he was intact. He was surprised. He said that if you ever notice someones package you better not comment on it because you open yourself up to ridicule that way. I asked if any of the girls he was with commented and he said nope they didn't say anything.

[eepster]

I wasn't quite sure how much older you meant by older, but DS has commented on both DH (who was circ'd ) and I when he has seen us in the shower or using the bathroom (it's amazingly hard to get privacy with a preschooler.) He has never commented on DH beyond "daddy has a winky" (yes we use euphemisms.) However, he has questioned me at great length as to why I don't have a winky!

DH, DS and I don't all match each other in so many ways (we are a biracial family, so we have quite a bit of variation going) why would this single aspect be one of great issue above and beyond the others?

[gillibean]

My 8 son is only 8 and it hasn't really come up with him. This isn't exactly what you asked but I'd like to share it anyway. I dated a guy for a while and the circ issue came up. He was very angry that he had been circ'd. His was a different situation because the hospital just did it without asking his parents. He was angry that he didn't have the choice. He would have much rather had possible teasing (which was quite unlikely anyway).

[Greg B]

My oldest son is almost 19, youngest is 16. Neither have mentioned any comments. Their cousins are all intact, btw.

In school, they do not take showers anymore, at least our schools. At the YMCA, they did, but no troubles as far as I am aware. And I will note that my younger son did get teased once for his underwear. Go figure.

Kids will tease. About someones mouth, ears, voice, shirt, etc. We do not advocate cutting off ears, hair, lips, etc just to prevent teasing. What if you did circ, and they got teased about being circ'd? Just as likely.

This argument is not a good justification for RIC. It does not even come close to outweighing the negative consequences of RIC. It is not compensation for loss of bodily integrity, the pain involved, the risk of infection and complications, the loss of sexual function, the loss of sexual feeling.

I would suggest that he should do some more homework. Here is a good reference for him:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

Regards

[K703]

I'm a 24-year-old intact guy and have never had any negative comments about my intactness.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by eepster

I wasn't quite sure how much older you meant by older, but DS has commented on both DH (who was circ'd ) and I when he has seen us in the shower or using the bathroom (it's amazingly hard to get privacy with a preschooler.) He has never commented on DH beyond "daddy has a winky" (yes we use euphemisms.) However, he has questioned me at great length as to why I don't have a winky!

My intact ds is only 7, so not "older," but this is exactly the situation we've had in our family. Completely uncurious about daddy's circed (and also larger and much more hairy) privates, but no end of fascination with and pity for poor Mommy who doesn't have a penis!

I think the concern with "matching" is far more about the insecurities of the men who want their sons to "look like them" and "avoid teasing." Those are just the surface rationales for a very deep-rooted need to avoid the potential emotional pain of considering the implications of their own circumcisions, which were a) involuntary, b) painful, and c) inflicted on them by their parents, not to mention d) permanently altering of their sexual sensations and functioning.

But as so many have said, we cannot possibly justify cutting off half of our sons' penile skin systems at birth to "match daddy" or "avoid teasing." One, our babies are their own selves, not clones of their fathers. Two, how can we justify cutting our babies to potentially avoid one or two bullies down the road? We WANT our kids to be strong and secure in their individuality, not sheeple who follow the crowd.

Can you imagine any other cosmetic surgery you'd perform on a baby or a child to avoid a bully in high school? A nose job? Ears pinned back? A boob job? LASIK for poor vision? Liposuction to get rid of fat?