Please send good wishes UPDATE: Need bullying advice & encouragement pls

[daisymama12]

My radar has been up lately since my DS hasn't been asking for playgdates, has been in a triangle-situation with two boys who I have just found out have been treating my DS (8) quite badly . They are his "friends".

I've spoken to both parents, one set are upset and said they would talk to their DS, the other I got no vibe one way or the other, just a "thank you" for the call.
I will be talking to their teachers on Monday, as the first mum asked me not to right away. She thinks talking to her son will change it around, before it gets turned into a "bullying" issue at school. I don't care about her request, but my DH said one day doesn't make a difference, and we want them to be collaborative, so why not make the call on Monday. Fine, one day to keep them onside.

Right now they are outside at second recess, and I am so anxious.
I'd appreciate any and all empowering, strong thoughts and vibes for my awesome little guy.

[mysticmomma]

I'd call today. :

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by daisymama12

My radar has been up lately since my DS hasn't been asking for playgdates, has been in a triangle-situation with two boys who I have just found out have been treating my DS (8) quite badly . They are his "friends".

I've spoken to both parents, one set are upset and said they would talk to their DS, the other I got no vibe one way or the other, just a "thank you" for the call.
I will be talking to their teachers on Monday, as the first mum asked me not to right away. She thinks talking to her son will change it around, before it gets turned into a "bullying" issue at school. I don't care about her request, but my DH said one day doesn't make a difference, and we want them to be collaborative, so why not make the call on Monday. Fine, one day to keep them onside.

Right now they are outside at second recess, and I am so anxious.
I'd appreciate any and all empowering, strong thoughts and vibes for my awesome little guy.

(((Hugs))) You got it!!

That's tough. You didn't ask for advice, but does he have other groups of friends elsewhere - in the neighbourhood or from extra-curricular activities? It can help to have different sets of friends, rather than rely on just a couple.

[daisymama12]

does he have other groups of friends elsewhere - in the neighbourhood or from extra-curricular activities? It can help to have different sets of friends, rather than rely on just a couple.

Yes, thank goodness. He has a good friend who moved to the 'burbs who we see regularly (i'm friends with the mum).

And we are leaving tomorrow to visit his best friend who lives 2 hrs away, & we're staying overnight. They have a great relationship that is very sustaining and important to both of them, so the trip is great timing.

I'd call today.

mysticmama, I know what you're saying, but we've decided to call the teacher on Monday for the reason mentioned above. I'm not thrilled about it either, but it's just one day, and on Monday we can make a plan for the week. Also, hopefully I'll be calmer by then. I'm calm and cool with my DS, but right now I feel like a bag of nerves.

[daisymama12]

* forget it...

[daisymama12]

bumping cause I could really use some advice / encouragement.

[babygrant]

Can you go to the school and watch from the other side of the fence to see what is going on? That's what we did when my son was getting bullied in the bus line at school and we knew exactly how to address the situation.

[mysticmomma]

Originally Posted by babygrant

Can you go to the school and watch from the other side of the fence to see what is going on? That's what we did when my son was getting bullied in the bus line at school and we knew exactly how to address the situation.

Sneaky... I like it!

[daisymama12]

I did that on Friday, but gleaned nothing.
These boys are far sneakier than that, one in particular. It is more psychological (stereotypically girl) bullying, I think.
I'm calling the teacher on Monday, but I don't even know how it [B]should[B] be hnadled.
I wish he'd walk away from these boys, but he considers them his friends.
I am honestly despairing. Ihavehard things going on in other aspects of my life, and am feeling so anxious and at a loss. I think I'm going to give my dr. a call On Monday as well.
I erased my longer earlier post bc of the lack of responses, and being as sensitive as I am feeling now, it upset me...

[rabbitmum]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

I don't really have any advice. My youngest son who is only 3 1/2 has the same problem and we have decided to take him out of kindergarten. I have really been worrying about what we could have done if he was older and in school.

I hope it will sort itself out for you soon!

[almama]

Here's some love and strength to you and your DS!!!

Have you read the Bully, the Bullied and the Bystander? It is an excellent read (after you get past the first shock chapter) and outlines roles for everyone to play in diffusing a conflict.

From what I have seen with my oldest (who is now 9), at 8 they need the safety net of parents willing to not let things go too far (as you are doing, which is great), but also skills to handle situations on their own. You may be doing this already, but is your son aware he can tell a teacher when things are getting hot? Does he know how to say to the boys, I don't deserve to be treated this way? Does he know how friends should treat each other? It is a really hard skill for them to learn (we are still working on it), and often hard to do "in the moment," but it will help him both now and in the future. What I say to my kids is: tell them you don't like the way they are playing right now, and if they want to change, they can come find them and they will be ready to play. It takes away the black/white of friendship. But, it is *hard* for them.

I hope your DS is doing better!!!!

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by almama

Does he know how to say to the boys, I don't deserve to be treated this way? Does he know how friends should treat each other? It is a really hard skill for them to learn (we are still working on it), and often hard to do "in the moment," but it will help him both now and in the future. What I say to my kids is: tell them you don't like the way they are playing right now, and if they want to change, they can come find them and they will be ready to play. It takes away the black/white of friendship. But, it is *hard* for them.

This. It's hard to change the behaviour of others. It's not quite so hard to learn that although we can't control others, we can empower ourselves.

I would have lots of talks with your son about what is a true friend. True friends don't deliberately hurt us, or make us feel bad, or treat us nicely at one time and then ignore or insult us another time. I'd also talk about trust - these boys haven't earned his friendship or his trust. They need to prove themselves to him - not the other way around. Use some of his favourite books as examples of good friendships - stories where the characters look out for each other and help each other, and if someone's feelings are hurt, there is an apology and making amends.

I'd foster his friendships with other children at school (maybe some playdates after school), and in other extra-curricular activities. His teacher can help with this - she can suggest other students to work with in class, involve him in some activities with other students, and step in if she sees hurtful behaviour happening with these 2 boys.

I'd use lots of role playing to work through problems with your son. Play act what to do if one or both of the boys is saying or doing something mean, excluding him, and making promises and failing to follow through. Give him some ideas on how to handle it. If they promise to do something fun at recess, but then run away from him when the bell rings, arm him with some suggestions of things to do - find another group to play with, take out a great toy or book, ask the teacher if they can organize a class game for recess instead, etc....

What sort of anti-bullying programs are in place in the school? Do they explore friendship, and more importantly, respect for each other's feelings? I don't think every child can be a friend to every other child (there are a lot of people I don't want to be friends with, lol, why should my kids have to like everyone they meet?), but every child can learn how to respect and treat people properly.

Best wishes for your boy.

[daisymama12]

thanks for reading and replying. as i said, I think I'm developing some very anxiety as this is the second very stressful thing in my life right now and I am waking up at nights, not eating, etc. Not healthy at all. I REALLY appreciate the replies, I know it's just a computer screen, but your responses are so meaningful to me right now. Other times I couldn't care less if no one replies, but I'm not in a good place right now. FTY, I'm calling my dr. tomorrow to help me with my stress levels.

ollyoxenfree and almama, I have been trying to have these talks, but my son doesn't seem to want to talk to me about it, which is what is making this so much harder. We had one good talk, though. We're at a friends house for the weekend, & he's having a really good time, but was up at 4 am and didn't fall back to sleep for 45 minutes which is the first time for him. More red flags. He also hates when I want to talk to him about this, which scares me. Do I need to get a therapist for him? Or someone else who he will talk to? He's somewhat reluctant with DH as well.

I do have the book by Barbara Colorosso, and have read and reread it.
We have talked about what a good friend is, alternative ways to deal with the situation, tried to role play, but I don't know how much he is absorbing or applying. I definitely am getting in touch with the teacher tomorrow. I want to meet on Tuesday, though, when my DH can be there too.

I really want to empower him to deal with this as much as possible.

I have suggested him inviting other kids over, but he doesn't want to.

Has anyone been through this and the child come out stronger? That would be very reassuring to hear.

I don't think every child can be a friend to every other child (there are a lot of people I don't want to be friends with, lol, why should my kids have to like everyone they meet?), but every child can learn how to respect and treat people properly.

I wish my son would make a clean break from them, but I'm not sure if that is what he wants. I would love it if he told them ENOUGH! and walked away, but obviously he's not feeling terribly strong right now.
He is such a delightful, friendly sweet child, and I'm worried what this is doing to his confidence and self-esteem.

[amcal]

I think the absolute most important thing you're doing is standing up for your child and backing him up 100%.

Have you considered talking to your son and letting him know that you won't allow this to continue and asking him how you can best help him?

Let him know that somehow it must stop so, what does he want you to do? Does he want you to role play with him on how to stand up for the boys? Does he want you to go to the administration? Does he want you to come sit on the play ground? Does he want you to talk to the other kids parents? I would empower him to get involved in getting the situation to stop.

I do have a positive story about a girl that came out of a bullying situation stronger. I have a dear friend whose daughter was emotionally bullied for over a year. The girl isolated my friend's daughter, manipulated her into doing anything and everything the girl wanted my friend's daughter to do. She would cry to the school yard staff saying my friend's daughter was "hurting her feelings" anytime my friend's daughter would try to play elsewhere or with someone else. It was a nightmare for my friend's daughter.

She did end up going to therapy to try to help her gain the skills to stand up for herself. Once the bully saw that she wasn't an easy target anymore, she moved on and my friends daughter is so much happier and stronger now.

[Porcelain Interior]

About not wanting to talk about it, I think you should respect that. My daughter isn't particularly talkative (unlike most teen girls) and when she got bullied by some of her inner circle friends it was like pulling teeth to get the details.

I found that I was much more angry/mad/sad than she was and that I was trying to resolve my own issues with the situation by continually bringing it up hoping to get more understanding- whereas she wanted to move on.

Sometimes continually bringing something up and harping on it is unhealthy. I think maybe your son is trying to forget about it.

I'd deal with the issues as they come and have talks about healthy friends, and how real friends act.

My daughter has moved on from the "mean girls" and doesn't give them the time of day, but it took a while. It's really sad, but I'm proud of her for not allowing them to use her as their joke.

[daisymama12]

Originally Posted by amcal

I think the absolute most important thing you're doing is standing up for your child and backing him up 100%.

Have you considered talking to your son and letting him know that you won't allow this to continue and asking him how you can best help him?

Yes I did tell him, and when I asked, he said he didn't know.

Let him know that somehow it must stop so, what does he want you to do? Does he want you to role play with him on how to stand up for the boys? Does he want you to go to the administration? Does he want you to come sit on the play ground? Does he want you to talk to the other kids parents? I would empower him to get involved in getting the situation to stop.

I totally agree, but as I said, he's been wanting to avoid the topic altogether, unfortunately.

I do have a positive story about a girl that came out of a bullying situation stronger. I have a dear friend whose daughter was emotionally bullied for over a year. The girl isolated my friend's daughter, manipulated her into doing anything and everything the girl wanted my friend's daughter to do. She would cry to the school yard staff saying my friend's daughter was "hurting her feelings" anytime my friend's daughter would try to play elsewhere or with someone else. It was a nightmare for my friend's daughter.

She did end up going to therapy to try to help her gain the skills to stand up for herself. Once the bully saw that she wasn't an easy target anymore, she moved on and my friends daughter is so much happier and stronger now.

Thanks for this. I'm not sure how this is all going to work out. I am determinded that this will end. Period. I really don't want to leave the school, since I like it, and my younger son is happy there, but I am looking at worst case scenarios, and we won't leave him there unless it improves dramatically. Soon.
IMO the best case scenario is like the girl you described, where he gets really strong and demands more from his "friends" and tells them where to go, and then makes new, way better friends. Have I mentioned how much I ADORE my son, and how sweet he is and how he doesn't deserve this?????

[daisymama12]

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior

About not wanting to talk about it, I think you should respect that. My daughter isn't particularly talkative (unlike most teen girls) and when she got bullied by some of her inner circle friends it was like pulling teeth to get the details.

I found that I was much more angry/mad/sad than she was and that I was trying to resolve my own issues with the situation by continually bringing it up hoping to get more understanding- whereas she wanted to move on.

Sometimes continually bringing something up and harping on it is unhealthy. I think maybe your son is trying to forget about it.

I'd deal with the issues as they come and have talks about healthy friends, and how real friends act.

My daughter has moved on from the "mean girls" and doesn't give them the time of day, but it took a while. It's really sad, but I'm proud of her for not allowing them to use her as their joke.

I see your point, and I will try to step back from "harping" on it. However, I am freaked out that he kept this to himself for this long, and I can't step back, action-wise, until I feel the situation is altered for the better. He's only 8, and he's quiet and sweet.

One of these kids makes sure that all 3 of them shake hands after recess to show "no hard feelings" for whatever wrongdoing has occured (luckily, it sounds like at least DS tells them what they are doing is wrong). I think this is a regular thing, protecting the 2 of them from DS telling - because they apologized, right? This is a sophisticated type of manipulation that my DS can't stand up to without help.:

My DH is out with DS now, they are going to the bookstore, and he is going to try to talk to him about how real friends behave, how to walk away, etc.

[One_Girl]

I think you should ask the teacher to refer your son to the counselor about this. Speaking directly to the school counselor may be an even better option if you feel like you are getting brushed off by the teacher. The school counselors in my area are very good at dealing with bullying issues and helping children understand what is okay for them to do when dealing with a bully. Tell them what you have noticed and your concern about your son's behavior and ask for ideas about dealing with this.

[Porcelain Interior]

Originally Posted by daisymama12

I see your point, and I will try to step back from "harping" on it. However, I am freaked out that he kept this to himself for this long, and I can't step back, action-wise, until I feel the situation is altered for the better. He's only 8, and he's quiet and sweet.

One of these kids makes sure that all 3 of them shake hands after recess to show "no hard feelings" for whatever wrongdoing has occured (luckily, it sounds like at least DS tells them what they are doing is wrong). I think this is a regular thing, protecting the 2 of them from DS telling - because they apologized, right? This is a sophisticated type of manipulation that my DS can't stand up to without help.:

My DH is out with DS now, they are going to the bookstore, and he is going to try to talk to him about how real friends behave, how to walk away, etc.

That's good, the bookstore discussion idea is good. I guess what I was trying to say is that sometimes us moms (and dads) can get so upset that we start projecting our own anxiety and stress about the situation onto the child, and this can happen without even words- they will feel it.

I think you're doing everything you can, and let me tell you it is not easy to be quiet and stop asking questions. I wanted a play by play every single day. Instead I had to just limit it to "Did you have a good day at school?" and then maybe "Is everyone getting along well?" or a quick "How was recess today?"

If you sense something awful happened for sure you should ask, but if you don't be very casual. These things usually work themselves out, you just have to be kind of on the sideline watching carefully and step in when necessary.

It's the most awful thing I've experienced as a parent, and I was 100% ready to pull my daughter out of her school if things didn't work out. I would never allow her spirit to be broken.

I hope things do work out for your son.

[daisymama12]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I think you should ask the teacher to refer your son to the counselor about this. Speaking directly to the school counselor may be an even better option if you feel like you are getting brushed off by the teacher. The school counselors in my area are very good at dealing with bullying issues and helping children understand what is okay for them to do when dealing with a bully. Tell them what you have noticed and your concern about your son's behavior and ask for ideas about dealing with this.

I'm hoping the teacher won't brush me off, she seems very good. We have a small school, no counselor.
I don't even know what to ask for from the teacher, though, except that I do NOT want the 3 of them sitting down for a fake forced apology (see hand-shaking BS), & where the two boys deny what DS says.

We are a fairly involved, well-liked family in the school. The school has a new principal who was brought on due to the ineffective addressing of bullying... but who knows until you're in the situation.