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Are there people who follow the New Testament but reject the Old?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
As I understand it, Christians follow both (despite the jarring differences between the texts and teachings).

Does any group reject the Old Testament? And if so, do they reject it fully (as a collection of myths, for example) or more that being saved means that many (all?) of the old laws are void?
post #2 of 15
what an interesting question! I've wondered that before too. I personally devote much more time and study to the New Testament. I don't disregard the old testament, but I don't take it as literally as many do... My church tends to focus on the New Testament as well, but we did recently have a sermon series on Genesis.

Maybe someone else can recall this better than me... but I believe Jesus refers to the old testament and confirms there is value in knowing them well. Like there is a place for them in the Kingdom (??) I don't believe he ever says anything about taking them literally or not - but I'm a newer Christian and still learning, so I hope someone else here with more knowledge can clarify this or correct me...


ETA: Oh, and I always thought that Jesus represented a new covenant, meaning the laws of the old testament were no longer "current". Geesh... I am really showing how green I am to all of this. Isn't this way, for example, Christians do not do religious circumcision? I can't wait to read more responses. Trying to respond to this just shows me how much I don't know. That's why I am loving this question!!! OK... looking forward to responses from people with real knowledge.
post #3 of 15
As far as I know, there's no mainstream Christian group that completely rejects the "Old" Testament. However, most mainstream Christians do reject certain aspects of the "Old" Testament- the dietary laws and circumcision being examples. "Reject" may be too strong a word, however- perhaps "view as no longer necessary" would be more accurate.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommal View Post
As far as I know, there's no mainstream Christian group that completely rejects the "Old" Testament. However, most mainstream Christians do reject certain aspects of the "Old" Testament- the dietary laws and circumcision being examples. "Reject" may be too strong a word, however- perhaps "view as no longer necessary" would be more accurate.
This
post #5 of 15
Yeah, as far as what Mommal said, its more a case of seeing the Old Testament in a different way

Quote:
"Reject" may be too strong a word, however- perhaps "view as no longer necessary" would be more accurate.
No longer necessary as in the Laws were fullfilled by Jesus Christ. I wouldnt say the Old Testament is no longer necessary bc there are SO many gems of wisdom, shadows of Jesus and His life, what he was going to do and God's plan for humanity in the Old Testament.

And the comment about the 'jarring differences between the texts and teachings', if you are looking at it on the surface of things, reading it without the help of the Holy Spirit, it does look that way, but Ive found, with the help of the Holy Spirit, I can see things at SUCH a deeper level, I feel we've just scratched the surface as far as anyone fully understanding the depth of what is really being taught in the Old Testament.


Thats just what Ive come to beleive about it anyway...

Im beginning to wonder if its so hard to understand the bible as a whole for most people, or so hard for people to accept it and what it says because it was written by men but completely and wholly inspired by God... just like they used to believe back in the day... I guess Im coming full circle on that one... sorry to go ot...
post #6 of 15
Interesting question that I've been thinking about a lot today since whether or not the Bible is God's literal word came up in conversation this morning.

I personally take the Old Testament as a collection of fables or parables that help us understand the world/God etc. And the New Testament, written by fallible humans, as God's word seen through the prism of the individuals' beliefs, agendas, experiences, etc.

I don't think either are the literal truth; both are tools to help us understand God. There is a BIG difference between the two, also. It can be hard to reconcile the message of love of the New Testament with the message of fear and punishment in the Old.
post #7 of 15
I'm an Orthodox Christian. The Orthodox believe (and this goes back to very early Christian times) that Christ is the fulfillment of the OT. He even says this himself. The OT law was a "shadow" of things to come. There's lot of this in the Epistle to the Hebrews.

The OT is a very important part of Tradition in the Orthodox Church. In it you find prefigured many of the events and many major people in the NT, not the least Christ and the Theotokos (Virgin Mary - Theotokos is Greek for "Mother of God).

For example, the Suffering Servant in Isaiah in points to Christ. Jonah is also a type of Christ, because he was in the belly of the large fish for three days, prefiguring Christ's being in the tomb for three days. Christ even uses this one Himself - telling the Jews against Him that they will receive no other sign than that of Jonah - Christ rising from the tomb after three days.

Joseph the Patriarch in the OT is also held to be a type of Christ.

Christ Himself taught how the OT should be interpreted in light of Himself on the post-Resurrection appearance on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:25-27) and to the Apostles (Luke 24:44-48). He also referred to Himself as the fulfillment of the Law.

Melchizedek is a type of Christ as well.

Psalm 1, "Blessed is the Man," speaks of the perfect man that follows God's ways - that is Christ.

Psalm 45 foreshadows the Theotokos, as does the Burning Bush in Genesis, Ezekiel 44:1-4, the dewy fleece in Judges 6:36-38, and of course, Isaiah 7:14.

You simply can't have the NT without the OT. You need to have read and understood the OT to truly get the NT. Otherwise, a lot of stuff doesn't make much sense (such as the Epistle to the Hebrews, which talks much about worship in the Jerusalem Temple) or you'll miss the meaning of. Psalm 22, recited on the Cross by Christ, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?," foreshadows the Crucifixion.

God's resting on the seventh day - the Sabbath - after he had completed the work of creation, foreshadows Christ's resting in the tomb on the Sabbath, after He had completed His work on earth.

The OT Passover foreshadows the Resurrection of Christ. When the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek about 250 years before the birth of Christ (this translation is known as the Septuagint), the Hebrew Pesach, the word used for Passover, became the Greek Pascha - the word the Orthodox Church still uses for the Feast of Feasts, Christ's Resurrection. Also see 1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast." Christ is the unblemished Paschal Lamb that was sacrificed for us, with none of His bones broken. See Exodus 12:10 and John 19:33, 36.

These interpretations of the OT through the lens of Christ are nothing new. They are very ancient. This is the traditional way the OT has been interpreted by the Church Fathers.

BTW, the quotes from the OT used in the NT are from the Greek OT (Septuagint). The Septuagint text varies in many places from the Hebrew text, particularly in the Psalms and the Prophets. I've done comparisons myself putting the new (2008) English translation from the Septuagint up against an English translation from the Hebrew (such as the RSV), and there is a lot in the Septuagint that is simply not in the Hebrew.

In the Nicene Creed (the largest portion of which came out of the First Ecumenical Council in 325 AD - the last section from the Holy Spirit on, were added at the Second Ecumenical Council), we say Christ "and on the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures" - those Scriptures were the OT. In various places in the NT, where St. Paul speaks of the Scriptures, he's also referring to the OT.

Early Christians who discounted the OT were known as Marcionites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionites
post #8 of 15
Ok, so I'm going to throw in a completely different perspective.

Dh and I are Christians, though I guess we might more correctly be termed messianic believers considering we have different beliefs from a great majority of mainstream christianity.

We 'do' believe that the OT law is for us today. Not that keeping it means we can acquire justification with God. However, we believe that it's the way God wants people to live today. Most of the OT law is about how to 'love your neighbour' (a very NT concept), how to love God (again, also in NT), and how to live a life which is set-apart (holy), and sanctified.

This is a journey that dh and I have not been on for long (just a couple of years), though certain parts of the OT we have adhered to for longer than that. We follow the dietary laws, keep the Sabbath and biblical holidays (as best we know how at the moment), try and treat people and look after them the way we should, plus other quite a few other things. We are constantly adding to our understanding, and therefore hopefully will be living to a higher and higher standard as time goes by.

I for one do not believe that the NT teaches the OT law as being 'done away with'. Yeshua/Jesus said that not one bit of the law would pass away until heaven and earth pass away. I believe he fulfilled it, in that he lived it in such a way that the standard was raised, and that he obeyed not just a bunch of rules, but lived it with joy from the heart, just as we are supposed to do, as well as explaining the real meaning behind the commandments.

I believe the NT teaches that we cannot be 'justified' by keeping the works of the Law, but I believe that all over the NT is written that we must obey God's commands (and the only commands on paper at the time of writing of the NT, was the OT scriptures) from the heart, with willingness and joy.

God's Law was given for our benefit - for better health, better relationships, closer walk with God, etc etc. The biblical feasts were given so that we would know God's 'calendar' for the unfolding events of the world...some history already, and some yet to happen. They were not meant to cause us bondage, but freedom, and personally I think that we're crazy to replace the wisdom of the ages with our own puny ideas, and decide that the OT and God's Law is now obsolete, when it was keeping the Law that was going to mean that the Israelites would not end up with the same diseases and problems as those in Egypt from where they had fled (Deut 28).

God's Law is there to protect and benefit those who will follow it, and IMO it's a simple matter of obedience as a 'Christian'. The NT often warns those who commit sin (biblical definition is 'transgression of the Law'), or who are 'lawless' (again, without the Law of God)...and the more dh and I learn from the OT, the more we see that the NT is pretty much a commentary on the 'Old', and that the OT is just as relevant today as it has ever been.

So no, as people who would be called 'Christians' because of our faith in Yeshua/Jesus, I can say for absolute sure that we do not reject the OT in the slightest, and try to live it to the best of our ability, and with the help of God.

And just to clarify again - we do not believe that keeping the Law earns our salvation. That is through faith in Yeshua/Jesus - however, we believe that to walk in God's ways, we need to follow His commandments.
post #9 of 15
There are lots of things in the Old Testement. propphesies, history, covents and laws for living and for pleaseing God. Clearly the prophesies were for whoever they were for and when they were fulfilled that too was recored. Always good to remember. History is just that, history. Clearly that is never obsolete. Covenents are for a specific people at a specific time. and while it is good to know them it is also important to know that God through Christ has given us a specific covenent. As for the laws we are not justified by them but it doesn't change the fact that the law of God reveals his heart to us. His nature. What he wants for us. To disregard thelaw flat out is to disregaurd God. Christ was clear that He did not erase one pen stroke of the law. As a matter of fact he calls us to step it up a notch. its not about salvation but if we love God we WILL keep his commandments. My children do not have to keep the family rules to be loved. I will not refuse to parent them, pray for them or hope for them should they become horrible lazy people who disregaurd my rules. but when they do obey several things happen. They become better people (I don't make these rules up for fun), the live easier, less painful lives. the people around them benefit as do they. and i look at them and think "what fabulous people!!!" it pleases me to no end. i feel loved. I feel respected and trusted. I have no doubt that it is the same way for God. we are free to blow off his law, justify it however we wnat and go about our lives acting like God doesn't give a crap how we treat ourselves or others or Him. After all we are not under the law doncha know......but I think we are fooling ourselves if we think that pleases God for one minute. We can say its what in our hearts that count but I have no idea what is in the heart of man who cares nothing for Gods law. Who cares nothing for what God thinks and feels. THIS is how God chose to reveal himself to people. THIS is what he wanted to communicate to them. He also communicated that over and over again he will redeem us and give us a fresh start. you can't see Gods repeated redemption and deep deep love unles you see his law as well. the whole old testement is a story of Gods heart for his people. He gives them the law with is all about "how to be healthy and happy" and then when they refuse to be healthy and happy he chases them down and redeems them and says "lets start new today" and the new testement is just the next chapter in that. I don't know how people can see two vastly different stories there.

Clearly Jesus knew the scriptures back and forth and quoted them freely. And while he did not get hung up on the law in such a way that he became a slave to it (the law was never about salvation and this was the problem. that people had a) forgotten that and b) the yused it as a weapon against others. they were missing the love that God sent with the law and what was meant as blessing had become a burden. THAT is what Christ came to free them from.

ok gotta go to church.......
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
To disregard thelaw flat out is to disregaurd God. Christ was clear that He did not erase one pen stroke of the law. As a matter of fact he calls us to step it up a notch. its not about salvation but if we love God we WILL keep his commandments.
Yep, that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
Clearly Jesus knew the scriptures back and forth and quoted them freely. And while he did not get hung up on the law in such a way that he became a slave to it (the law was never about salvation and this was the problem. that people had a) forgotten that and b) the yused it as a weapon against others. they were missing the love that God sent with the law and what was meant as blessing had become a burden. THAT is what Christ came to free them from.
And that.
post #11 of 15
I was taught growing up that the Old Testament was when you did a sacrafice for any sins you committed. And in the New Testament, Jesus was that sacraifice so it is not longer needed for you to do your own sacrafice, just believe that Jesus was that sacraficial lamb in your place.
post #12 of 15
There's no specific rejection of the Old Testament, but my experience growing up in a Congregational church is that the emphasis is placed almost 100% on Jesus and his acts, with the OT serving as a historical background but NOT outlining any rules or practices to follow.
post #13 of 15
oh what I didn't put in my last post is I think there actually is a Pretestant denomination that views the old testement as a historical book but doesn't read it, talk about it, etc. and their memebers mostly have copies of new testements but not old. i can't even remember a hint of which denomination it is though.
post #14 of 15
Very interesting conversation. Lilyka and Nikki74, thank you for your explainations. I have just recently been convicted to grow deeper in my faith and this is the direction I feel God is leading my family. Your words were very confirming. Thanks!
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2annabelle View Post
very interesting conversation. Lilyka and nikki74, thank you for your explainations. I have just recently been convicted to grow deeper in my faith and this is the direction i feel god is leading my family. Your words were very confirming. Thanks!


It's a very exciting journey!
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