Feeling guilty about my dog

[russsk]

Dh and I adopted a dog almost four years ago, and its been a struggle ever since. He's such a sweet dog, and we really love him, but I'm feeling really guilty lately because I feel like we can't keep him much longer.

Long story short: Dog has lots of baggage, and should not have been adopted out. Trainers, vets and behaviorists have all expressed surprised that he wasn't euthanized. He was abused before we adopted him when he was 1.5 years. He has come so far in the last few years, but I'm getting really burned out at how I have to manage our household.

We have another dog (dog1) who's a little older. I got him as a pup almost six years ago. He's exactly what you'd want in a dog - friendly, outgoing, smart, easy to train, energetic and happy. We adopted a second dog because we loved our first so much, we figured another one would be even better. First dog seems to have changed over the years, and I don't know if its just because he's aging or if it's because of the impact dog2 has had on our lives.

Dog2 barks whenever he hears any kind of noise outside (we live in the city). This means he wakes DS up constantly. I have to make sure to put him in the finished basement, but if anyone knocks, or if he hears the mailman, etc., forget about it. He freaks out and claws at the door and wakes DS (2 floors up). The dogs go out 3-4 times a day, for walks and to the dog park. I really enjoy taking dog1 out, but dog2 causes so much stress. He's really unpredictable - I never know if he's just going to be cool around other dogs, or if he will totally freak out. Twice now he's chewed his leash in half to get away, and twice he's slipped his collar. He's actually very friendly with other dogs, but try telling that to petrified owners when this dog escapes and goes barrel-assing toward them. It's obviously only happened a small percentage of the time, but the fear that it could happen again is always with me. Therefore, I only walk the dogs one at a time. I'm sure he picks up on my stress, too.

We can't have anyone over without putting him outside, because he is very distrustful of people and has nipped two people who were leaving the room. If we put him out and he knows someone is in the house, he freaks out. He has ripped the weatherstripping off our back door numerous times.

I have to watch like a hawk when dog2 and ds are in the same room. He's actually been really good with ds, but if ds is near the window when someone walks by, the dog would knock him over. (It hasn't happened, but it worries me. When ds was little he and I were lying on the bed; dog2 was on the floor, but heard a noise and jumped up on the bed to look out the window. I had to throw myself over ds.) This often means that the dogs are in the basement, and I feel like they aren't really a part of our family like they should be.

I've been able to deal with these things (and other issues) but it's really worn me out. We are discussing getting pg again early next year, and I would so love to have another baby but I'm so worried. I really wanted a homebirth with DS, but couldn't because of dog2. Now the thought of missing out on a homebirth again because of the dog makes me so sad. Not to mention, how much more difficult it would be to protect ds while caring for a newborn.

I also can't have babysitters. Dog2 is ok with my mom, so when she is in town she has watched ds (this has happened twice in a year and a half). I had a mother's helper who was AWESOME, but I had to keep the dog with me in the office while she played with DS. The one time she watched ds alone, the dog was in the basement and was freaking the whole time. DH and I celebrated our anniversary this year by going out to dinner at a wonderful restaurant we've been wanting to try for a while. We brought ds because 1) we can't have a sitter at the house and 2) he's usually pretty happy at restaurants. Well, it was a nightmare, and we had to leave. It was awful. I just don't know how I can do this all over again with another baby and no help. Not to mention trying to get two kids to nap while the dog wakes them.

The stress is crushing me, and is making me reconsider our plans to have two kids. Of course, its crazy to change your family plans because of a dog, I know that. So a big part of me wants to give him up. But that also makes me feel awful. My mother has offered to take him (she loves him) when she finally sells her house and moves, but I've learned over the past three decades that, though she means well, she makes lots of promises she can't keep. Other than her, though, I don't see where else he could go. He has so many "issues" that I don't think anyone who fully understands them would take them on.

I know this is long and rambling, and doesn't really paint a clear picture of what life with this dog is like, but this has been weighing heavily on me and I needed to get it out. I don't know what I'm looking for - advice? hugs? btdt? - but I feel like we need to make some kind of decision soon. He really is a special dog who tries so hard to please, but he makes things so hard.

[ColoradoHELLP]

You sound really stressed out. Me too. We are going through a similar deal here. Just wanted you to know that I read your post, and although I only have a couple of paltry suggestions, I sympathize.

My vote would be:

A) Place the dog
OR
B) Keep the dog, add citronella collar + crate

JMHO....

[lifeguard]

We had a lot of success with a bark collar with our older dog. It worked immediately (ok - actually the citronella one made her more upset but the shock one work IMMEDIATELY). The great thing about it was that without the barking she overall settled down. The barking was getting her more upset.

Can you use baby gates to partition the dog off? We have one between the kitchen & diningroom/livingroom. Sometimes we put the dogs in the kitchen & then they can still see & hear us but it gives everyone a little bit more room.

Why walk the dog at a dog park? I personally find purposely bringing my dogs where there are other dogs (often off leash when mine are not) more stressful then is necessary. I have a route I take that doesn't involve a lot of distraction (in the way of other dogs) so that we can just walk & enjoy it. It's not that my dogs are not socialized but when we go for our walk it's specifically for the walk & I prefer to leave the socializing to times when I have more time & the dogs can (preferrably) be off leash.

For times when I know things will be especially anxiety ridden (strangers coming to the house, vet appt., grooming, etc.) I give our older dog rescue remedy. This has even gotten her through full days of travelling (including flights) which I think is incredible for a dog that generally freaks out at being in a kennel.

[russsk]

Thanks so much for the suggestions.

We do have baby gates - he jumps over them.

He has a crate, which he likes to hang out in, but as soon as you close the door he FREAKS OUT. We tried using the crate when people came over, but he really hurt himself the first time.

Re: Shock/citronella collars. Over the last four years we've consulted two behaviorists and I don't know how many trainers. The trainers all had different suggestions for stopping him from pulling, barking, etc. But the behaviorists told me that the corrections we were using were just making the situation worse. For instance, we used a head halter at one point to curb pulling. So, he would see a dog, pull, and the halter would tighten on his face in an uncomfortable way. He began linking that sensation to other dogs, not to the pulling, which would cause him to freak out whenever he saw another dog, which would put more pressure on his face, causing him to freak out even more the next time, and so on. He's not so much a "nuisance barker" - my mom has one of those - as he is just constantly on guard and barks at people outside to intimidate them. I would be very worried that a shock/citronella collar would make him even more fearful of people.

I should have been more clear about the dog park - he freaks out when he sees other dogs on a walk, but not at the dog park. He's plays really well with other dogs and doesn't have the freak outs there that he does on walks. If he hears any loud sound, though - which is often, its near the highway - he loses it and runs to get away. The problem is, we see dogs on every walk. We live in the city, and there are so many dogs. I've tried walking at different times, different routes, and we almost always see at least one dog. DH takes them out at 5 am, which is dog2's only stress-free walk.

To top it off, the dog has now - twice - pulled all the dirty diapers out of the diaper pail and ripped them apart. This is totally new.

I've tried rescue remedy but didn't notice a difference. It can't hurt to try again, though. Thanks for reminding me.

[Nicole915]

Have you talked to your vet about the behaviors? I'm usually very anti-medication, but there are some animals (just like there are some people) who have a great deal of anxiety. This can sometimes be a physiological deficit that needs to be addressed with medication. We're a nation that is becoming more tolerant to the idea that sometimes humans just need medicine to treat mental disorders, but there is still a lot of reluctance to seeking that same care for our pets.

Just an idea. I'm sorry you're so stressed, it sounds like you're doing so many things right. Wishing you the very best.

[heartmama]

I don't think it is normal to be planning your family size and birth location around the needs of a dog. When it gets to that point you need to do whatever it takes to regain some normalcy in your lives. There is no way I could possibly live with that kind of stress. I am so, so sorry. I felt just awful reading your post.

Do not take this as criticism--but it sounds like this dog is being catered to at every turn. He hates the crate, hates the collar, hates corrections, can't be walked with the other dog, won't be left home with a sitter etc. etc. so he is just being given everything however he wants it. Is he going to kill himself inside the crate? Probably not. Is he going to kill himself with a correction collar? Probably not. Will he die if you lock him in the crate so you can have a sitter and go out to dinner? Or crate him so you can *give birth*? Now, maybe this dog is beyond helping, and these things will in fact just make him worse no matter how long you give it a try. I sense that is your fear and you may be right. But, he seems to have convinced the humans not to try, and that is a problem, that you have so much fear over this dog, kwim?

However the other question is whether you should keep trying. I am not the one who can say--but whatever you need to do, in my opinion, is probably justified at this point, because I have to believe a dog who could get a family to this state must truly be an incredible behavior challenge, and probably more than *I* could handle. Only you can decide what to do here, but whatever it is, you won't get any criticism from me.

I just want to point out that yes, something needs to change. If you are asking that--then yes, absolutely, this is not normal, and you should not be held hostage in your home, or afraid to have a second child, because of the dog. Either he CAN be crated and controlled better (and again, only you can answer that) and it is worth giving it one more try, or else you have reason to be sure he is beyond help, and already know that the dog needs another home.

Have you tried medication for him? That is one thing I might have missed in your post...

[russsk]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I don't think it is normal to be planning your family size and birth location around the needs of a dog. When it gets to that point you need to do whatever it takes to regain some normalcy in your lives. There is no way I could possibly live with that kind of stress. I am so, so sorry. I felt just awful reading your post.

Do not take this as criticism--but it sounds like this dog is being catered to at every turn. He hates the crate, hates the collar, hates corrections, can't be walked with the other dog, won't be left home with a sitter etc. etc. so he is just being given everything however he wants it. Is he going to kill himself inside the crate? Probably not. Is he going to kill himself with a correction collar? Probably not. Will he die if you lock him in the crate so you can have a sitter and go out to dinner? Or crate him so you can *give birth*? Now, maybe this dog is beyond helping, and these things will in fact just make him worse no matter how long you give it a try. I sense that is your fear and you may be right. But, he seems to have convinced the humans not to try, and that is a problem, that you have so much fear over this dog, kwim?

However the other question is whether you should keep trying. I am not the one who can say--but whatever you need to do, in my opinion, is probably justified at this point, because I have to believe a dog who could get a family to this state must truly be an incredible behavior challenge, and probably more than *I* could handle. Only you can decide what to do here, but whatever it is, you won't get any criticism from me.

I just want to point out that yes, something needs to change. If you are asking that--then yes, absolutely, this is not normal, and you should not be held hostage in your home, or afraid to have a second child, because of the dog. Either he CAN be crated and controlled better (and again, only you can answer that) and it is worth giving it one more try, or else you have reason to be sure he is beyond help, and already know that the dog needs another home.

Have you tried medication for him? That is one thing I might have missed in your post...

I know, it's awful, isn't it?

I don't feel like we're catering to him, but I do feel like we definitely have to make a lot of accommodations. It's not so much for his happiness, though, as for my sanity. If it were as easy as putting him in the crate and telling him to deal while we have guests, that would be one thing. But I can't stand listening to it! He makes the most g-d-awful sounds! And our house is pretty small, so you can't ignore it. And he just doesn't stop.

Whether more trying will help, I don't know. I'm not afraid of trying anything new with him, I just feel a little wary. I've tried so many things with him (some expensive) hoping that we could help him and just live a normal life with a normal dog, only to find that we'd made the problem worse. That just kills me.

As for medication, we do use valium during high-stress times, like the Fourth of July. I've considered the possibility of anti-anxiety/anti-depressants, but DH is really against that. He can't really verbalize why, but he feels very strongly about it. My vet (who I love) doesn't work much with these drugs, though, so I would have to find someone else, which is why I guess we've just not done it. I'd need to find a new vet, and to do that I'd have to get dh on board. I don't know how to do that, because I don't know what his problem is.

I think I'm at a point where, when I picture our family in the future, the dog isn't in it. That makes me feel horrible. I can't even go into all the ways this makes me sick to my stomach right now, it's just too emotional.

Thanks so much for all your suggestions. And I definitely do not take any offence to criticism - I know that this is a completely ridiculous situation that I should not have let go on like this. I just don't know the best way to fix it. This dog breaks my heart.

[Noelle C.]

So often, too often, I've heard about dogs adopted out who shouldn't have been. Many shelter workers mean the best by saying EVERY dog deserves a chance, and so take on getting the difficult ones adopted out first (and in fact there are groups of people out there whose mission it is to try to get these dogs into homes first), but then you get problems like this. A dog adopted who shouldn't have been. A calm dog put down in his place. The last person I met (in person) who had a bad experience didn't find out until a few days after she got home that the dog the got was aggressive and had even bit her son. A behaviorist told her she needed to take the dog back to the shelter and talk to them, that there was clearly more to this dog's history that she was told. When she did that, she found out the dog was on drugs in the shelter to keep him calm, and that she was the THIRD person to adopt the dog and bring him back. Is it any surprise that she left the dog too and got a new one from a breeder? Unfortunately her case and yours are not isolated incidents.

Since a crate isn't working, ad he's aggressive/fearful of everything, and you've clearly tried much, I'm actually going to suggest rehoming this person with a handler highly experienced with difficult dogs. It would be better for you and for the dog. I guarantee you the dog picks up on how you feel around him, the stress and such. Sometimes a certain dog and a certain family simply are not compatible, and in the right home, that dog is a dream. I think this is one of those times where you should consider rehoming.

[russsk]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

So often, too often, I've heard about dogs adopted out who shouldn't have been. Many shelter workers mean the best by saying EVERY dog deserves a chance, and so take on getting the difficult ones adopted out first (and in fact there are groups of people out there whose mission it is to try to get these dogs into homes first), but then you get problems like this. A dog adopted who shouldn't have been. A calm dog put down in his place. The last person I met (in person) who had a bad experience didn't find out until a few days after she got home that the dog the got was aggressive and had even bit her son. A behaviorist told her she needed to take the dog back to the shelter and talk to them, that there was clearly more to this dog's history that she was told. When she did that, she found out the dog was on drugs in the shelter to keep him calm, and that she was the THIRD person to adopt the dog and bring him back. Is it any surprise that she left the dog too and got a new one from a breeder? Unfortunately her case and yours are not isolated incidents.

Since a crate isn't working, ad he's aggressive/fearful of everything, and you've clearly tried much, I'm actually going to suggest rehoming this person with a handler highly experienced with difficult dogs. It would be better for you and for the dog. I guarantee you the dog picks up on how you feel around him, the stress and such. Sometimes a certain dog and a certain family simply are not compatible, and in the right home, that dog is a dream. I think this is one of those times where you should consider rehoming.

You're absolutely right - he shouldn't have been adopted out. We found out by coincidence, long after we had adopted him, that the shelter had tried to place him with a breed rescue, which rejected him because they didn't think they could rehabilitate him. By the time we realized the extent of his problems, we didn't feel like we could return him to the shelter because he would likely be euthanized. We were not thinking rationally. I've had dogs my whole life, but none like him and I didn't understand what we were getting into.

I know I'm making him sound awful, but he has made some amazing strides in the four years we've had him. Amazing. I think the last year and a half has been really hard on me because I had my first child, DH got a job that has him commuting 4 hours a day and I got overwhelmed. Up until recently, I was also working FT from home. I just haven't had the time to give him what he needs, and that's not fair to him. I know he's picking up on my stress.

I know rehoming is probably best for him, but I am so worried that I won't find the right person. What if they can't handle him either? What if they hurt him or abandon him? He's only 5 years old - what if he spends the next 10 years bouncing from home to home? I know I'm being completely ridiculous but I end up sobbing every time I think of rehoming him.

[Noelle C.]

Do you think that this anxious dog is truly happy? Or do you think he'll continue to basically panic every time he meets someone new? If you think he'll continue this, it may very well be kinder to have a vet come out and put him down so he doesn't have to continue to be unhappy. I've seen at-home euths before, and they are very peaceful. The animals are given a shot to help them relax first. It's hard to watch still, but a lot easier on the animal. I know a lot of people would never put down a physically healthy animal, but I'm thinking in terms of quality of life.

If you think he's happy and would continue to be happy, just neurotic, then your best bet would be to try to find a trainer who is looking for a dog. If he's made some strides, but has just been a lot more than you bargained for, then it may not bee too terribly difficult to find a breeder. There isn't the same support out there for people with "special needs" dogs the way there are for special needs kids. You're completely on your own, and not everyone can handle the challenge.

[Bird Girl]

I would agree that it's not ok to plan your family size around a dog, who, at best, may only live another ten years. It does sound like you've given up on the main methods of controlling a problem dog--crating is basically it, for a dog who's demonstrated that he's destructive in the backyard and will chew through leashes.

I'm surprised that you saw a behaviorist who wouldn't let you perform corrections but who did not help you acclimatize the dog to a crate. It's either/or, in my opinion--either the dog is corrected for unacceptable behavior, or he's removed from the situation via the crate--by letting him decide who can come over and how long they may stay, you are allowing him to take the leadership role in the family. No wonder you feel hopeless.

I would decide which method of training fits your personality best--the behaviorist method of crating when you can't directly supervise the dog and using rewards to condition the behavior you want, or the traditional method of correcting the dog when he behaves badly. Crate training will proceed more quickly if you begin only feeding the dog in his crate--you can stuff the food in Kong toys first, to make the meal last longer. Do NOT open his door before he gives you a minute of silence--you will prolong the agony.

In either case, I recommend the "Nothing In Life is Free" protocol. Before the dog gets anything, and I do mean anything, he must perform the act you ask for--most people choose "down" but you can make it whatever you like. Don't open the door, put food on the floor, or attach the leash unless the dog is in the right position.

It's possible he also needs more exercise--most young dogs need to be run, not walked, every day. I have a puppy, and two kids, so I really understand how difficult it can be to make time for this.

You can look for rehoming options while you use NILF protocol and start crate training. You will make life more livable for yourself while you make him a better fit for more homes.

Finally, don't kid yourself about this dog's prospects. Unless he's a gorgeous example of whatever breed he is, most five-year-old dogs aren't good adoptions prospects. Unless you know someone who can and will take him, you are better off euthanizing him yourself than surrendering him to most shelter situations--he's chock full of behavior problems, and he's pretty old for most potential adopters. Better to send him to doggy heaven now than to consign him to a miserable string of weeks in a kennel or cage and multiple failed re-placements.

[russsk]

Originally Posted by Bird Girl

I would agree that it's not ok to plan your family size around a dog, who, at best, may only live another ten years. It does sound like you've given up on the main methods of controlling a problem dog--crating is basically it, for a dog who's demonstrated that he's destructive in the backyard and will chew through leashes.

I'm surprised that you saw a behaviorist who wouldn't let you perform corrections but who did not help you acclimatize the dog to a crate. It's either/or, in my opinion--either the dog is corrected for unacceptable behavior, or he's removed from the situation via the crate--by letting him decide who can come over and how long they may stay, you are allowing him to take the leadership role in the family. No wonder you feel hopeless.

I would decide which method of training fits your personality best--the behaviorist method of crating when you can't directly supervise the dog and using rewards to condition the behavior you want, or the traditional method of correcting the dog when he behaves badly. Crate training will proceed more quickly if you begin only feeding the dog in his crate--you can stuff the food in Kong toys first, to make the meal last longer. Do NOT open his door before he gives you a minute of silence--you will prolong the agony.

In either case, I recommend the "Nothing In Life is Free" protocol. Before the dog gets anything, and I do mean anything, he must perform the act you ask for--most people choose "down" but you can make it whatever you like. Don't open the door, put food on the floor, or attach the leash unless the dog is in the right position.

It's possible he also needs more exercise--most young dogs need to be run, not walked, every day. I have a puppy, and two kids, so I really understand how difficult it can be to make time for this.

You can look for rehoming options while you use NILF protocol and start crate training. You will make life more livable for yourself while you make him a better fit for more homes.

Finally, don't kid yourself about this dog's prospects. Unless he's a gorgeous example of whatever breed he is, most five-year-old dogs aren't good adoptions prospects. Unless you know someone who can and will take him, you are better off euthanizing him yourself than surrendering him to most shelter situations--he's chock full of behavior problems, and he's pretty old for most potential adopters. Better to send him to doggy heaven now than to consign him to a miserable string of weeks in a kennel or cage and multiple failed re-placements.

I think I glossed over our time with the behaviorist a bit. When we sought her out, a crate was the least of our issues. We used the crate to housebreak him, and keep him from destroying things while we were at work. He was fine in the crate, until the Fourth of July. We didn't know he had a noise phobia until then and boy was it bad. After that night, we had so many problems. He would freak out in his crate, he would refuse to go outside for any reason whatsoever, his eyes would glaze over and he would shake at the slightest sound, etc. We sort of tackled one issue at a time with the behaviorist - first getting him to go outside, etc. We eventually had to stop, though, because we ran out of money. She never really pushed us to get him back into the crate, though I'm sure as we worked through his problems she would have. This is something I know I should be working on, I just feel overwhelmed. I can do better, though.

As for exercise, that's one thing I'm pretty sure we do right. Our first dog is an Australian Shepherd, and I know his exercise needs are huge (that's one of the reasons I got him). The dogs get vigorous exercise every day, unless it's pouring out. If they didn't, I would have two unhappy dogs instead of one.

As for rehoming, after thinking about it, I don't think I'm comfortable finding him a new home unless its someone I know. I'm worried that he will be shuffled from home to home, or that he would bite someone. He's never bitten (at least since we've had him, but he has nipped, which is bad enough) but it is a concern, because he doesn't give warning sigals like normal dogs. To the average person he just looks like he's chilling, when he should be giving overt warning signs, like growling. For instance, sticks scare him. We had an experience once where a man with a cane was walking by. The dog gave no obvious sign (obvious to an avg person like me, someone more experienced would see it, I'm sure) that he was afraid - no growling, stiffening, trying to get away, nothing, just a far-away glazed look - but I knew he was afraid of sticks and removed him. I would worry that if he were unrestrained and in that situation, he would bite if the man got to close, you know? I'm careful not to put him in situations like that, or remove him, and keep him restrained, but another person might not.

A friend - one of the few people the dog is comfortable with - has offered to take him sometime next year when he leaves his apartment. I trust this person with the dog, and know he would do everything for him, but I worry that it wouldn't be fair to him. The friend, that is. He was hoping to get a dog, and it hardly seems fair to ask him to take this one, who has so many problems. I will need to think about this, and make sure he understands what he would be taking on. On the plus side, I would get to stay in the dog's life (and so would our other dog).

Bird Girl and Noelle, thanks for suggesting euthanasia. I don't know if this is the right choice for us or for the dog, but it really validates my feelings to hear that I'm not some horrible, selfish person for even thinking about it.

I know in the grand scheme of things this seems like a pretty minor thing - he's just a dog, right? - but it feels like the hardest decision I've ever had to make.

[SleeplessMommy]

I am not really sure why your husband is against meds ... surely the dog on meds is better than euthanasia? or better than limiting family size, visitors, vacation and other lifestyle choices because of the dog's fears?

IF the meds work, they might only be temporary - reduced anxiety will help the dog relearn behaviors and become comfortable in the crate, with the door shut. Once those new behaviors are learned, you could taper the meds dosage.

If you adopted a child who had experienced significant long term trauma, would you consider meds for that child (as an adult) to help them go about normal, everyday activities without fear?

It would be understandable to euthanize the dog, or to re-home to a quieter location. But you care deeply about this dog and I think you want to try everything (reasonably) possible to keep him with you until a home you consider safe is available.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

[COLOR="Magenta"]I've seen at-home euths before, and they are very peaceful. The animals are given a shot to help them relax first. It's hard to watch still, but a lot easier on the animal. I know a lot of people would never put down a physically healthy animal, but I'm thinking in terms of quality of life.

This is off on a tangent, but I just wanted to mention that my DH and I had our 14yo Chihuahua put down a few weeks ago, and he was physically healthy. He was arthritic, but not sick. His level of senility had increased to the point that his anxiety and confusion were also increasing, and his quality of life was sucking, which was making our quality of life suck, too.

Anyway....the vet explained to us that, because he was alert and not in pain, that the tranquilizer injection would make him yelp. Apparently, it's pretty intense. I expected a single, loud yelp like a dog might yelp at any injection....oh, no....my boy yelped and cried hysterically for about 30-45 seconds (which seemed like an eternity), until the medication took effect.

It was already seriously hard to make the decision to put him down, and that was just the icing on the cake. I've euthanized sick animals before, and it was nothing like what we recently experienced.

[Noelle C.]

Originally Posted by 2xy

This is off on a tangent, but I just wanted to mention that my DH and I had our 14yo Chihuahua put down a few weeks ago, and he was physically healthy. He was arthritic, but not sick. His level of senility had increased to the point that his anxiety and confusion were also increasing, and his quality of life was sucking, which was making our quality of life suck, too.

Anyway....the vet explained to us that, because he was alert and not in pain, that the tranquilizer injection would make him yelp. Apparently, it's pretty intense. I expected a single, loud yelp like a dog might yelp at any injection....oh, no....my boy yelped and cried hysterically for about 30-45 seconds (which seemed like an eternity), until the medication took effect.

It was already seriously hard to make the decision to put him down, and that was just the icing on the cake. I've euthanized sick animals before, and it was nothing like what we recently experienced.

I don't think your vet knew what the hell he was doing. Inject that stuff OUTSIDE of the vein and it's going to hurt! I've witnessed many euths, and when the med is IN the vein, it's peaceful. Similar to many IV pain drugs for humans - in the vein it is okay, or in the case of Demerol, burning for a few moments before sweet, sweet relief, at worst, but if a vein infiltrates so the drug goes outside the vein, OH MY GOD give me DEATH (yeah, I've been in that position).

I'm horrified at what your vet did. Seriously I question your vet's abilities.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

I don't think your vet knew what the hell he was doing. Inject that stuff OUTSIDE of the vein and it's going to hurt! I've witnessed many euths, and when the med is IN the vein, it's peaceful. Similar to many IV pain drugs for humans - in the vein it is okay, or in the case of Demerol, burning for a few moments before sweet, sweet relief, at worst, but if a vein infiltrates so the drug goes outside the vein, OH MY GOD give me DEATH (yeah, I've been in that position).

I'm horrified at what your vet did. Seriously I question your vet's abilities.

From the Wellsphere website:

The two injection method

The currently favored method of euthanasia in veterinary private practice settings is that of the so-called “two injection method.”

In this approach an initial injection is given, either in the vein (IV) or in the muscle (IM),to achieve extreme sedation. A second injection is then administered IV to overdose the animal with an anesthetic drug.

Yeah, it was pretty awful....but probably preferable than trying to find a vein on a hyper, anxious, running-around, 4.5 lb dog.

[Bird Girl]

Russsk, it's not horrifying or morally wrong or anything else to consider (or to make the decision) to euthanize an anxious, unhappy animal. Dogs are not people; they are animals, created by us and for us, and cared for by us. Euthanizing an animal because you can no longer care for him in his particular mental health state is no different from euthanizing an arthritic dog--he's suffering, at least somewhat, from all his fears and worries, in the same way that damaged joints cause suffering, and you will be permanently taking that suffering away.

It may be worth a trial of anxiety medication to see if you can get him staying happily in his crate again--it may reduce the other stresses if you know you can stash him somewhere safe. But if it doesn't work, then you've done what you can. A single fear or phobia is something that can be attacked behaviorally. But the personality type that develops so many fears and phobias is something that is inherited, in the same way that bad hips can be inherited. Think of it this way; someone, somewhere, five years ago made a bad breeding choice, or allowed a bad breeding choice to occur. You've been cleaning up their mess for four years. You are allowed to decide that you no longer wish to clean up this particular mess, and let him go. You can act with love, even if you cannot cure him.

[Nicole915]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

I don't think your vet knew what the hell he was doing. Inject that stuff OUTSIDE of the vein and it's going to hurt! I've witnessed many euths, and when the med is IN the vein, it's peaceful.

I'm horrified at what your vet did. Seriously I question your vet's abilities.

Medication being outside the vein is NOT the only reason this dog vocalized and reacted the way he did. Questioning the medical capacity of a vet who understood that this might be an issue enough to warn the owners is not warranted. There are many psychoactive meds that cause vocalization because they stimulate part of the brain, but is not a function of your guess that the iv cath was misplaced, or that the needle was outside the vein wall. Further, most of the pre-euth tranq meds used in veterinary medicine do not cause discomfort when given sub-q or IM. The sad luxury of a pre-euth tranq is that we can use the old meds that ruin the liver and kidney, but don't cause any pain.

There are very difficult euths. Not every animal goes peacefully. I understand these forums are not a place where evidence based medicine is the gold standard, but assuming that a mistake was made in the first place seems very short sighted, if not ignorant.

[russsk]

Thanks so much for all your suggestions. I've been working on him with the crate, though it hasn't been going well. I've also ordered a collar that releases pheromones that might help, and we're going to look into psychotropic drugs. I'm not sure what the next steps will be, but that's where we are right now.

[greenmagick]

some dogs do have a really hard time with a crate. You mentioned shutting him in the basement but he scratches the door? A lot of dogs will react to a shut door....they feel trapped if they cant see out. I know of a lot of people who use a half door on a dog room to keep them more calm. Also though, if you use something like that, you have to spend a lot of time in that room with the dog, playing, eating, etc so it is a very normal place for them to be.

I definitely would not do corrections on this dog....I really dont believe in them for any dog, but especially not for an already fearful one! That is not to say you wont have to physically stop certain behaviors, but you dont have to correct.

Have you read any books? Patricia McConnell has one about fear issues in dogs and there is also a book called click to calm on using clicker training to get an extrememly dog aggressive dog calm and accepting of other dogs. I know your dog isnt dog aggressive, but the principles are basically the same as this dog was lashing out because of extreme fear.

When all is said and done though, I had to put my dog down about 1 1/2 year ago....she was becoming increasingly more unstable and unhappy.