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How would you react to this? - Page 5

post #81 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy View Post
Exactly! Knowing my friend the way I do, this is more than likely exactly how she explained "hard" to her DD.

And here in lies the problem. Said mom(D) has asked other moms to lie about an incident, so that her children do not find out about it. An incident that she is lying about to her children & she now wants us to cover for her by not discussing it whith our children & making sure they don't bring it up to hers.

Other mom (J) is livid over this. (D) cannot understand why (J) was upset about the sex talk, but she(D) also has no idea why others(J, myself & 2 mamas) would be put off to lie to our children to protect hers.

I cannot go into details about the incident.
Is the thing she's asked you to lie about in any way related to sexuality or sexual education? If not, I can't see it having any bearing on this situation. You can believe in selective lying about one topic, and not about another. And if it's not, trying to tie the two situations together seems to be something of a non sequitur.

Although, unless the situation was extreme, I wouldn't lie to my child at the request of another parent.
post #82 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschick View Post
Is the thing she's asked you to lie about in any way related to sexuality or sexual education? If not, I can't see it having any bearing on this situation. You can believe in selective lying about one topic, and not about another. And if it's not, trying to tie the two situations together seems to be something of a non sequitur.

Although, unless the situation was extreme, I wouldn't lie to my child at the request of another parent.
I think I agree, although I'm still pretty confused about what this other mom's supposed lie is. Anyway, yeah, I guess by that standard I'm a "selective liar" too: I tell my child all about the insects, plants, sex ed and planets she asks about, but I point-blank lie to her that Santa and the Tooth Fairy exist.
post #83 of 118
It wouldn't bother me.
post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
I think I agree, although I'm still pretty confused about what this other mom's supposed lie is. Anyway, yeah, I guess by that standard I'm a "selective liar" too: I tell my child all about the insects, plants, sex ed and planets she asks about, but I point-blank lie to her that Santa and the Tooth Fairy exist.
Right. I'm not going to lie to the kid if he's got honest questions about sex--I don't believe in lying about that topic. And I don't really care if he goes about spreading "the truth" to other kids.

I do "lie" about Santa Claus, but if another kid told him that Santa Claus didn't exist, I wouldn't flip my top. Santa Claus is both a story and a state of mind, eventually we all get to the point where we leave the original child-fantasy state of mind.
post #85 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
Say "no"

I can't imagine agreeing to that request.

And I'm guessing this is a santa thing :
Oh, I can imagine agreeing to a request like that, if it concerned something like . . . say the woman's husband had been caught fooling around with another woman, or visiting a prostitute. I could see lying to my kids about an incident like that to avoid the possibility of them telling the guy's kids about it (and to avoid giving them information I'd rather they didn't have about an adult they know.)

But I'm guessing it's probably not something that serious, or the other parents would be more understanding about the request to lie. If it was something Santa-related or similar, no way would I lie to my kids to help someone else lie to theirs.
post #86 of 118
I'm definately part of the "wouldn't bother me" crowd. As far as the other mother asking other parents to lie for her, would definately depend on what the situation was.

Ex: the parents are seperated and don't want the children to know about it yet. The mother doesn't want her children to hear about it from other kids. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

B/c I came from a household where sex and sexual anatomy were never, ever talked about, I really want to be informative and truthful with my children. And knowing that children do not filter the information that they share with others, I am fully prepared to be confronted by other parents. It will probably happen, but I have to do what feels right for my children.

And, I totally get a giggle when my DS says to my mother "Look Grammy, this is my scrotum! Do you want to see [DD]'s vulva?"
post #87 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post
But I'm guessing it's probably not something that serious, or the other parents would be more understanding about the request to lie. If it was something Santa-related or similar, no way would I lie to my kids to help someone else lie to theirs.
I've actually been thinking on it (trying to figure out what exactly the parent of one five-year-old wouldn't want that child hearing about, and would be worried that another five-year-old might be interested in conveying) and I've come up with topics of fantasy (Santa, etc), God and death.

Death being the weird one. I can't believe how many people I know, up to about their teenaged years, were told that their family pets "went away" somewhere else when the pet died. When our dog got sick/needed to be put to sleep last winter, we told the kid in simple terms that he'd gotten very sick, and sometimes people and animals who get very sick die. But, he'd also been aware for months that our dog was sick and in a lot of pain (our dog developed an autoimmune disease and unfortunately the meds we used to battle it destroyed his kidneys), so I felt it was a natural progression.
post #88 of 118
With regards to Santa and the Tooth Fairy....

I think there is a difference between pretending and lying.

We pretended about Santa when the kids were little. When DS1 point blank asked me if Santa was really real (at age 5), I asked him what he thought. He said he thought it was make-believe and didn't make sense (like, how does Santa get into houses that don't have fireplaces?) So then we talked about pretending, fantasy, and symbolism.

If I had insisted, at that point, that Santa was a real person who visits your house on Xmas Eve, I'd consider myself to be a liar.

When kids ask honest questions, they deserve honest answers. I did have one friend at the time who was very concerned that my kid would completely blow Xmas for her kids. It didn't happen. He never said a word to his friends or his little brother, who figured things out when he was about 7.

I suppose one could say that a kid who had been told bogus stories about storks, cabbage patches, and angels would eventually question and find out the truth as well. I think the difference is that making up stories about holiday characters and making up stories about conception/birth have very different intents. In the first case, it's to create magic for childhood. In the second case, it's to keep people ignorant or because of a skewed sense of propriety.
post #89 of 118
Oy. That's mild compared to what I hear from kids around our neighborhood. Not that I'm condoning or tivializing!!

I'm one of the few parents (around here, I mean) that stay outside with my kid after dinner. I don't hover, but I make a point to show that I want to be involved with him and his friends. I know them all pretty well.
Gosh, all the different views these kids have been given. Sometimes they ask me questions and I have to let them know that their parents will discuss it with them when they feel it's time.

I kind of welcome the interaction and the things they tell each other. I would never censor his interation by asking another parent to lie...even about Santa or the Easter Bunny.
...LoL. And I'd be silly to think that his curiosity or his own experience with something would wait until *I* was ready to talk about it with him.

I welcome his questioning and wanting to know why one family believes one thing and we believe another.

Graphic for a 5 yo? I don't think so, but I'm surmising in terms of my own kiddo...and the fact that we weren't privy to the converstation between this child an mother.
Geex, I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct my own kid cause he took one of our conversations out of context.

Guess, all that means I'm part of the "wouldn't have phased me a bit" crowd.

Now, we do practice the "that's not part of our business" or "that's not our concern" theory. I don't ask him to lie or keep secrets, it's just not "somthing we concern ourselves with"
This came up when my DS saw a friend buying cigaretts and the guy wasn't supposed to be smoking.
My son said, "OOOOHH! HE'S BUYING CIGARETTS!"
It's a fine line, but we're learning which business to mind and which business belongs to someone else. I don't ask him to keep it a secret, but it's not our concern to enforce that rule upon this other person.
If my son blurts it out then I guess this guy shoudln't have been buying something in a public place! LOL.

Anyway....
post #90 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschick View Post
*shrug* What I see here was that the mom probably gave her some decent information, which went into her five-year-old brain and came back out phrased in a slightly more five-year-old-ish way.

I could see a five-year-old questioning to the extent of this knowledge:

"Mommy, how are babies made?"

"The daddy puts his penis into the mommy . . . "

"Where?"

"Her vagina . . . "

"But penises are soft!" (A five-year-old may have seen her brother or father naked at some point)

"Penises get hard sometimes."

"Why would you do THAT?"

"Because it feels good."

Translation to five-year-old language: A daddy puts his hard penis into mommy because it feels good.
exactly! when i have kids i will not spare details, kids deserve to know the truth!
post #91 of 118
With kids all information is vulnerable to interpretation or disclosure...

We gave DS (5) the info wrt intercourse and bodies prior to school partly because I wanted to make sure the info came from us and not other children.

We don't believe in Santa or Tooth Fairy and I tell my children that some kids do and we should respect their beliefs. However, accidents happen and I won't feel badly if children have a difference of opinion about these things. It's kind of a part of life....
post #92 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy View Post
Your 5 year old daughter is told by your friends 5 year old daughter that babies are made when a hard penis goes into the vagina & it feel good (the child doesn't know this. mom just told her it feels good). Friends 5 year old just brings it up out of the blue (we were hiking through the woods) & has been told by mom not to discuss this with anyone.

This did not happen to my daughter because she was not within ear shot of this but it could have easily been my child. When my friend was confronted with this information, she became defensive & said, "I don't know why people feel the need to keep this from their kids. I just won't lie." What she actually means is she selectively lies.

Thoughts please.
Anyone who "confronted" me about how, what and when I teach my kids about any subject would be leaving with a considerable flea in her ear. I wouldn't be defensive at all, but I would make sure the "confronter" knew how offensive her behaviour was.
post #93 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlobe View Post
We don't believe in Santa or Tooth Fairy and I tell my children that some kids do and we should respect their beliefs. However, accidents happen and I won't feel badly if children have a difference of opinion about these things. It's kind of a part of life....
We do Santa and the Tooth Fairy - but I also wouldn't be upset if someone else's child told my kids the truth before I did. That's how ds1 found out, actually - a friend told him that he (the friend) saw his mom put money under his pillow. DS1 asked me if that was true. I said "yes", and we talked about it. If someone tells dd1 now, that's cool. Eventually, for one reason or another, she'll ask me - and then she'll know. If that reason is a friend whose parents don't do Santa, that's fine with me, yk?
post #94 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandib50 View Post
it wouldn't bother me.
i don't get the part about your friend "selectively" lying though - how is she selectively lying?
Maybe because it doesn't always feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.
post #95 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper44 View Post
My DD just turned three and she is very curious and matter of fact about body related issues. She wanted to know all about birth, and she tells people that a baby is very tiny in the mom's belly then grows bigger and bigger and one day gets so big that it crawls out a special hallway next to the pee-pee hole. Then it gets milk from the mom's boobies. This horrified my dad when she explained it to him.
Wait... your dad didn't know?! Your mom has some explaining to do.



I don't understand the selective lying bit so I can't comment on it. I would be fine with my daughter hearing that about sex from a friend. Hopefully I'll get to her first, but it may not happen cause I don't want to push this information.
post #96 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper44
My DD just turned three and she is very curious and matter of fact about body related issues. She wanted to know all about birth, and she tells people that a baby is very tiny in the mom's belly then grows bigger and bigger and one day gets so big that it crawls out a special hallway next to the pee-pee hole. Then it gets milk from the mom's boobies. This horrified my dad when she explained it to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post
Wait... your dad didn't know?! Your mom has some explaining to do.



You just made my day.
post #97 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisbirdwillfly View Post
I think the information was too graphic for the age. Most five year old girls who know that the penis is not always soft have been sexually abused. If a five year old shared with me that she knew that detail of sex, I'd be very concerned.

Which is exactly what I would say to my friend. I'd also tell her I find it difficult to believe that she didn't already know that five year olds tell everyone, everything and that some parents would find that language either inappropriate and/or disturbing.
I agree, way too graphic for 5.
post #98 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cutiekitties View Post
I agree, way too graphic for 5.
What makes it too graphic? Are you concerned that it will be emotionally scarring?
post #99 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy View Post

After spending some thinking about it what upset me goes deeper than the conversation between the 2 kids. It essentially boils down to my sentence of this mother's selective lying. And unfortunately I can't explain any more of that.
Gah! I keep coming back to this thread to get the scoop, and you're leaving me hanging!?!?

Spill woman, spill!
post #100 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cutiekitties View Post
I agree, way too graphic for 5.
Huh. Well before 5, my daughter wanted to know both the name of "the part that feels good" on herself, and (2) "how butterflies drink the nectar." I provided both names, "clitoris" and "proboscis." It wouldn't have occurred to me to think that "proboscis" was too graphic, and certainly I never thought to withhold from her the names of her own body parts.

Going back to the OP, the 5yo in question said that "babies are made when a hard penis goes into the vagina & it feel good." Assuming an adult told the 5yo this (and that she didn't figure it out, read it, or hear it from another child), what is too graphic is presumably (1) the fact that penises get hard, and/or (2) that sex can feel good. I'd far, far rather be discussing these facts with my child (as a child, when she might even listen to my value spin on them), than to hide these facts from her and have a predator or boyfriend introduce the concepts.
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