Need some serious help for a friend and her dog!

[gumby74]

A friend of mine adopted a dog from our local shelter that I am a frequent volunteer. This is a yello lab that we suspect had been hit in the head at some point as well as was deaf and probably about 8 years old. They wanted to give him another chance and happen to be people who are very tolerant of animals and their different behaviors. I mention this only because you need to know that they would be willing to do whatever is necessary to make this work. That being said....this dog has continued to pee in the house when they are gone as well as right in front of them. They confine him to one spot with only linoleum while they are gone, but when they are home he will also pee on the carpet and couch in front of them. He gets enough excercise and he has been vet checked. Truly, it sounds like a behavior issue. They are at the point where they might have to return him because they don't think they can deal with it anymore. I know they are also going to contact a behavior specialist, but I thought I would post on here as well because you guys are so knowledgeable as well. Any thoughts??

[greenmagick]

How long have they had him? Do they use a crate at all? What do they do when he does go right in front of them?

[ewagaman]

Crate, crate and more crate.

Crate the dog while gone. When returning, immediately take the dog outside and give the command "go potty" (or the like). If he goes potty, tons of praise "good, boy, potty!" and he gets to stay out of the crate when you bring him back inside. If he doesn't, he goes back in the crate for 15 mins. Repeat process. He only is out of the crate if he has pottied recently. Otherwise, into the crate he goes.

Also, no blankets in the crate during this potty training time. And, the crate should only be big enough for him to stand up and turn around. Not a luxury suite.

There's more to it, but those are the basics.

[Ola_]

I agree to crate. Also, I would get a belly band when he is out of the crate.

How long have they had him? How frequently does he get potty breaks?

[Girl In The Fire]

What has the vet checked for? There are many conditions like UTI, tumors, kidney disease, etc. that can cause the dog to loose bladder control.

[gumby74]

Thank you so much for the responses!!!!! I suggested the crate as well, but am glad to see others suggest it. I will share the responses with her. When I mentioned the crating, she said that he goes "crazy" when he is in there. I think she could be right about that because he definitely appears to have neurological issues. Hard to explain, but if you saw him you would know what I meant. I believe they got him back in April of this year. I gave her the name of a behavior specialist around here that we used. I'm confident she will follow through this. In the meantime, she also wants to adopt another little older terrier dog that has been at the shelter for awhile. I'm a little worried she is trying to do too much at once, but her intentions are well meaning. More than anything I worry that taking on another dog while trying to housetrain the other dog will end up being too much.

Oh and to answer the other question: not sure about what he has been vet checked for, but I will mention that as well!

[lifeguard]

Crate training would NOT work with our pup & we were consistent with it for months. I think for some dogs who've had a trauma related to it it can be more damaging.

[Oubliette8]

Could this be separation anxiety and submissive peeing? Have you seen the behavior? A behaviorist would be able to adress it if it is. I had a dog once who did both- the key to submissive peeing is to completely ignore the behavior. Scolding makes it worse. If they can identify the triggers, they can try modifying the situation somewhat- with my dog, it was far more likely when greeting someone, so we greeted people outside first where it didn't really matter. We also instructed our guests to ignore him mostly, and if they greeted him, to do it in a certain, non-threatening way (eyes averted, offer a hand to sniff etc) Excitement also made it worse- excessive praise, over stimulation, someone new cooing over how beautiful he was, all triggered the submissive peeing reaction. So we avoided those things. He was young and eventually he started to grow out of it. Your dog is significantly older, he may never outgrow it, but it might be controllable or behavior modification could help him learn to have a calmer reaction.

For separation anxiety, until she can get a trainer to show her how to work with it (separation anxiety can be very hard to treat- using a behaviorist would be best here) I would simply put the dog somewhere that he cant get into trouble- someplace where peeing isn't hard to clean up, and that he cant otherwise destroy. From your description of his crated behavior, there may be something to this.

The other possibility is that he's simply incontinent. In that case there might not be any obvious signs that something is wrong with him (no UTI, urinary pain etc) he just cant hold it. His behavior would be the big clue for the vet in that case- what does he doing when the accidents happen? How does he react etc. I'm not an expert in incontinence, but they should ask the vet.

My final thought is, I'm assuming he's neutered because he came from a shelter, but WHEN was he neutered? Is it marking behavior? Intact males are more likely to develop this behavior, if he's been intact for 8 years, its probably pretty deeply ingrained. Sometimes neutering alone will resolve the issue over a few months as the hormones leave his body, but in an older dog such as this, additional training may be necessary, and he may never stop. Many owners of intact older males resort to something called a Belly Band to keep their dogs from marking the whole house (sort of like a diaper for a male dog)

There are so many possibilities, i think a behaviorists input would be invaluable here. Let us know how it works out.

[gumby74]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

Could this be separation anxiety and submissive peeing? Have you seen the behavior? A behaviorist would be able to adress it if it is. I had a dog once who did both- the key to submissive peeing is to completely ignore the behavior. Scolding makes it worse. If they can identify the triggers, they can try modifying the situation somewhat- with my dog, it was far more likely when greeting someone, so we greeted people outside first where it didn't really matter. We also instructed our guests to ignore him mostly, and if they greeted him, to do it in a certain, non-threatening way (eyes averted, offer a hand to sniff etc) Excitement also made it worse- excessive praise, over stimulation, someone new cooing over how beautiful he was, all triggered the submissive peeing reaction. So we avoided those things. He was young and eventually he started to grow out of it. Your dog is significantly older, he may never outgrow it, but it might be controllable or behavior modification could help him learn to have a calmer reaction.

For separation anxiety, until she can get a trainer to show her how to work with it (separation anxiety can be very hard to treat- using a behaviorist would be best here) I would simply put the dog somewhere that he cant get into trouble- someplace where peeing isn't hard to clean up, and that he cant otherwise destroy. From your description of his crated behavior, there may be something to this.

The other possibility is that he's simply incontinent. In that case there might not be any obvious signs that something is wrong with him (no UTI, urinary pain etc) he just cant hold it. His behavior would be the big clue for the vet in that case- what does he doing when the accidents happen? How does he react etc. I'm not an expert in incontinence, but they should ask the vet.

My final thought is, I'm assuming he's neutered because he came from a shelter, but WHEN was he neutered? Is it marking behavior? Intact males are more likely to develop this behavior, if he's been intact for 8 years, its probably pretty deeply ingrained. Sometimes neutering alone will resolve the issue over a few months as the hormones leave his body, but in an older dog such as this, additional training may be necessary, and he may never stop. Many owners of intact older males resort to something called a Belly Band to keep their dogs from marking the whole house (sort of like a diaper for a male dog)

There are so many possibilities, i think a behaviorists input would be invaluable here. Let us know how it works out.

Thank you! You made a lot of good points. I'm pretty sure he was never neutered till he came to the shelter and now I wonder if that is what's going on? I'm off to investigate further!