I don't know what to do!

[dislocator3972]

I've had so many nursing problems and nothing seems to be getting any better. If I hear "Stay encouraged!" one more time I'm going to vomit.

My LO is 3 weeks old and all she wants to do is nurse. My nipples look like hamburger meat and hurt ALL THE TIME. She has an incredibly shallow latch and can only latch onto me without the nipple shield maybe 30% of the time. People kept telling me that she is just building my supply, but she spits up during and after every feeding, so what would she need MORE milk for? She eats until she gets sick as it is!

Originally, I wanted to wait and not give a pacifier until around 8 weeks, but I can't do this much longer. When she is awake she is either nursing or crying, and today I'd rather she be crying.

I just can't do this anymore. Her latch is SO PAINFUL. I've been told that it isn't supposed to be but it is. I have a lactation nurse that has been coming out once a week but her latch isn't any better. If anything it hurts more because she's learned that she can take the nipple shield with her when she turns her head and she can keep sucking so she tries to do that with me too.

I've also been to an LLL meeting and I've been speaking with a leader about my issues but she just seems to give me all the same stuff I've been reading in books. And I don't want emotional support, I want the problems gone. Maybe my desire to disengage is proof that I do need emotional support.

She's upstairs crying with DH right now. She's been nursing for about three and a half hours (a pretty normal evening for us) and she's really upset that she isn't nursing now. I don't think it's possible that her stomach could still be empty, and she wont sleep for more than 10 minutes.

DH thinks that letting her cry it out would be better than getting her a pacifier because crying it out won't teach her bad habits. I figure her latch can't get worse but her opinion of us and ability to trust can.

I wish I could let her nurse while she wanted to but I'm in so much pain that I've started yelling and jerking away from her and I'm afraid I'm going to end up grabbing at her mouth or something.

I'm ready to go buy formula and get her off me altogether. At least that way I could get some sleep and maybe be a good mother to her instead of trying to avoid her and get away from her every chance I get.

What do I do?

[Fujiko]

I hope someone more knowledgeable jumps on here quickly, but in the meantime I'd give her a pacifier!

Do you think she is getting a full feeding?

My daughter would nurse to the point where she would get overfull of milk and vomit it up. I figured out she wanted to nurse above and beyond what she wanted to eat. So I gave her a paci and held her close. She eventually stopped using the pacifier on her own at 9 months or so. She was a bit older than your dc though. Three weeks is young. Still, a paci is better than having to stop breastfeeding because of this.

Again, I hope somebody with more insight and experience can jump on and help.

[spicyrock]

Mama, people might disagree heatedly with me- but I say, give that baby a pacifier. When you see the LC, check to make sure she is actually getting the milk down her throat and work on her latch- but it sounds like you have a baby who needs to suck more than you can handle right now (and who could handle it? that baby's got gusto!).

We introduced the pacifier early, and it caused no problems for us at all. I have heard people say it made their babies' latches worse, but that was not my experience. And dd made it very clear when she did not want the pacifier- when she was hungry, for example, or when she really wanted mama.

In any case, it sounds like you are at your wits' end. A paci can be compatible with nursing- if you need one to help you get through this tough stage, do it! And don't feel guilty or embarrassed about it, either.

Good luck, mama!

[PatioGardener]

Has she been assessed for a tongue-tie by someone who would know a posterior tongue-tie? Babies with tongue-ties often nurse in a way that hurts mother's nipples, often they have to nurse all the time because they are not good at transfering milk, and sometimes they don't gain weight well - even with all that nursing. If any of this sounds familiar, check out the tongue-tie sticky at the top of the Breastfeeding Challenges forum

You may get some recommendations for a good LC in your area too.

[zuzunel09]

Wow, your problems sound like mine except my son is 6 weeks old and I'm still in a lot of pain. I passed through the hamburger stage, my nipples healed, but then they got bad again. Right now just the nipple is inflamed. I suspect I have a thrush problem going on but my doctors and my son's ped won't help me there, they just tell me to either keep going until my son's mouth gets bigger, or go to formula. I don't know if pumping full-time is an option till you are healed, but I am considering doing this with a rented hospital pump just so my son can have the milk during the flu/swine season.

I know you don't want emotional support, but I feel your pain! I find giving my son a pacifier at the tail end of a painful feeding really helps. Most of the time they just want to keep sucking for comfort so buying yourself some time that way could be useful. I believe they make pacifiers that don't have a soft nipple, so the baby can't learn to bite down on your nipple. I just use MAM orthodontic pacifiers, though, so I don't know what brand they are.

Good luck!

[rachelsmama]

Wow, that sounds tough! The LLL leader you see may have already mentioned this, but have you looked into taking your daughter to an osteopath or chiropractor? Occasionally that can help improve a shallow latch.

[_betsy_]

UGH! So been there!

What helped for us was the nipple shield, limiting length of feeding (I know, I know, EVERYONE says this is a bad idea, but I mean, limiting it to an hour, not 5 minutes!), and a pacifier. DD was none the worse for wear (or latch) with a pacifier, and it saved my sanity. I think I gave in around week 3 with both DDs.

If using a pacifier keeps 1) you sane 2) youhealthy 3) baby from CIO and 4) baby on the breast and off formula, then really, the pacifier might be the best thing for all of you.

My DH is a chiro, so my girls have been adjusted since birth. I can't say for sure it helped with DD1's tight latch, but it sure didn't hurt.

[dislocator3972]

I think I'll sit down with DH (now that I've had a little sleep and can talk rationally) and explain what I'm feeling/going through. And then we'll go out and find a paci that seems least likely to interfere with breastfeeding. Maybe she'll take it, maybe she won't but I'm not willing to let my parenting suffer if a $2 piece of plastic can make things better. I suppose it's like deciding to use the nipple shield, it may cause some rough spots later but I've got to get through today.

Betsy, I'm really glad to hear that you limited your feedings. I've been considering that and felt horrible about it, but after an hour or more, it's no longer nursing for hunger, and we can learn comfort in other ways.

rachelsmama, I got the name of a chiro that has a great reputation with babies, we'll be calling her on Monday. I really hope she can help my LO get that mouth open. Even DH said he didn't care what it cost!

I do think she's getting a full feeding, because she frequently (though not always) will suck and then let the milk fall out of her mouth and suck again. Plus, she's gaining weight well (though she's not quite up to her birth weight yet). She was born at 9lbs and at 48 hours she was at 8lbs 2oz. Since then she's been gaining 1/2 oz per day until this week when she started gaining almost 1 oz per day.

I'll have our LC check her tongue this week. That at least can be corrected fairly simply.

Thanks for your responses. Last night went well so maybe DH and I can talk about a pacifier today and not just fight about it.

How would another baby signal the end of a feeding? Would they just stop nursing or is there some signal that I'm not looking for? Maybe I'm just missing something.

And this may be a silly question, but it's ok to nurse after using Lasinoh right? If there's still a lot of goo on me I wipe/wash it off, but it just occurred to me that there could be something in there that upset her tummy too, although she acts the same whether I have been using Lasinoh or not.

[Michigan Mama]

nak

i've always read/heard that it's ok to leave the lansinoh on...

can't remember where i heard/read this idea, but you could try nursing only on one side for a few days while pumping on the other side so it can heal, then switch. i'm no expert, so i don't know what the drawbacks would be, but it made sense to me. one nipple will kill during those days, but the other one would have a chance to heal.

just a thought.

oh - and i would try the paci. my babe likes soothies better than mam or nuk, so you might need to try more than one...

[merebella]

I agree that you should try the paci. If it's between that and stopping breastfeeding, it's a no-brainer. We've done a paci pretty much since birth, and are a happy breastfeeding pair still at 7 months, even though we had some latch issue as well. Here's what helped:
--A great LC who was calming and full of good ideas.
--An osteopath who really helped with his jaw alignment (he was born cs and had some real cranial issues that made opening his mouth wide uncomfortable for him.)
--Dr. Jack Newman's nipple cream. Ask your LC about it and for a referral to a dr. that can give you a prescription for it. You might need to go to a compounding pharmacy to have it made up for you. Definitely helped. FWIW, my LC said that there's been talk about pesticide in products containing lanolin (pesticides sprayed on the sheep, lanolin comes from the sheep's wool, etc.)
--A pacifier! One tip: get one that doesn't have a "right side". We used the orthodontic shaped ones, and it's been difficult for ds to "rebinky" himself because there's a "right side" that needs to face up. Get one that is the same all around, so when dd is older and loses her binky during her nap or night, she can reach for it and rebinky herself without having to figure out how to get it in right.

Good luck, mama. Someday (hopefully soon!) you won't remember this pain, and you'll have a happy little nursing sweetheart. I had pain in the beginning, too, and it does get better. Just a half an hour ago, my ds was stroking my face as he nursed before his nap. It's worth it.

[LMG462]

So sorry you are going through this. I always thought this was a good paci, even though I could never get my youngest to take one. http://www.gumdroppacifier.com/

[viviensmama]

Oh mama I was where you are a month ago! It *will* get better. We have been giving our LO a pacifier, because if I don't she literally screams unless she is nursing, and if I don't limit the sessions she would nurse for hours up until a few weeks ago. Personally I think a pacifier is MUCH better than CIO. My nipples got so bad for a while I had huge scabs. One thing that helped me with the incredibly sore nipples was wearing a bra as little as necessary and using lots of nipple cream. I hope things get better for you.

[MountainMamaGC]

There is a "new" method for improving latch. Its called baby led latch and its supposed to provide a better latch than mother led latching. Babies can do this right from birth. I learned about this at a LLL meeting. They had a video and everything. Something about letting them lead, helps them latch on better.

Here is a video I found online.
http://www.5min.com/Video/Baby-led-M...atch-106183126

[crazychick]

I would totally try the pacifier. and if you think that she is not getting much why don't you try expressing some milk and spoon feed or finger feed after she has had her fill. to answer your question about when babies are done, some will suck fast with no draw to it and some will just pop off. watch the jaw by the ear. if you can see it moving then she should be eating. Hope this helps and lansinoh is 100% safe for baby to consume just some babies don't like the taste

[*Erin*]

poor mama
im sorry, it sounds like you are so miserable. don't feel bad for giving her a pacifier.

my ds spit up ALL THE TIME after nursing for the first couple of months, sometimes so much i'd wonder how the heck he was gaining as well as he was. apparently babies absorb the bulk of the nutrients they need from breastmilk in the first couple minutes of nursing.

also, is your babe tongue tied? (EDITED TO ADD-i see that you are aware that this may be an issue-i posted my reply without reading the thread! yes, def. have it clipped if she is-it makes a BIG difference), my dd was totally tongue tied, and it made for some very miserable early nursings. my nipples cracked and bled, i wanted to cry every time she latched on...we found our groove after the first 6 weeks or so, but nursing her was never 100% comfortable. in hindsight id've had her tongue clipped.

good luck mama.

don't beat yourself up. you are doing great. ((((big hugs to you))))

[dislocator3972]

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I know I said I didn't need it but it does feel good to hear that so many of you have been here and made it through without giving up. I have just heard for so long that breastfeeding only hurts for a few days and that by week three everything is smooth sailing. That is not going to be the case for us.

We researched pacifiers and picked one up tonight. Apparently she likes shopping because she was a HAPPY CAMPER the whole time we shopped. She's been pretty focused on nursing since we got home but so far we're ok and it's only been 35 minutes.

My LC will be here on Tues so I'll make a list of things to talk to her about. I really need some resolution here.

Thanks again, I really appreciate everything.

[Heba]

Glad you're still on track. I was going to mention considering nipple shields - I see someone has already done the same. Something you could perhaps discuss with your LC. There was a time when they were considered to do more harm than good, but now there is a realisation that if used appropriately they can (and have) save a breastfeeding relationship.

Baby-led attachment (similar to Biological Nurturing) - also mentioned by a pp - worth considering. More info/photos here: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/bla.html

Good luck, and I hope you work this out soon.

[mama k nj]

((hugs)) mama... so sorry this has been so difficult for you! Glad to hear things are improving. Honestly, I think 4 weeks was a turning point. And things were much much better by 6 weeks. Weeks 2-3 were probably the hardest for me.

For my 2 cents...
If your nips are that raw, it sounds like she is not latching properly. The first order of business would be to make sure she is latching correctly EVERY time so as not to cause more damage. A LC or LLL leader should be able to watch her and see if she's doing it right. A nipple shield is a last resort, but if it comes down to using that or not nursing anymore I'd go for that. Just know you have to wean them off it later and it should only be used under the supervision of a LC.

You also want to make sure your nips are healing up. Use lansinoh or something like that after every feeding. I would put it on a breast pad and then stick that on the nip because it hurt too much to put it right on the breast. Make sure you are changing pads frequently to keep them clean and prevent infection. Give them a chance to air dry too. They also sell "soothies" which are little gel packs you refrigerate and tuck in your bra.