Legality of forced adult flu vaccinations

[AbundantLife]

I am an Administrative Assistant who works in a hospital. This year, we are required to get a flu vaccine or sign a religious or health-related (allergies are the only acceptable excuse and must be documented by a physician) declination.
I have never gotten a flu shot and do not intend to this year.

I don't know what to do. I have until the beginning of November to produce documentation that I got it elsewhere or come up with a doctor's excuse.

[Marnica]

Refuse on religious grounds....they are telling you you can sign a religious declination so I'm confused as to your dilemma??

[AbundantLife]

The wording says, "religious declination forms will be available to those who qualify."

I'm not sure what that means.

[just_lily]

I think it is time to have a religious epiphany.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

The wording says, "religious declination forms will be available to those who qualify."

I'm not sure what that means.

It means YOU qualify. And do not reveal your religion. That is your business only.

Any religion qualifies, even if it's a home religion.

[cyncyn]

In some states, religious exemption can be a philosophical exemption. In either case, the law prevents asking what religion you practice or on what grounds you are claiming a religious exemption. I would request the form and read the fine print to see if it specifically list philosophical beliefs.

[Leav97]

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

The wording says, "religious declination forms will be available to those who qualify."

I'm not sure what that means.

Get a hold of the form. See how the form is worded. Figure out if it is something you are willing to sign. (I would probably sign it.)

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by cyncyn

In some states, religious exemption can be a philosophical exemption. In either case, the law prevents asking what religion you practice or on what grounds you are claiming a religious exemption. I would request the form and read the fine print to see if it specifically list philosophical beliefs.

this is not true in NY. the wording of the law allows the state to question religious beliefs to see if they are 'sincere'.

ny has also declared a 'state of emergency' for flu (swine and seasonal) and healthcare workers there will not have the option of exempting out at all. because of the 'state of emergency' the health department of NY has some sweeping legal powers that trump state health law (including exemptions)

[MountainMamaGC]

I read somewhere that 2/3 of nurses do not want this vaccine. If 2/3 of nurses stood their ground on the subject they would not lose thier jobs because it would be catastrophic if 2/3 of nurses were fired. Heck even if the number was more like 1/3 it would still cause problems. You should make an effort to find all of the nurses who dont want this vax and stand your ground together.

[offwing]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

I read somewhere that 2/3 of nurses do not want this vaccine.

I guessing what you are remembering reading was about the poll of 1,500 UK nurses carried out by Nursing Times back in early August. Overall, 30% of respondents to the magazine's online questionnaire replied 'no' when asked if they would seek to be immunised when the vaccine became available; only 37% said 'yes', while a further 33% remained answered 'maybe'.

Does that sound like what you remember?

Polls are a bit of a problem of course, especially this one where the respondents are self-selected.

Is anyone aware of any other survey/poll that has been done?

[AbundantLife]

Thanks, all.

In a perfect world, I would be able to express my reasons for not wanting this vaccine and not have to lie about it.

[cyncyn]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

this is not true in NY. the wording of the law allows the state to question religious beliefs to see if they are 'sincere'.

ny has also declared a 'state of emergency' for flu (swine and seasonal) and healthcare workers there will not have the option of exempting out at all. because of the 'state of emergency' the health department of NY has some sweeping legal powers that trump state health law (including exemptions)

Originally Posted by offwing

I guessing what you are remembering reading was about the poll of 1,500 UK nurses carried out by Nursing Times back in early August. Overall, 30% of respondents to the magazine's online questionnaire replied 'no' when asked if they would seek to be immunised when the vaccine became available; only 37% said 'yes', while a further 33% remained answered 'maybe'.

Does that sound like what you remember?

Polls are a bit of a problem of course, especially this one where the respondents are self-selected.

Is anyone aware of any other survey/poll that has been done?

Sorry about the misinformation on asking about religion. I wasn't aware that NY allowed questioning. That just seems wrong.

I have also read a survey that was US and included doctors and other healthcare providers. I don't remember the details (I will try to find the source later today) but the majority did not want the vaccine due to concerns about its safety and efficacy.

I have read (also no source yet sorry) that the main reason for all the hype on the vaccine is not because the swine flu is so deadly to the general population but because of the effect on the economy if thousands of people call in sick or are unable to work for a couple weeks.

[Deefodil]

My hospital is doing this as well. I have the religious exemption form around here somewhere - I need to find it and post it here. I have no idea how to fill it out - they are asking for a specific religion, a copy of the part of the doctrine that forbids vaxes, an dthe signature of a clergy.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Deefodil

My hospital is doing this as well. I have the religious exemption form around here somewhere - I need to find it and post it here. I have no idea how to fill it out - they are asking for a specific religion, a copy of the part of the doctrine that forbids vaxes, an dthe signature of a clergy.

I have something for you. This is my information based on school exemptions. The first paragraph you will need to alter a bit, but the second includes a court case that involved religious discrimination in the workplace. I would submit it in lieu of or as an attachment to your work letter.


The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.

Your religious beliefs can change, so you can exempt a previously vaxed child. You could also pretend your child is not vaxed to make life easier.


Some states, like NY(contact Gary Krasner for help -- On the NYS form they request that your letter:

-explains why are you are requesting the exemption
-describes the religious principles that guide your objection to vaxes
-indicates whether you are opposed to all vaxes, and if not, why you are opposed to some vaxes but not others

As long as your letter covered those 3 points then they shouldn't ask for any "supporting evidence".)


and NJ allow the state to question the sincerity of your beliefs; the following is VERY important.



-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.

-Also, you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination. Dr. Mercola does a good job of explaining this in my Religious Exemptions link below (you may have to register to read it).

-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.


-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Exemptions

The Wexler Decision

To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...uirements.aspx
http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/


All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).

State mandatory vaccination laws have their roots in the 1905 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Jacobsen v Massachusetts. A Swedish Lutheran pastor, Reverend Henning Jacobsen and his son objected to a law requiring revaccination with smallpox vaccine because they had suffered severe reactions to the first vaccination. The nine Supreme Court justices at the turn of the century denied Jacobsen and his lawyers the right to present scientific evidence for harm caused by the smallpox vaccine, preferring to believe the lawyers representing public health officials who convinced them that doctors could predict ahead of time who would be injured by vaccination.

100wds.



A US Federal Court ruling (binding on NY only) that determined that you do not have to belong to a particular religion to use a religious exemption is:
Sherr v. Northport-East Northport Union Free Sch. Dist., 672 F. Supp. 81, 89-90 (E.D. N.Y. 1987)
http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/consent.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/...es_chptr13.htm

Sample Religious Exemption Letter(change the state law reference):

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, ARTICLE 21. CONTROL OF ACUTE COMMUNICABLE DISEASES,TITLE VI. POLIOMYELITIS AND OTHER DISEASES, NY CLS Pub Health § 2164 (2002), to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, ALL injections, prophylaxis, & testing due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

[13Sandals]

please keep in mind that there are several things going on right now. Many states and hospitals are urging more forcefully that health care workers take flu shots, but state exemptions still stand. KNOW your rights.

However, in NYS - the rule disallows religious exemptions. the state of emergency trumps the state health law and religious exemptions are NOT being honored for healthcare workers in NY (tomorrow it may be school kids, or ANYONE, or YOUR state).

There are groups challenging the legality of this in NY right now and a rally going on 9/29 in Albany, NY. Everyone should be watching this though - because if its stands in NY, there is absolutely nothing standing in the way of our exemptions being pulled everywhere.

[mysticmomma]

I guess I need to hurry up and become an MD so I can write everyone medical exemptions.

[LisaSedai]

I think it is time to have a religious epiphany.

:rofl

I read somewhere that 2/3 of nurses do not want this vaccine.

I think that is from the nurses in France. At my workplace, even ones who have refused reg. flu in the past are now getting it b/c we would have to wear a mask 6 months otherwise. A number of nurses I've worked with are saying no way to the swine flu one at this point, it's not available yet. Not sure if the mask rule will apply to that one. CEO said we had to get both but nurse manager said they are backing off of the swine flu requirement. Who knows? We got some email at work the other day with all sorts of figures like if healthcare workers were 100% vaxed it would decrease hospital flu deaths by 40% blah blah. No source on those numbers.

I want to know why if the flu vaccine is so effective that every year the CDC says there are 30,000 (or whatever the official number is) flu related deaths. Why then, were there not 60,000 deaths the year half the flu vaccine doses were unavailable due to the contamination at the vaccine plant. Why does the death number not go up the year it is only effective on 1 of the 3 strains circulating (as last year) It is such a bunch of malarky.

[Crazybean]

This bothers me because I did read about NY and their "mandatory" vaccines because of the state of emergency and the bill they signed into law. If NY is doing this, I fear it will be a matter of time before other states follow. I AM a nurse and I am 4 weeks pregnant- the LAST thing I want is to be injected with anything I don't want because of a state of emergency. I also can't just "quit" my job- it's not easy in this economy and the nursing shortage isn't that bad around here. Being pregnant doesn't make the situation any better. I hope there is a huge rally and they eliminate that law. This is truly ridiculous.

[momma_unlimited]

I also can't just "quit" my job- it's not easy in this economy and the nursing shortage isn't that bad around here.

I don't think you have to quit... I think you would be discharged and could collect unemployment. And if a heck of a lot of people do it, the state will suffer (paying out unemployment and having a severe staffing shortage).

[kimmypoo]

At the hospital I work for, signing the declination is no big deal. You just go to employee health and sign the form, no questions asked. Last year, I "forgot" to sign one and no one said anything to me about it.

I do know of a hospital that sent an email telling the employees that if they don't get the shot, then it's considered a "voluntary resignation."

I guess different places have different requirements.