So if you don't do time-outs how do you discipline? - Page 2

[guestmama9972]

Originally Posted by itsmyturn

We use time-outs when our children are overstimulated and need to be removed from a situation.
The time-out is not meant as a punishment but as a tool to allow them to settle down and gain control of their actions.
We try to arrange quiet time before the melt down occurs, but sometimes we miss the cue and alone time becomes required.

Yes. This works for us, and I approach it from the angle of, "You seem very upset about having to pick up the stuffed animals. Why don't you go look at some books for a while. You can come out of your room when you feel better and we'll talk about cleaning up then."

It is not punitive that way, and the kids get a chance to calm down and reorganize themselves.

I do this for myself, too. If I am getting frazzled I tell my girls that I need a five minute break to calm down.

It works well for us. Sometimes I go with them to their room or the couch and join them for the calm down time. We read or cuddle and we are all better for it!

[JL83]

Gentle discipline doesn't mean NO discipline. It also doesn't mean not having limits or standards of acceptable behavior.

What it's about is dealing with the child on a level that's respectful and works towards the big picture. It's about following the true meaning of discipline which is "to teach".

We don't do time-outs, but we don't put up with hitting, or screaming or anything else that bothers us. The limit in our house is that when we are in the common space we need to behave in a way that doesn't bother other people. If DD wants to do things we don't like, then she needs to do that in the privacy of her room. And if we need to (which is often right now, but decreasing) we help her. If she wants to yell and throw her stuffies around, her room is the place for that, not the living room. But, it's always her choice. She gets to chose what she does and by extension where she does it.

We take our role seriously to help her and guide her through learning about her emotions and how to handle them.

[Tdunahoo]

I do time-outs differently than traditional time-outs. I sit out with him and talk with him about why he is in a time-out. For example, the other day we were at the park and he was starting to get really aggressive with another little boy I intervened, looked him in the eye and asked him to stop or he would go to a "time-out" he kept up the behavior so I said "okay it looks like you're too excited to handle playing right now, we're going to sit out together until you can calm down" and then I sat with him on a bench and told him when he hits he can hurt someone. So far it seems to be working well, I would never send him to a corner or anything but sometimes he needs more than being re-directed and he needs to be taken out of a situation.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by Tdunahoo

I do time-outs differently than traditional time-outs. I sit out with him and talk with him about why he is in a time-out. For example, the other day we were at the park and he was starting to get really aggressive with another little boy I intervened, looked him in the eye and asked him to stop or he would go to a "time-out" he kept up the behavior so I said "okay it looks like you're too excited to handle playing right now, we're going to sit out together until you can calm down" and then I sat with him on a bench and told him when he hits he can hurt someone. So far it seems to be working well, I would never send him to a corner or anything but sometimes he needs more than being re-directed and he needs to be taken out of a situation.

I would call that a time-in rather than a time-out, because you stay with him. Exclusion is a necessary ingredient to time-outs as I understand them.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by mamazee

I would call that a time-in rather than a time-out, because you stay with him. Exclusion is a necessary ingredient to time-outs as I understand them.

Or sometimes exclusion is a necessary ingredient to getting the kid to calm down...

When our DD (almost 3) is so out of control that she hits or kicks then no amount of "time-ins" are going to work. I'm not about to sit with her on my lap while she hits me. And I don't care "why" she's hitting me. She's basically 3 and WAY old enough not to hit anymore. So, then I will put her somewhere safe where she can work through the violent part of her emotions until she's ready to talk to us.

So sometimes exclusion is part of a time-in...

AP is about meeting your kids needs. And kids need to learn how to behave in a socially acceptable way. How you accomplish that is the tricky part. And it's perfectly possible to get there without using punishments.

[foreverinbluejeans]

A time-out is a form of punishment. Punishments do not teach good behavior. At best they stop bad behavior. Punishments are part of athoritarian parenting.

Authoritative parents believe in developing a close and nurturing relationship with their children while also upholding and maintaining a reasonably high level of expectations and rules or guidelines. While the most difficult to accomplish, an authoritative parenting style is the healthiest and most well-balanced style in which to raise children.

Without Spanking or Spoiling by Elizabeth Crary is a great book. You can find out more about her by going to google.

La Leche League can be a good place to learn about mothering. If group meetings aren't for you LLL state conferences are cheap and can be an exciting chance to meet people like the Sears and other parenting "experts".

[JL83]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans

A time-out is a form of punishment. Punishments do not teach good behavior. At best they stop bad behavior. Punishments are part of athoritarian parenting.

I think terminology is important here. It entirely depends on how a time-out is done as to whether or not it's a punishment.

If it's the standard no interaction deal with the kid on a chair or their bed for a specified amount of time, then I agree with you.

But if it's more in the style of taking a break to calm down then I disagree.

[mamazee]

Hmm well as far as terminology goes, then, my understanding is that by definition "time out" = excluded and "time in" = not excluded. That the "in" and "out" means with people or without people being around.

Now by all means time outs can be done for different reasons. To calm down, to separate from a problem, or specifically to punish. As can time ins I suppose. Though part of the issue is how the child sees it, not just how the parent intends it. Anyway, it is a complicated issue and both time ins and time outs can have many different forms, many of them IMO quite within the realm of gentle discipline. I haven't personally used a time out, and my dd did tantrum terribly and violently, though not much after about 4. It just wasn't the right way to deal with my dd.

[Adasmommy]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

So what do we do instead. I know we are supposed to explain and really talk to her about something she may do that she shouldn't have but say she does it again or something? She is only 3 1/2 months old right now but this is obviously something we will be dealing with in the future...As if it weren't obvious as well this is our first LO so it's all new territory to DH and I...

Do you eventually have to do a time out if the LO just isn't getting the message or am I missing something here?

Why do you assume that a time-out would work? If a time-out would cure my dd of (theoretically) hitting, I say it would be worth it! But I doubt it would work, and I don't use them.

It seems to me that discipline is needed if a child doesn't know better, or can't control herself.

For the former, what's needed is teaching, helping, modeling.

For the latter, a lot of patience! Repeating the teaching, helping and modeling. Reminding.

My dd has gone through some awfully tantrumy stages. If it didn't rain when she wanted it to, we were in trouble! Nothing I did calmed her down except leaving her alone. So I'd leave her alone and welcome her back when she was sane again. If we were out of the house, we would leave immediately. That worked for us. Tantrums weren't something we could reason about. But by leaving them alone, we never encouraged them either!

[nina_yyc]

Originally Posted by Adasmommy

Why do you assume that a time-out would work? If a time-out would cure my dd of (theoretically) hitting, I say it would be worth it! But I doubt it would work, and I don't use them.

Exactly. Little kids have trouble processing the negative - the whole "don't think of a pink elephant" thing. You say "don't touch!" and they hear "touch!" So the best way to eliminate a behavior is to encourage the positive opposite of that behavior. So, instead of "don't throw food," it's "food goes in your mouth."

[gentlestrengths]

I wanted to add that I use a modified time-out approach also, and I don't feel like it is a punishment, or use it in a punishing way.

If someone is out of control (myself included!), or screaming, or having a tantrum (because kids do all of the above!!) - I tell them they have to sit in a kitchen chair for 10 minutes. They aren't ignored during this time. I talk to them. They talk to me. They talk to their siblings. We talk about whatever they want to talk about or we don't talk at all. It just depends. But they have to sit their and regain some self-control. It always works for me. There has never been a time that I made a child sit in the chair when s/he didn't regain some or all composure and calm themselves back down. Discipline, to me, is much about self-control. These are children we are talking about and much of the time they need tons of help in learning self-control. Sure - I am MAKING them sit in the chair - but I have never held them down to stay there! None of my kids cry when I tell them to sit in the kitchen chair. And I don't do it that often. But when I hear growling, and see toys flying and kids are fighting........it works really well to help everyone calm down.

It works for us, and in my house, it is definitely not considered punishment.

[Ldavis24]

I haven't made any assumptions about time outs working. Although according to half of the parents I know, more than half actually it works eventually...I know it is the most common form of dealing with a LO when that LO is doing something inappropriate.

Having never navigated the muddy waters of handling a 2yo who is flipping out I was curious as to how parents here handled it as opposed to the more mainstream parents out there. Time outs certainly aren't in line with how DH and I are trying to parent but like I said it is not something I had given much thought since my LO is only 4mo.

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by gentlestrengths

I wanted to add that I use a modified time-out approach also, and I don't feel like it is a punishment, or use it in a punishing way.

If someone is out of control (myself included!), or screaming, or having a tantrum (because kids do all of the above!!) - I tell them they have to sit in a kitchen chair for 10 minutes. They aren't ignored during this time. I talk to them. They talk to me. They talk to their siblings. We talk about whatever they want to talk about or we don't talk at all. It just depends. But they have to sit their and regain some self-control. It always works for me. There has never been a time that I made a child sit in the chair when s/he didn't regain some or all composure and calm themselves back down. Discipline, to me, is much about self-control. These are children we are talking about and much of the time they need tons of help in learning self-control. Sure - I am MAKING them sit in the chair - but I have never held them down to stay there! None of my kids cry when I tell them to sit in the kitchen chair. And I don't do it that often. But when I hear growling, and see toys flying and kids are fighting........it works really well to help everyone calm down.

It works for us, and in my house, it is definitely not considered punishment.

That would never work for my dd. Her fit would increase. She would throw the chair and continue on!

I wish I could find something that would help her regain control of herself.

[mamazee]

It wouldn't work with my dd either.

Also, I'm not sure I understand the comment, "It isn't considered punishment." Punishment is a negative consequence enforced in an effort to change behavior. I don't see how making someone sit in a chair when they don't want to for 10 minutes to change their behavior could be anything else, regardless of whether you're holding them down or not. Do you mean you personally don't consider it punishment, or that your kids don't consider it punishment? Also, have they always just sat down when you told them to? Have you ever had to hold them down, like back when you started doing it? How did you get this started in the first place? My dd would absolutely not just sit down in a chair for 10 minutes because I told her to, especially not during a fit. I'd have to either hold her down or threaten something that I'd do if she got up. I have a hard time seeing how this could be enforced without the threat of further punishment if the child got up. What would you do if the child just got up? Or refused to sit in the first place?

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by mamazee

It wouldn't work with my dd either.

Also, I'm not sure I understand the comment, "It isn't considered punishment." Punishment is a negative consequence enforced in an effort to change behavior. I don't see how making someone sit in a chair when they don't want to for 10 minutes to change their behavior could be anything else, regardless of whether you're holding them down or not. Do you mean you personally don't consider it punishment, or that your kids don't consider it punishment? Also, have they always just sat down when you told them to? Have you ever had to hold them down, like back when you started doing it? How did you get this started in the first place? My dd would absolutely not just sit down in a chair for 10 minutes because I told her to, especially not during a fit. I'd have to either hold her down or threaten something that I'd do if she got up. I have a hard time seeing how this could be enforced without the threat of further punishment if the child got up. What would you do if the child just got up? Or refused to sit in the first place?

What do you do with your dd when she is having a fit?

[mamazee]

Well she's 7, so tantrums aren't an issue anymore, but back in the day I didn't really do anything. I just let her go through it, and I was there for her when she was done. I made sure she didn't get hurt or hurt anything, and that might involve moving her, but I would stay with her, as close or far as seemed to work for her at the time. I don't think a tantrum is a discipline problem. It's just something kids do when they're frustrated, and they outgrow them.

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by mamazee

Well she's 7, so tantrums aren't an issue anymore, but back in the day I didn't really do anything. I just let her go through it, and I was there for her when she was done. I made sure she didn't get hurt or hurt anything, and that might involve moving her, but I would stay with her, as close or far as seemed to work for her at the time. I don't think a tantrum is a discipline problem. It's just something kids do when they're frustrated, and they outgrow them.

I agree in general, but hurting other people and destroying the house are not acceptable for me even if it is part of the tantrum.

I just hope it will end soon. She went through the same demonic-type behavior a couple of years ago, and it too did come to an end eventually!

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by lnitti

I agree in general, but hurting other people and destroying the house are not acceptable for me even if it is part of the tantrum.

I just hope it will end soon. She went through the same demonic-type behavior a couple of years ago, and it too did come to an end eventually!

I don't think it's acceptable either. As I said,

I made sure she didn't get hurt or hurt anything, and that might involve moving her