So my Pedi is kinda pushing for...

[NotBroken]

my son to get the polio vaccine, and for us (if not him) to get the pertussis vaccine.

I finally found a non-vax friendly pedi about 1.5 hours from my home. We went today for the initial visit and told her we weren't comfortable with making any decision on him getting vaxed yet. He is 24 months old and we stopped vaxing half way through his 2nd round of shots.

She is pushing for the polio vaccine although she said it was pretty much gone in this country, she said it was the socially responsible thing to do. Of course she said it was in our hands. She also pushed for us to get the pertussis vax stating it was a nasty disease that isn't uncommon in our area and it isn't diagnosable or really treatable and it lasts 3 months. She said we should get it and handed us a pamphlet showing that 80% of all children who get it, get it from there parents or siblings.

Before going in, I was pretty convinced I wasn't going to vax him any more at all, but knowing she is non-vax friendly and still asking that we get those is kind of making me think. I know in the back of my mind that I don't want all those toxins, but I am not fully studied on the subject - which is why I decided not to do anything right now.

I need some good info as to why I shouldn't get those vaccines.

[Fyrestorm]

Every Ped seems to have a pet vax...you seem tohave found two in a row that love polio. If you are not planning to travel to an area with endemic polio, why do you need it? It is not your child's responsibility to be socially responsible anyway..

There is no proof that DTaP prevents transmission. It's just a new tactic that they're trying out for size lately. I guess too many people are realizing how dangerous that one is to young children and opting out, so they are looking for someone else to sell it to.

Children under 6 months are in the most danger from pertussis. Your child is way out of that range. I'm not saying it wouldn't suck..but really, is the vaccine worth the risk?

[Marnica]

I agree...Polio is a strange one to have as a pet vax.

I would highly encourage you to read up on the history of the polio vaccine and the outbreaks that occurred here in the 50's. VERY interesting. Get the book "the Vius and the Vaccine"...http://www.wnyc.org/books/32070

Did you ped tell you that 95% of polio cases are asymptomatic or present like the common cold. Of the remaining 5% who experience paralysis, most fully recover, and only 1% have lasting permanent issues.

As for the DTaP, you couldn't pay me a milllion $$ to get that vaccine for my son. I know a woman whose baby died after getting this vaccine and it was called SIDS....

It is fairly ineffective in preventing WC anyway. Many Many kids who are fully vaccinated for WC come down with WC. It can be a long yucky thing to endure, but there are narural ways of treating it to lessen the severity and the length. The booster for adults is a marketing ploy to make $$$. Since it is very ineffective at preventing transmission, I don't see the point of taking such a riak.

[miriam]

The only cases of polio in the last thirty years in North America have been associated with the vaccine. So the only way to get polio here in the US in the last 30 years have been to get the vaccine or to stand next to a child who just got the vaccine.

The pertussis vaccine is statistically connected to SIDS in several studies and is not very good at preventing pertussis anyway.

[alegna]

Well... your ped doesn't know what they're talking about OR they're lying.

You see... the polio vax now in use in the US doesn't prevent carriage and transmission so it is no more "responsible" to get it than not. All it does is prevent paralytic symptoms if you get it.

AND... vax you for pertussis? Again- the vax doesn't prevent carriage and transmission.

-Angela

[Jugs]

She also pushed for us to get the pertussis vax stating it was a nasty disease that isn't uncommon in our area and it isn't diagnosable or really treatable and it lasts 3 months.

Huh? A quick swab of nasal mucous can be analyzed for b.pertussis.

As far as not being treatable, that's subtle manipulation; it sounds like one is powerless over pertussis. The truth is that for a generally healthy person, the only treatment necessary is to support the body's efforts to heal itself. Three months is a bit of liberal estimate; the coughing stage can last for as little as a week or two.

[FernG]

Some studies show that ppl who get pertussis are less likely to develop asthma. I would much rather DD have even an unusually nasty "3 month" bought with pertussis than a lifetime of asthma.

[CallMeMommy]

Originally Posted by alegna

Well... your ped doesn't know what they're talking about OR they're lying.

You see... the polio vax now in use in the US doesn't prevent carriage and transmission so it is no more "responsible" to get it than not. All it does is prevent paralytic symptoms if you get it.

AND... vax you for pertussis? Again- the vax doesn't prevent carriage and transmission.

-Angela

That's exactly what I was going to say - you can be vaxed to the gills for pertussis and polio, and you can and will still pass the disease around just like a nonvaxed person. Her reasoning is complete BS, either she thinks you're stupid and is trying to fool you or she's stupid and has no idea how the vax works (not that an "ordinary" person who doesn't know how it works is stupid, but you think a DOCTOR should know how it works).

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by alegna

Well... your ped doesn't know what they're talking about OR they're lying.

You see... the polio vax now in use in the US doesn't prevent carriage and transmission so it is no more "responsible" to get it than not. All it does is prevent paralytic symptoms if you get it.

AND... vax you for pertussis? Again- the vax doesn't prevent carriage and transmission.

-Angela

I haven't heard this before regarding polio! Do you have a link? I would love to forward that information on.

I think there was a cdc link referencing this same info on pertussis... does anyone have that link?

I need to bookmark those!

[bbrandonsmom]

I'd read a little more on pertussis, try insidevaccines.com. There's a breakdown of each vaccine disease on there too.
Ds got either 1 or 2 dtaps, and he also got pertussis, though it was pretty mild. My niece got it and it and she actually had the whoop-she was also vaccinated. Anyhow, wish I'd have known about this prior to getting the vaxs we did do. At 24m, I don't know why your ped is pushing those 2. She sounds like a bully-socially responsible. I'd show her some facts on both those vaxs and see if she has a good response.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I haven't heard this before regarding polio! Do you have a link? I would love to forward that information on.

I think there was a cdc link referencing this same info on pertussis... does anyone have that link?

I need to bookmark those!

Yeah... when they moved to the killed, injectible polio vax (IPV) they gave up the other "benefits" of the OPV. I don't have a link here, but it should be relatively easy to find as areas where polio is still prevalent use the OPV still for that very reason. They only moved to the IPV here after it was declared eradicated in the western hemisphere.

-Angela

[Carley]

Originally Posted by NotBroken

I need some good info as to why I shouldn't get those vaccines.

Consider looking into the epidemiology statistics for your area/state on your public health center's website. That will tell you what diseases circulate in your region so you can make an informed decision regarding vaccinations.

For instance, Washington State (where I live) has seen regular outbreaks of Measels, Mumps & Pertussis in the last 3 years mostly among children unvaccinated for philosophical reasons (a few were unvaccinated adults). Washington State has a liberal exemption program & our vaccination rates range from 50-70% any given year - among the lowest in the country. I can't depend on herd immunity, so we vaccinate against these diseases because there is a good chance we will be exposed to them.

It's all about informed consent, right? With infectious diseases knowing what's particular to you, your lifestyle & your region is really important. Someone in rural Antarctica will probably have different advice for you on the prevelence of mumps, right?

ETA: Someone who is ok with contracting these diseases is also going to have different advice for you. Someone might consider simply not dying of polio to be ok, whereas another person might not be ok with contracting polio to begin with, KWIM?

[Magali]

The whole socially responsible argument doesn't work for me. Socially responsible is helping people with food to eat, clean water to drink and decent living conditions...not shooting our kids up with vaccines (that in this case do not even prevent transmission).

[Ritske]

My (vaxed) DH got pertussis from a co-worker just after our DD was born. We did not get it from him and we weren't doing anything special. At 2 years, I wouldn't be worried about my DD getting it. I imagine it can be weary coughing that much all the time...especially when it causes puking, but IMO, better that than a shot of unknowns.

ETA: My entire family is unvaxed for polio (except for me). Only one person has ever had it. None of his many siblings got it from him and this is a man who was born in the 1920s. He's still alive, by the way.

[Deborah]

Just wanted to mention that just about everyone who lived through the polio period in the U.S. had polio. Only a very small percentage had symptomatic polio and of that group only a small group had paralysis. Of this small group many recovered with no problems, many more recovered with slight problems, a few had more significant problems and a tiny number died.

So the danger isn't the danger of getting polio. The danger is getting polio that results in paralysis and permanent damage or death.

And the curious question, for me, has always been why didn't they study the people who didn't have problems with polio in comparison with the people who did have problems with polio and figure out why it affected some people so severely and the rest of the population not at all.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Deborah

And the curious question, for me, has always been why didn't they study the people who didn't have problems with polio in comparison with the people who did have problems with polio and figure out why it affected some people so severely and the rest of the population not at all.

Most people came in contact with the polio virus (and for all we know, we still may), yet it caused no problems for the vast majority.

Did some people actually react with childhood paralysis due to the polio virus or was it as a result of being exposed to DDT and other such chemicals that were used freely during that time? All paralysis were compiled after the vaccine was brought on the maket, no matter what the case may have been. They were all renamed "Polio" then.

The chemicals were outlawed in the US and Europe at the time the Polio vaccine was introduced. They were shipped off to third world countries where they are still being used (and they still have chilhood paralysis in spite of being vaccinated).

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by NotBroken

I need some good info as to why I shouldn't get those vaccines.

Most importantly, because your mother's instincts tells you so. Why should anyone compromise social responsibility vs. poisoning ones child?

I wonder how much she studied the subject of vaccines? I bet she knows only half of what you know up to now and you said you didn't research the subject very well yet.

Don't rely on her cursory glances at the subject. Get informed for yourself. You are the mom.


Good article -
http://www.ivanfraser.com/articles/h...ccination.html

[Jugs]

For instance, Washington State (where I live) has seen regular outbreaks of Measels, Mumps & Pertussis in the last 3 years mostly among children unvaccinated for philosophical reasons (a few were unvaccinated adults). Washington State has a liberal exemption program & our vaccination rates range from 50-70% any given year - among the lowest in the country. I can't depend on herd immunity, so we vaccinate against these diseases because there is a good chance we will be exposed to them.

Which is interesting because my state also has outbreaks, despite having a very high vaccination rate and very strict exemption laws.

[bbrandonsmom]

Originally Posted by Jugs

Which is interesting because my state also has outbreaks, despite having a very high vaccination rate and very strict exemption laws.

Where are you looking for this info-cdc? I lost all my bookmarks, so can't remember where to check for this.

[Carley]

Originally Posted by Jugs

Which is interesting because my state also has outbreaks, despite having a very high vaccination rate and very strict exemption laws.

That is interesting! Were the people infected in the outbreaks vaccinated?