or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › Family Safety › How important is it to have a 3 year old in a carseat on a plane?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How important is it to have a 3 year old in a carseat on a plane? - Page 3

post #41 of 63
I don't think it's safer for a baby/child to be in arms over a car seat IN AN AIRPLANE. But, the safety difference flying in arms IN AN AIRPLANE vs. riding in a car seat IN A CAR is such that flyling in arms is safer, statistically. And statistically, flying in a seat vs. in arms is not all that much safer in terms of preventing injury or death. It's marginally safer. Air travel all together is very safe.
post #42 of 63
Quote:
no carseat will save a child in a plane crash, and we've never ever ever experiences turbulence that endangered anyone
The first part of that sentence is absolutely wrong. The majority of crashes happend during take off and landing. You're assuming all plane crashes involved plunging out of the sky, they don't. How many people do you think that are injured during turbulence had had it happen to them before? Luck runs out, that's why they are called preventive safety measures.

I parent so that I can live with myself, whatever the outcome. My kid is not a statistic to me. That driving to the airport is far, far more dangerous does not mean that there is no need for a carseat in an airplane.

You all only know me on the internet, but as I've shared before, my husband's Aunt flew with her infant son on her lap and when the plane crashed (the majority made it out alive), her son turned into her airbag. After several decades living life with the intellect of a six month old, he died a few years ago.

Finally, my husband is a pilot and he would never let our infant/toddler fly without being strapped into a car seat and he wishes that was the law.
post #43 of 63
Thread Starter 
Thisbirdwillfly, thank you for sharing your perspective and your story. I am so sorry for your husband's Aunt and son. And I agree with you, no matter how small the chance, I couldn't live with myself if anything happened to my children. I'm going to put them both in their carseats.
post #44 of 63
I have to say, if your infant doesn't have a seat, is therefore a "lap baby" if there is issue or bad turbulance you will be made to put your baby on the floor! There have been accounts of people surviving a crash but walking around looking for their lap baby that was put on the floor. Not my kids. We flew to Portugal when DS was 1 and he definately had his own seat, with a car seat.

Kim
post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddoson View Post
I have to say, if your infant doesn't have a seat, is therefore a "lap baby" if there is issue or bad turbulance you will be made to put your baby on the floor! There have been accounts of people surviving a crash but walking around looking for their lap baby that was put on the floor. Not my kids. We flew to Portugal when DS was 1 and he definately had his own seat, with a car seat.

Kim
This is not true any longer. This is not current airline procedure. You will not be asked to put your baby on the floor. You will be shown how to brace yourself and your baby.
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccajo View Post
This is not true any longer. This is not current airline procedure. You will not be asked to put your baby on the floor. You will be shown how to brace yourself and your baby.
good to hear that, but the above post of the baby being an airbag is a huge issue for me. I know it's expensive and odds are things will be fine but boy, if they're not........
Kim
post #47 of 63
nm.
post #48 of 63
I agree that flying is very safe. I wanted to post little summaries of four relevant advisory bodies in the industry, FWIW to anyone reading since the question was asked:

The FAA recommendation:
http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/crs/

Quote:
"Did you know the safest place for your little one during turbulence or an emergency is in an approved child restraint system (CRS) or device, not on your lap?

"The FAA strongly urges parents and guardians to secure children in an appropriate restraint based on weight and size. Keeping a child in a CRS or device during the flight is the smart and right thing to do."
The AAP recommendation:
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...ics;108/5/1218

Quote:
"Preventable injuries and deaths have occurred in children younger than 2 years who were unrestrained in aircraft during survivable crashes and conditions of turbulence. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a mandatory federal requirement for restraint use for children on aircraft. The Academy further recommends that parents ensure that a seat is available for all children during aircraft transport and follow current recommendations for restraint use for all children."
The NTSB recommendation:
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/1990/a90_78_79.pdf


Quote:
"The Safety Board believes that, in addition to the increased risk of injury or death, unrestrained occupants jeopardize the safety of other passengers....

"...[As early as January 1, 1981] the FAA recognized the benefits of child safety seats and encouraged their use on board aircraft....

"...The Safety Board believes that the use of child safety seats should be required for children below the weight of 40 pounds and under the height of 40 inches...Infants and small children should be afforded equal or greater protection from death and injury during crash impacts and turbulence as afforded other persons on board commercial and general aviation aircraft...."
The Association of Flight Attendants recommendation:
http://www.afanet.org/Legislative/default.asp?id=5

Quote:
"For over 15 years, AFA has actively supported the use of mandatory child restraint seats for children under two on aircraft. Flight attendants have been joined by carriers and consumer groups in calling for the use of child restraint seats...

"Too many unrestrained children have been needlessly killed during crashes or injured during turbulence or emergency landings. It is time to provide children, under two yearsof age, the same protections as all other passengers. AFA will continue working to pass legislation that mandates the use of child restraint seats on aircraft."
My own opinion is that, economics aside, it makes no sense to have children less restrained than adults. The flight attendants strap themselves into rear-facing 5-point harnesses for take off and landing. I do understand needing to make decisions based on the real world cost of travel.
post #49 of 63
I gotta say, as a frequent flyer, I really hope they never make it mandatory for car seats on planes. I'm quite content with having it optional - there's no reason to make things mandatory based on such a tiny chance of danger.

Every passenger in the airplane is held by a lap belt. If safety during turbulence was really SUCH an issue, then EVERYONE would be strapped in with a belt that went from the shoulder down.

But, they're not.

Because the chances of anything happening are a lot less than any other (or most other) risks out there.

I just can't bring myself to that level of concern with safety. I mean, I am going to be flying with my child anywhere from 8 to 10 times per year. Dragging a car seat onto the plane is out of the question for me. I commend those of you who do drag those seats onto airplanes. But, if they made that mandatory ... I think I'd need to find a wealthier dp who had his own private jet, lol.
post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
Every passenger in the airplane is held by a lap belt. If safety during turbulence was really SUCH an issue, then EVERYONE would be strapped in with a belt that went from the shoulder down.
Not really--a shoulder belt prevents the upper body from moving; the lap belt is what holds you physically into a seat. Small airplanes do have lap/shoulder belts all around, and some have 4 pt harnesses.
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighten View Post
I disagree that it's safer for a baby or toddler to be in arms than in a carseat, and the FAA agrees with me.

So do others:

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/airplanetravel.aspx

If my child requires a carseat for the car, I believe she requires one for a plane. Turbulence is a much bigger concern for safety on an airplane, than a crash is.

The OP was regarding a three-year-old and a carseat. If it were my child, I would definitely use a carseat, since that's what we use in a car.

This is one of those scenarios where I would much rather err on the side of caution than live with a lifetime of regret. It's a personal choice, but to state that the safest place for a BABY is in arms is incorrect.
As far as I know no one has ever said it's SAFER to have a baby in a lap. It isn't. A car seat is probably safer. The issue is that this doesn't matter since there are close to zero injuries or fatalities to start with. It's like trying to protect your child against something which is not dangerous.

It's not that a crash or incident with a plane is not dangerous. What's important is that the occurrence is so rare. It's nothing like safety in traffic.

Comparing riding in a car with a baby and on a plane are completely irrelevant. These two situations have almost nothing in common. Impact forces, occurrence, risk, potential injuries are all completely different. It's another world.

It's true that a baby/toddler CAN be injured on a plane. Data from FAA and others show that it almost never happens. We need to protect out children from things which are dangerous. Flying with a child doesn't even make the top 500 list regarding in juries or fatalities. Traffic is the number one killer of children in United States which is why car seat on the plane and in the car are not valid comparisons.

25 kids were killed in 2005 (or was it 2006?) by a falling television set in US. Zero kids, or extremely close to zero, kids die each year from turbulence in the air despite 25 000+ flights each day and also the fact that at least 99% of parents fly without a car seat.

We should protect our kids from dangerous situations, flying just isn't dangerous with children which FAA show themselves very clearly with their data. Flying with a child might appear to be dangerous but it isn't. There is no data which suggest it's nothing but the safest thing we can ever do with our kids.

Almsot zero children are injured by turbulence while thousands are killed each year on roads.

Quote:
I have to say, if your infant doesn't have a seat, is therefore a "lap baby" if there is issue or bad turbulance you will be made to put your baby on the floor!
THis is not true. Many airlines today prohibit you from having your baby on the floor (like sleeping etc.). In an emergency that child stays in the lap/car seat
post #52 of 63
I worked for two airlines and one of them required lap babies to be placed on the floor. As far as I know (I'll try to check) this airline considers this the safest policy based on crashes they've had. If your child is not in a restraint, there are few safe options as to what to do with them.

There ARE children who have died in survivable crashes who could have lived if they had been in a car seat. Why is this not splashed all over the press? Tact and the possiblity of being sued. I'm sure you were suffering the loss of a small loved one in your family, you do NOT want the fact that your niece would have survived if your sister had brought the car seat on board.

Remember today that most people SURVIVE air crashes than die in them. Statistics are on your side and it's the little details, like paying attention to the safety demo and knowing where your exits are that could mean the difference between life and death.

Yes, there are actually a lot of families who are off-loaded every year because they couldn't control their child on taxi. The FAA is strict about this. If ONE passenger is up, we can't move. I once called the captain and had an entire 747 stop on the runway to let a very desperate 5 year old girl go to the lav.

Message to Sailor, "dragging" the car seat is NOT a big deal. I manage it with a metal luggage cart, flying between Europe and California about twice a year, with three closely spaced children NO PROBLEM. I do only bring one seat (parents have seats in California for the two older to use). In fact, it's easier since I throw all the carry-on's with the car seat and I don't have to lug the backpack on my back all the time.
post #53 of 63
I think it is definatly safer with a car seat. There was a crash in western canada a couple of years ago all over the media where a small private plane crashed and the dada nd grandfather dies, the only survivor was the toddler in the car seat.

I've flown many times with babies/toddlers and either they were in my lap or in the lap belt, partly due to cost, and partly due to the fact that once they have to have their own seat, it is not realistic that they are going to stay stapped into the car seat the whole time anyway on a 12 hour flight, with only bathroom breaks. it is so uncomfortable to be strapped in properly for that length of time. I can hardly stand the flight and I am not a wiggly 2 year old. The chances of injury are so low, but I do worry the whole time.
post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post

Every passenger in the airplane is held by a lap belt.
Every passenger except for babies under age two, which is what is so incongruous; the most vulnerable on the flight are the least restrained. Don't get me wrong, I understand the real world factors and reasons why, but still. It's not for the safety of the baby that it's like that.
post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by babymommy2 View Post
I think it is definatly safer with a car seat. There was a crash in western canada a couple of years ago all over the media where a small private plane crashed and the dada nd grandfather dies, the only survivor was the toddler in the car seat.

I've flown many times with babies/toddlers and either they were in my lap or in the lap belt, partly due to cost, and partly due to the fact that once they have to have their own seat, it is not realistic that they are going to stay stapped into the car seat the whole time anyway on a 12 hour flight, with only bathroom breaks. it is so uncomfortable to be strapped in properly for that length of time. I can hardly stand the flight and I am not a wiggly 2 year old. The chances of injury are so low, but I do worry the whole time.
I remember that crash! It was a small plane and everyone was killed but the toddler.

The only times the child MUST be strapped in is on take-off, landing and turbulence. You don't have to force them to stay strapped in the whole time. This is not a valid reason for not bringing a car seat. They are still safer in the seat and I had very active toddlers who still spent a lot of time walking the aisles or in my lap.

It's also really nice to be able to get up and go to the bathroom when your LO is strapped into his seat without the worry that turbulence could hit. I usually fly transatlantics alone so this is a g-dsend.

It's not realistic to keep a toddler in a seat for 12 hours but you don't have to!
post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhaleinGaloshes View Post
Every passenger except for babies under age two, which is what is so incongruous; the most vulnerable on the flight are the least restrained. Don't get me wrong, I understand the real world factors and reasons why, but still. It's not for the safety of the baby that it's like that.
That's true in US but it's not true in other parts of the world were a lap belt for kids if often used.

Quote:
I think it is definatly safer with a car seat.
THis is likely to be true but the issue is that despite almost no one using car seats on planes there are virtually no injuries due to turbulence and finding a child saved PURELY by using a car seat on a plane is almost impossible to find.

Using a car seat on a plan can make sense for many reasons (convenience, sleeping, calmer kids, car seat making it on time and in good condition at destination, etc.) but pure safety is not one of them. This is nicely proven by stats by FAA themselves.

The main goal when flying should be to protect your loved little one(s) at the ground at your destination since being in a cars is thousands of times more dangerous than flying with a child.
post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhaleinGaloshes View Post
Every passenger except for babies under age two, which is what is so incongruous; the most vulnerable on the flight are the least restrained. Don't get me wrong, I understand the real world factors and reasons why, but still. It's not for the safety of the baby that it's like that.
When I flew with KLM to Europe I got an extra belt that I needed to attach to my belt to hold my lapchild.
I have also held my lapbabies in a babycarrier during flight, but they did not allow that during take-off and landing.

Carma
post #58 of 63
We fly 1-2x a year and I've never had the child in a car seat on the plane. She is 6 now. It's not important to me, but everyone needs to make their own decision about it.

I've usually checked a car seat with the baggage. They give you a huge plastic bag and I wrap it in that and there was never a problem. Once they didn't wrap it in the bag and we lost this extra pillow that came with the car seat. Otherwise, no problems.
post #59 of 63
I've been on over 200 flights in my life (and Im 23), and my dad flies 4-10 times a MONTH. Between us, there has NEVER been turbulance that I'd worry about a under-2 lap child getting hurt (its not hard to hold onto a baby in turbulance as long as you are awake!). Ds has always been a lap child on planes, we put his bucket seat in the overhead bin (snugrides fit!).

BUT for a child over 2 yrs old, that you have to buy a seat for anyways, I dont see why you wouldnt bring their carseat... It is safer than the lap belt things, although if the plane goes down, its not like that will make a huge difference. But it is much more comfortable for the child (and for you b/c you dont have an uncomfortable child climbing all over you),

AND my biggest concern would be what do you do with the carseat if you dont have it on the plane? I would NEVER check it into the main hold - I've seen how my suitcase comes back and I've seen the airport guys chuck stuff around! Plus I've had my suitcase sent to Shanghai before (on a trip from Hong Kong to CA). And if you gate check it, you've already carried it through the airport anyway, why not just put it on the plane too? Saves you from having to wrap it up and worry about it! (my carseat was put on the WRONG PLANE when we had a connecting flight when I gate checked it one time! I was SOOO MAD, lucky for me that plane hadn't left the gate yet, they held everything up and went and found it for me!

Its easy to carry it around if you get one of those $10 wheel cart things from walmart. I would bring the carseat on the plane for sure.
post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighi123 View Post
I've been on over 200 flights in my life (and Im 23), and my dad flies 4-10 times a MONTH. Between us, there has NEVER been turbulance that I'd worry about a under-2 lap child getting hurt (its not hard to hold onto a baby in turbulance as long as you are awake!).
I absolutely have been on flights with such severe turbulence, I wouldn't have trusted myself to be holding my baby. Several actually. I mean, this turbulence was forcing me up out of my seat, despite having the seatbelt as tight as it would go. I was also on a flight that had such a rough landing, the overhead bins opened and emptied into the asile and people's heads were slammed into the seats in front of them. However, I have also flown a lot; before kids I was flying 50+ roundtrips a year. But the turbulence and bad landings can and do happen.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Family Safety
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › Family Safety › How important is it to have a 3 year old in a carseat on a plane?