So my Pedi is kinda pushing for... - Page 2

[leila1213]

Doesn't sound to me like this doc is 'non-vax friendly' at all.

[Jugs]

Depends on the disease. Those affected by the measles outbreaks were mostly unvaccinated or hadn't had 2 doses of the vax. The pertussis, mumps and chickenpox outbreaks were among both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

[dubfam]

Am I the only one who sees the ads for the CDC and Vaccinations all over the page???? What the heck????

[boheime]

Did you ask the ped how she knows pertussis is common in your area if it can't be diagnosed? She's making stuff up to use as scare tactics.

[Plummeting]

Pertussis is very common all over the country. A few years ago, the CDC estimated there were only about 25,000 cases a year or something like that. Then the actual research showed that there were actually between 800,000 and 2 million cases per year. The reason is that pertussis vaccine is incredibly ineffective at preventing infection in vaccinated kids and most adults aren't vaccinated. It works somewhat to reduce the symptoms, which means that people catch it and spread it all around because they don't realize they have it. They think it's just a cough that won't go away. For the past couple of years, even the CDC has been calling fully vaccinated children "silent reservoirs" of transmission. If the vaccine were preventing infection in fully vaccinated children, that would not be possible.

Because of that, if you're interested in reducing your son's likelihood of having a severe case of pertussis, you'd really need to vaccinate HIM, since the vaccine probably won't prevent you from giving it to him. (It could - it just doesn't work that well for most people.) However, vaccinating him would reduce his risk of having a severe case.

Honestly, having dealt with pertussis in an unvaccinated (against pertussis) infant (5.5 months old), I just don't find it scary. She coughed really hard about 10 times a day - so hard she'd vomit every time, and it would be a nasty mix of huge amounts of mucous and breastmilk. But in between those times she was completely normal - no fever, no signs of illness, no other coughing, nothing. It's not something I'd like my kid to experience - who likes their kids getting sick? I don't even want my child to have to have a cold! - but to me, it's the better option than the risks I believe are associated with the shot. That is definitely a personal decision, though, and it's certainly true that pertussis can be very serious in infants. It just isn't usually.

As to the polio vaccine and social responsibility, that's just hogwash. http://books.google.com/books?id=Vtc...ission&f=false

IPV does not prevent infection of the intestine, however, so infected individuals can still spread the virus to others.

This is just a well-known, accepted fact of the IPV vaccine. That's why they use OPV in places here polio is still endemic. You can't stop the spread of polio with IPV, so it's pointless using it when you're trying to eradicate the virus. There has been some talk of giving two doses of IPV followed by one dose of OPV to end the issue of OPV causing paralytic polio (the IPV would induce serum immunity, thereby preventing OPV from causing paralytic polio), but there is NO talk of ending the use of OPV. You could NEVER eradicate polio using just IPV, because IPV allows the continued transmission of the virus.

http://www.polioeradication.org/vaccines.asp

Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) needs to be injected and works by producing protective antibodies in the blood (serum immunity) - thus preventing the spread of poliovirus to the central nervous system. However, it induces only very low levels of immunity to polivirus locally, inside the gut. As a result, it provides individual protection against polio paralysis but, unlike OPV, cannot prevent the spread of wild polio virus.

You can find info supporting that all over the internet, it's just not something that people who know anything about polio vaccines and the effort to eradicate polio are going to argue about. Facts are facts and all that jazz, and they'd look pretty silly claiming IPV is "socially responsible" since they know it just doesn't work that way.

If you are afraid of polio, however, then IPV is associated with very few side effects and has a great safety profile as far as vaccines are concerned. It's not one that I personally am at all afraid of giving, and we don't vax. If we were going to be in a situation where there was a high likelihood of exposure, we might get it, just because I personally think that in such a situation, the benefits might outweigh the risks.

[jessjgh1]

I'd tell her when you can ONLY get the pertussis, and not the DTaP (combo shot) you'd consider pertussis.

Jessica

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

I'd tell her when you can ONLY get the pertussis, and not the DTaP (combo shot) you'd consider pertussis.

Jessica

You can't only get a pertussis shot....doesn't exsist

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by Marnica

You can't only get a pertussis shot....doesn't exsist

I think that was her point.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by leila1213

I think that was her point.

Thanks for getting it. I didn't mean to be blunt.. It made more sense when I was thinking it....
Ok, the shot is combined together from the individual components, and it is my understanding that the Pertussis is made separately and then combined in a way that would make it very easy to make it a single shot. So why isn't it?

At one point (dr sears vax forum) I posted and asked why there wasn't a single vax for pertussis since it was one of the riskier diseases and my memory of the response was essentially that he could get behind that and would love to have that option. It seemed this had come up and doctors have asked for a single shot- both because they want it and because their parents are asking them for single shots and spacing/delay. Drs do see reactions to the DtaP- I read enough 'DTaP/pertussis scream' stories to be reluctant or Crying Syndrome or Screaming Syndrome after shots or encephalitis. Of course, it could be the pertussis component that causes that and a single dose may just make that clearer. That's why I only said I would consider a single dose shot.

It seems our vax schedule is based on convenience for doctors and companies, not completely on the exact best health for children. I've seen enough posts of drs pushing vaxes to a child that is sick just to keep them "on schedule", like a parent can't be trusted to come back when the child is healthier or the office would get too confused if a sick 2 month old needed to delay their shots till s/he is healthy at the next appointment? Actually, I remember my first pedi bullying me into the Hep B at the hospital (I wanted to wait) and then using this AS A REASON--- if I didn't have the shots they might mess up his chart, forget to write something down, and then he'd need 2 shots??? So I darn well made sure they did his chart right while being selective before I totally started questioning vaxes and have since stopped to keep researching and learning.

To me the risks of the combined shots were not enough (for baby #2) and my (new) doctor didn't feel that diphtheria was a big risk and he felt that babies DON'T need tetanus- that one could be easily delayed, just like Hep B (he gives me no grief about avoiding those in infancy). I'd really have to think long and hard and research a lot more if there was actually a single dose pertussis (if I had an infant again). Not saying I would get it (especially not knowing what it would be) but I'd actually have to give that one some consideration.

That was long winded.... but I feel like I have found many chinks in the vax policy 'armor' and it has made me skeptical in general.
Hep B and tetanus in infancy is one chink.
Chickenpox being mandatory another. -Not accounting for the natural cycle between chicken pox and shingles. -Not accounting for the fact that chicken pox is a shedding vax (parents shoudl be told to not expose their recently vaccinated child to those unvaccinated/at risk, for example
Pushing more and more combination vaxes for convenience
Poor testing methods and only studying short term effects
This may or may not be helpful to others. (actually since my thought process is notoriously windy and convoluted, it probably wont' really help much). I don't think our vax schedule is 'good' public policy, I'm skeptical of the one-size-fits all approach, I'm looking at each disease, at each shot and trying to figure it out for my family. Just as we all should

That's one of the ways I think about it, I wouldn't' want to hijack this thread but there are many around here that are well informed on this issue, much better than I am, so anyone feel free to send my your thought or corrections even through pm-- one reason for me to post is to learn be challenged or corrected, and even (hopefully) to see that others think similarly and I'm not totally off base.

Jessica

[ChesapeakeBorn]

Originally Posted by Carley

Consider looking into the epidemiology statistics for your area/state on your public health center's website. That will tell you what diseases circulate in your region so you can make an informed decision regarding vaccinations...

Does anyone know how to find this information?

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by Magali

The whole socially responsible argument doesn't work for me. Socially responsible is helping people with food to eat, clean water to drink and decent living conditions...not shooting our kids up with vaccines (that in this case do not even prevent transmission).

I totally agree.

Plus, taking care of our bodies and immune system with exercise and healthy diet, reduction of stress, is socially responsible as not to burden society, the health care system, insurance, and the premiums we must all end up paying to compensate for other people who don't take care of themselves. Granted some folks are dealt an unlucky hand and do need vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs, but the majority of disease could be prevented just by caring for our bodies properly and basically.

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by ChesapeakeBorn

Does anyone know how to find this information?

http://www.edcp.org/html/counts_rates.cfm

[ChesapeakeBorn]

Jugs, thank you so much! That is very helpful.