My super itchy GSD...

[Lisalee2]

Could you all give me some tips, please?

Our German Shepherd, Diesel, has been so itchy lately. We use Frontline, so I don't think it's a flea issue. He scratches at certain spots until they're red, sore, and sometimes bleeding.

We were feeding him Canidae since we got him @ 8 weeks, and decided to switch to Costco's brand Kirkland food (Nutra Nuggets) about 2 months ago (money issues). It seems like his itchiness has gotten worse. (Which is not worth it to save $15 per month)

I'll have to compare ingredients, but with your experience, are the two foods that different to cause such a change in his skin?

Are there other foods that are even better than Canidae that I should try? Or just go back to Canidae?

[Ola_]

Poor monkey! When did the itchyness start? One of my dogs has fall allergies and it seems this year they started around the beginning of August. I also have seasonal allergies and mine seemed to kick in about the same time. What spots is he scratching?

We've got Chaos on Benadryl at the moment, as well as fish oil capsules (natural anti-inflammatories) and some bioflavanoids (which act like natural anti-histamines). If you think it may be environmental you can try regularly rinsing the affected areas. Already scratched spots I like to soak in an epsom salt solution every few days to help them heal and prevent any infections. Fortunately for Chaos it's her feet that are the most bothersome so they are pretty easy to dunk into a bucket for a rinse.

If you suspect it's food based I would probably go to a limited ingredient food. I think California Natural has some good varieties.

[Lisalee2]

You know, he's always been an itchy guy. But now, it's just getting worse. I would say within the last 2 months (I'm guessing around the time we switched foods, but it could be seasonal).

He's mostly itching in his undercarriage area. Backs of front legs, armpits, belly. He also has an itchy spot on his chin, and dh and I just noticed this morning that he's scratched there so much, he has a little bald spot.

I'm going to talk to dh tonight about switching back to Canidae, or looking for another food that doesn't have wheat. I noticed the food we're feeding him now has wheat flour as the 3rd ingredient as opposed to Canidae which had no wheat.

Thanks for your response!

[cyncyn]

Our dog has also been increasingly itchy this fall. We just switched yesterday from California Naturals lamb & rice to a gluten free allergen free food with duck and sweet potato and hopefully that will help. I don't know the name as dh bought it after discussion with the local shop owner but it comes in a light orange bag . Fish-based foods were also suggested. I have heard of dust mites being a big allergen for dogs so I will be UV sanitizing the beds.

[Ola_]

Sounds like he may be allergic to multiple things. Food may be a constant with seasonal allergies adding to it. I recall reading that allergic dogs are usually allergic to a number of things, it's rarely just one.

How often are you bathing him? I would be sure not to do it too often, though rinsing with plain water more frequently may help with getting the pollens off his coat. Also, I'd get some fish oil capsules (we get ours from Costco but any pharmacy will do) for him as a supplement. The "regular" dosage for fish oil is 1000 mg (that's usually 1 capsule) per 30 lbs of dog's weight per day, but for health problems you can go to the "therapeutic" dosage of 1000 mg per 10 lbs (that's what my allergic pup is getting now). Start with one capsule per day and slowly work up as the oil is a fat and can loosen stools in some dogs.

My dogs think the fish oil pills are yummy treats, they will do tricks for them. The omega-3's in them act as a natural anti-inflammatory and it will help with dry skin issues also.

Also because of the location of the scratching I would consider whether your floor cleaner or detergent used to wash dog beds/blankets could be contributing.

Originally Posted by cyncyn

Our dog has also been increasingly itchy this fall. We just switched yesterday from California Naturals lamb & rice to a gluten free allergen free food with duck and sweet potato and hopefully that will help. I don't know the name as dh bought it after discussion with the local shop owner but it comes in a light orange bag

Perhaps it's Natural Balance?
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/PandD.html

[Oubliette8]

I had a dog with severe skin allergies- we found she was allergic to chicken, and also environmental allergies. We switched her to a grain free, fish based food and she did much better (although still somewhat itchy from her other allergies) I compared the cost.day to feed every suitable fish diet I could find, and ended up feeding Timberwolf Ocean Blue. Later we switched to Orijen 6Fish. they are very pricey per bag, but you feed so little that its considerably cheaper per day (in our case, we saved $15-$30/month) If you want to compare cost/day to feed of foods in your area, here's the formula-

You can use the equation- (price per bag * weight of 1 cup (in pounds) * number of recommended cups per day)/weight of the bag (in pounds)

That will give you the price/day
For the weight of one cup, I weighed a cup of the kibble I was feeding, I figured weight can't vary too drastically across kibbles
For the # of reccomended cups, I used the lowest reccomended # of cups/day for my weight dog. Normally with food, I find you have to feed even less than that in actual practice (Unless your dog is exceptionally active, or prone to being thin)

[lifeguard]

Our gsd mix has seasonal allergies - at this time of year she is miserably itchy. We give her benadryl on the worst days. Once we get our first hard frost she improves dramatically.

[Nicole915]

Is he also licking his paws a bunch? That is often a red flag for grass allergies, which can sometimes crop up right now.

It would be wise to first rule out fleas. Using a flea comb look for fleas or flea dirt (it will turn red when on a white tissue and dampened, as the flea dirt is blood). Fleas can become resistant to medications like Frontline, and you might need to switch to another product.

If you and your vet decide to look at food allergies, here is a good link to an article about how to properly run a food trial. They are one of those things that is really difficult to do right. You'd be shocked at how many vets can't even do it with our own dogs without messing up =)

[Lisalee2]

I'm going to go out and buy Canidae today and start feeding him that. I have also noticed that since we switched foods, he's been getting smellier between baths. We usually bathe him 1 or 2 times a month, which would keep him smelling good, but lately, just a couple days after his bath, he's already stinky.

Most of his scratching and chewing is on the insides of his front legs and armpit area. But last night dh and I noticed that his lip on one side is a little pink and irritated looking. The other side is fine, just black skin, but on his right, it's reddish. I want my doggie to feel better!

[Ola_]

Wow, that is a lot of baths. My dogs normally get bathed an average of once a year. We spot clean when they get muddy feet because of rain or stuff but that's really all they need.

The pink lip may be from scratching, like with his back feet.

[USAmma]

This is a long shot but worth investigating. My IL's GS ended up with an infection of tiny skin mites that live under the skin. THe vet was able to dx this by scraping a little skin and putting it under the microscope. If your dog has this, he will need treatment from a vet. So, if all the advice above doesn't work please do see if you can rule out these mites. It's a really awful thing to live with.

[Sailor]

I have a GSD too.

I know, financially, it's tough to buy the expensive food ... but, here's the thing, if this started after you switched foods - he is having a reaction to that food, no doubt about it. What you're describing sounds so typical of the dogs I see with allergies. The itchy skin, the red/irritated patches, the stronger smell ... all of that is indicative of the food being bad for him.

Him always being an itchy guy ... again that can totally be a food issue (assuming no fleas/etc). You can treat the symptoms, but they're not going to ever go away if you don't remove the source.

I feed raw, and I realize a lot of people aren't comfortable with that. But, my dog has no skin issues, no allergies, no smell (literally - even his poop is odorless), and perfectly white teeth.

For me, it's cheaper to feed raw because I would be feeding Timberwolf Organics otherwise. Timberwolf is insanely expensive!

I would do a cost analysis of feeding raw in your situation. Conversely, I would find a food that is grain free - that includes corn. Corn and wheat are one of the most common allergens in dogs. Sometimes dogs who don't tolerate those can tolerate brown rice, so maybe that's an ingredient that would be OK in kibble. Keep in mind that dogs eat less of a high quality kibble than ones that have more fillers. Your dog doesn't need to always be an itchy dog.

For the time being, fish oil as a supplement can help his itchy skin. You can either pour it over his food, or give in capsules. Also, I'd stop feeding him this new food immediately. And, don't give him baths. The more baths you give him, the more irritated his skin will become at this point. He needs the natural oils in his coat to help him.

[lifeguard]

I'd back off on the baths as well - they can be irritating to the skin. Our girl gets about two a year (usually dictated by her rolling in something gross or getting skunked).

[Lisalee2]

Thanks for your replies! They're very helpful.

Sailor ~ I'm very interested in feeding Diesel a raw diet, it just seems like a lot of work. I don't even know where to begin. Where do you get the bulk of your meat/bones? At a regular grocery store? It seems like it would be expensive. Do you feed other things like veggies too? There is a meat market opening up in our neighborhood, I was thinking I could go over there and ask for a discount on parts they don't use, etc. but don't really know what I'm looking for yet. An odorless dog with odorless poo sounds pretty good. lol

As far as baths go, it's funny how you hear different things from everyone. Some people say washing their dogs once a week is fine and others think that's too much, etc. I guess it's different for each dog. Since Diesel is so itchy, we should probably cut back. He just gets so stinky that if I don't wash him often, I don't like to let him in the house as much. I still do of course but it's so much nicer when he's smelling fresh.

Also, I'll look into the fish oils. It sounds like that would be really good for his skin.

[Ola_]

We feed a raw diet also. It's not nearly as much work as you'd think, though I find some people like to make it more complicated than it needs to be (i.e. BARF). You will feed about 2-3% of your dog's weight per day, so for example a 50 lb dog would need 1-1.5 lbs. I found that after I started raw I was able to slowly find new sources and get items for lower prices - definitely check out the meat market.

We don't feed veggies because dogs can't digest them. The key components of the raw diet are meat, bone, and organs. I normally suggest that folks start with chicken leg quarters as long as your dog is not allergic to chicken. They have a decent amount of meat and are easy to find, typically at good prices.

Also, just wondering from your previous comment, does your dog spend a lot of time outside? If so, that may be a factor in the smelly-ness.

[Lisalee2]

He's inside and out throughout the day. He sleeps inside with us and goes out periodically. The yard is mostly grass, no real dirt or mud to get "dirty" in. How does being outside make them smell more?

Thanks for the tips on raw feeding. Occasionally, when we have a bulk pack of chicken thigs/legs, we'll give him a piece, but haven't tried feeding him only raw. I'm definitely going to look into it more.

Ola...What benefits have you noticed from feeding your dog(s) raw? How many dogs do you have? What breed? Just curious.

[Ola_]

You know, I don't know how it works since dogs don't sweat through their skin like we do. But when I take my dogs for a longer hike I notice when we get back home that they are more "doggie smelling", especially Chaos who has a double coat. After a couple of hours it dissipates. Odd, isn't it?

I have two dogs - Chaos is about 6.5 yrs old and an elkhound mix (she's my little spitfire ) and Mayhem is a 10.5 yrs old retired racing greyhound (he's the big mellow dude).

I've been feeding my dogs raw for about 4.5 years now. Their poop is definitely less smelly and much, much smaller. Actually Mayhem didn't have reliably solid poop until we switched to raw. Also, the firm stools that raw produces helps to naturally express anal glands when they poop, which avoids the scooting and butt licking. Greyhounds are known for having tooth issues and many need dentals every year - Mayhem hasn't needed one since we adopted him 5 years ago.

The other benefit is that when I was learning about raw I came across websites talking about other natural ways of doing things. We've since significantly reduced the vaccines the dogs get (3 year rabies only), as well as stopped using other chemicals on them.

[Sailor]

Yes, raw isn't all that hard. I also think BARF makes it overly complicated. I don't feed my dog veggies either. He can't digest them anyway unless I run them through the food processor first. And, honestly, I've never seen a wolf in the wild willingly chomping down on carrots. I do give my dog an occasional egg ... but, that's more for the entertainment of watching him roll it around the floor with his nose before eating it. I'm easily amused, lol.

I get my meat from a variety of places. I check sales in grocery stores weekly - I just hit up an Albertson's sale two weeks ago: buy one, get one free. They had everything from steak to chicken to pork. I got less than $100.00 worth of stuff and it will last 4 months for my dog who weighs 95 lb. I also found a great butcher who saves things like organ meat, chicken necks, and bones for me. He gives them to me for free as no one buys them anyway. He'd throw them out otherwise. Also, my mom's dp lives on 400 acres and has both deer and wild turkey on his land. He gives me the occasional deer and turkey - which is free, though I do have to be there in order to prep the meat. He doesn't skin or anything like that. It's all my job. The things I do for my dog - the worst were the years when I was a raw food vegan!

GSD's have two coats, so to speak. They have the outer fur layer and the inner fur. Too many baths for them will really irritate their natural oils. Wiping with a damp cloth is better, if you absolutely need to.

I always wipe my dog's paws before going into the house. I've trained him to wait at the door while I get a damp cloth and wash his paws. Otherwise, he gets a bath - maybe - once a year. Although, I do rub him down with a damp cloth if we go to the dog beach and he goes into the ocean. Otherwise ... I don't think he's smelly at all. My dp, who isn't a dog fan, says he only notices a slight smell after we've been running.

Do you brush your dog? I make this a daily occurrence. Actually, I do it in the mornings after our run and in the evenings after our game of fetch. First, it diminishes the amount of hair in the house - I could knit with the amount of fur he sheds! And it really helps makes his coat/skin shine.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by Sailor

I do give my dog an occasional egg ... but, that's more for the entertainment of watching him roll it around the floor with his nose before eating it.

I love eggs - they're the perfect "I forgot to thaw something" food at our house. Though I crack them into bowls for the dogs, neither one will eat eggshells.

[Lisalee2]

Originally Posted by Ola_

I have two dogs - Chaos is about 6.5 yrs old and an elkhound mix (she's my little spitfire ) and Mayhem is a 10.5 yrs old retired racing greyhound (he's the big mellow dude).

Chaos & Mayhem...I love it!

I'm going to try to get over to the meat market that's opening up soon. I'll let you know how it goes. As far as Diesel's itching is concerned, it actually seems to be getting a little better already. I've been feeding him the Canidae for 3 or 4 days now and his hot spots are less red and definitely not oozing as much. They were at the point where he would scratch and they would bleed He seems to be happier now. I've been brushing him more with his rake too, seems to like that!

As far as baths are concerned, is it the soap that irritates so much? If he gets to the point where he needs a rinse, could I just use plain water? I like the idea of using a wet towel just to wipe also.

Sailor - I understand what you mean about being able to knit with the amount of fur he sheds. He's been shedding less lately, but there were times when he'd lay down and I'd see a pile of fur, it's like he gave birth...lol