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2 Year Old and "NO"

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I have a 2 year old daughter who is very articulate and can communicate her needs and wants easily. I am having difficulty lately though as when I ask her to come to me or to do anything she doesn't want to, she automatically says "NO." Now I do realize that this is typical of her age etc., but I also do not want her to think it is okay to just ignore what I am asking and outright refuse to listen. When she does say "NO" I'm not sure how to handle it in a "gentle discipline way." I usually ask over and over again(almost like begging and bribing), but that doesn't seem to be working and I think it sends the wrong message. So what would you moms do so that your 2 year old was being respected and yet what needed to get done was still getting done?
An example was yesterday when it was bath time she refused to come upstairs. I ended up coming to get her and carrying her up the stairs crying......which I felt wasn't really respectful to her, but at the same time we needed to leave the house soon and the bath had to be taken. Taking a bath when needed is something that is non-negotiable in our home so just letting her go without was not an option IMO.
post #2 of 11
Wow. You could be talking about my son. I know it's developmentally appropriate, but, wow, does it get old hearing no all the time. I'm sure my theories aren't new, but I absolutely pick my battles. ( How important is the bath today?) And, I don't ask about things that are non-negotiable and I instead give choices that are negotiable. We're going to go take a bath. Do you want bubbles today? Which toy would you like to play with? If I'm still getting the no, I give him as much time as possible to get used to the idea. We ARE going up to bath in 10 minutes. Would you like to play trains for now or trucks? We're going up to bath in 5 minutes. Would you like a snack right now? 2 minute warning... 1 minute warning But sometimes, it just has to be I'm carrrying you screaming to the goal. It sucks. Usually, if we get to that point, which actually is rather rare, I try to forever distract with games, silly faces, raspberries on the belly, etc. "Oh wow! AJ did you know you could fly? Wow, look at you go! You're flying!!!" "Oh, I hope some big guy doesn't blow raspberries on my tummy!"

P.S. I don't ask over and over again. IMO some things are negotiable (many, many things), but some things are not. So, I figure once I've said it's non-negotiable, I'll never ask again. I figure this will change as he gets older.
post #3 of 11
I'm way past that point of parenting (DS is 10) but here are a few thoughts. I should note that some of these are strategies that probably would have worked better for me at 3 than at 2, because I don't have a particularly verbal child. However, given that it sounds like you do have a verbal child they might work well for you now.

1) Is this an impulse control thing (your use of the word "automatic" makes me think it probably is) -- her initial response is no, and then she digs in her heels and can't change. If so, then I'd consider telling her and then walking away. e.g. "It's time for a bath, I'm going to go get a nice warm towel, and then I'll come get you to go upstairs". And then, before she has a chance to respond at all, walk away for a moment. Giving her that space might let her be a little more thoughtful about her response.

2) Fantasy wish granting. Scoop her up in your arms, hold her close and say "Wouldn't it be great if we NEVER had to take baths? Maybe we could wish for a rainstorm that came with soap! Or we could go to the carwash instead -- wouldn't that be fun!" Then tickler her all over like the carwash and then swish her upstairs. This is one of those strategies that never failed to work for me.

3) At a separate time, but close enough to one of these incidents that she remembers, talk to her about it, and problem solve through it. Say "sometimes I need to ask you to do something that isn't a choice, like taking a bath or getting in your carseat to go somewhere. When you cry and tell me no, it doesn't change the fact that we have to do something, it just makes both of us sad and mad. I don't like it, and I don't think you like it. So, what can we do?" You might be surprised at her ability to problem solve, or to accept a solution that you give her (e.g. a secret code word to let her know that something isn't a choice, a star you write on a white board to celebrate that she made a big girl choice or whatever).

4) Is the issue that she doesn't want to take a bath or that she doesn't want to stop what she's doing. If it's the latter, then think about doing something really reinforcing (e.g a little ritual) after she stops and before she starts the new thing. So, for example, call her over and play "This is the way the lady rides" on your knees (am I the only one whose parents played this game, and played it with my kid a lot too) for a moment and then let her know it's bath time. By that point she's transitioned away from her activity and built some connection to you and the news of the bath might be better received.

Good luck!
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
I completely agree with not asking about things that are not negotiable and I do sometimes make the mistake in doing so. However our biggest issue comes when I say "Please come here, it is time to take a bath" and she says "NO" and I have to keep repeating myself and she still does not come and ultimately I end up having to go get her. So I guess I'm wondering how do I get her to come to me and what do I do when she won't? I love your idea of giving her time limits as it is a great reminder to me......that is usually exactly what she needs before a transition.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
Wow. You could be talking about my son. I know it's developmentally appropriate, but, wow, does it get old hearing no all the time. I'm sure my theories aren't new, but I absolutely pick my battles. ( How important is the bath today?) And, I don't ask about things that are non-negotiable and I instead give choices that are negotiable. We're going to go take a bath. Do you want bubbles today? Which toy would you like to play with? If I'm still getting the no, I give him as much time as possible to get used to the idea. We ARE going up to bath in 10 minutes. Would you like to play trains for now or trucks? We're going up to bath in 5 minutes. Would you like a snack right now? 2 minute warning... 1 minute warning But sometimes, it just has to be I'm carrrying you screaming to the goal. It sucks. Usually, if we get to that point, which actually is rather rare, I try to forever distract with games, silly faces, raspberries on the belly, etc. "Oh wow! AJ did you know you could fly? Wow, look at you go! You're flying!!!" "Oh, I hope some big guy doesn't blow raspberries on my tummy!"

P.S. I don't ask over and over again. IMO some things are negotiable (many, many things), but some things are not. So, I figure once I've said it's non-negotiable, I'll never ask again. I figure this will change as he gets older.
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
1)I would say this is not an impulse control thing as she first says "I don't want to take a shower" a couple of times and runs away. Then I say "Come here" and she says "No." So her first response is not always "NO."
2)Being a little more playful does work sometimes as I tell her we are going to play with loofah and loofah talks to her etc. However this is usually once the battle is over and harder to implement when she is adamant that she doesn't want to take a bath and she isn't really interested in reasoning.
3)I like this idea. Though my daughter is advanced I'm not sure if she is quite developmentally ready for this(2 years,2 months old), but it is worth a try. The only reason I would think she is not ready is that she would understand the conversation during, but I'm not sure if that would actually help her when she is in the moment later.
4)The issue is that she doesn't want to take a shower. Once it has started she is fine, but in the moment when it is mentioned she is usually ready to argue about it. Though I do think a little game after mentioning it and before doing it might actually help.








Quote:
Originally Posted by Momily View Post
I'm way past that point of parenting (DS is 10) but here are a few thoughts. I should note that some of these are strategies that probably would have worked better for me at 3 than at 2, because I don't have a particularly verbal child. However, given that it sounds like you do have a verbal child they might work well for you now.

1) Is this an impulse control thing (your use of the word "automatic" makes me think it probably is) -- her initial response is no, and then she digs in her heels and can't change. If so, then I'd consider telling her and then walking away. e.g. "It's time for a bath, I'm going to go get a nice warm towel, and then I'll come get you to go upstairs". And then, before she has a chance to respond at all, walk away for a moment. Giving her that space might let her be a little more thoughtful about her response.

2) Fantasy wish granting. Scoop her up in your arms, hold her close and say "Wouldn't it be great if we NEVER had to take baths? Maybe we could wish for a rainstorm that came with soap! Or we could go to the carwash instead -- wouldn't that be fun!" Then tickler her all over like the carwash and then swish her upstairs. This is one of those strategies that never failed to work for me.

3) At a separate time, but close enough to one of these incidents that she remembers, talk to her about it, and problem solve through it. Say "sometimes I need to ask you to do something that isn't a choice, like taking a bath or getting in your carseat to go somewhere. When you cry and tell me no, it doesn't change the fact that we have to do something, it just makes both of us sad and mad. I don't like it, and I don't think you like it. So, what can we do?" You might be surprised at her ability to problem solve, or to accept a solution that you give her (e.g. a secret code word to let her know that something isn't a choice, a star you write on a white board to celebrate that she made a big girl choice or whatever).

4) Is the issue that she doesn't want to take a bath or that she doesn't want to stop what she's doing. If it's the latter, then think about doing something really reinforcing (e.g a little ritual) after she stops and before she starts the new thing. So, for example, call her over and play "This is the way the lady rides" on your knees (am I the only one whose parents played this game, and played it with my kid a lot too) for a moment and then let her know it's bath time. By that point she's transitioned away from her activity and built some connection to you and the news of the bath might be better received.

Good luck!
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
I should mention that the things she most likely says "No" to are: coming over to me when asked(usually she doesn't want to do what I want her to and that is why she refuses(ex:take a bath)) and picking up after herself when she deliberately makes a mess or helping pick up toys. These are two things that are non-negotiable for me, but how do I get her to do either of these things without physically forcing her or threatening, etc.?
post #7 of 11
Ok, my daughter is a little younger than yours (19 months), but she is VERY much in the "no!" stage, so I have several suggestions.

First, have you read _The Happiest Toddler on the Block_? I LOVED that book. The way it's written is a little cheesy at times, but the basic idea is brilliant. He says to acknowledge a child's feelings before you redirect or insist or whatever you're trying to do. That's the main thing. So when DD says no, I echo her: "No! No bath! You don't want a bath! Bad bath!" Once she calms down, then I say, "But it's time for a bath! You don't want dirt all over you all night!" And so on. I do fantasy wish-granting a lot too--don't you wish you could NEVER bathe? Wouldn't it be fun to be covered in dirt ALL THE TIME?! LOL.

Second, read _Your Two Year Old_. Part of a series, and I actually haven't read the book, just heard a great presentation on it, but the main idea I heard from it is that two year olds are automatically oppositional, not because they're defiant or anything like that, but because they're defining themselves as a person separate from you. They're just starting to realize that there are two things in the world: Me and You. So they think of everything in terms of two opposites, and any time you mention anything, they immediately want the opposite. It's a normal part of their development. So choices are great for three year olds, but bad for two year olds--two year olds can't decide between two opposites. If you say bath, they'll think toy. If you say red shoes, they'll think blue shoes. If you say bubbles or no bubbles, they'll be completely torn and maybe have a tantrum!

So for us, if it's something non-negotiable, I do NOT offer choices. Most of the time, I don't ask her or even tell her what we're doing. Our big thing right now is potty--we EC, so she's totally used to the potty, but lately every time I ask if she needs to go, she screams and runs away. So I don't ask. I just say, "Come here, baby, come with mama," and I pick her up. (She still loves to be carried so she's almost always happy for me to pick her up.) Then I take her to the bathroom. Usually once we're there she's perfectly happy to sit on the potty and pee. If she sees the bathroom and starts yelling "No!", then I ask her to help me pee, or I ask her to pee her doll, or I ask if she wants to read a book on the potty, or (last-ditch effort!) I ask if she wants to play with my iPhone and sit on the potty. (That always gets a yes! ) But I never say, "Come here, it's time to go potty," because that is just setting her up with an opportunity to say no, which is what two year olds are always looking for!

As far as running away from you, my mom gave me a great idea for that one: play chase Mommy as a game. Obviously, do this for fun, at a time when you're NOT trying to get her to the bath. "Bet you can't catch Mommy! I'm going to run away! You can't catch me!" Teach her to do that for fun, and then you can use it in places when you really need her to come to you (I use it at the playground when she tries to run away from me because she doesn't want to leave).

But if I were you, I would really try to avoid telling her to do things that she might not want to do (except as a game), because then you're setting her up with a chance to say no to you, which two year olds want (and actually need!). But you can counteract that by telling her to do things that you know she WILL want to do, which will give her practice in doing what you say to do. Like telling her to make animal sounds, or telling her to jump up and down, or whatever trick she enjoys, or telling her to shout "Whee!" really loud when she's on the swing. I also tell my DD to scream really loud when she's starting a tantrum (if we're at home or somewhere it won't bother other people). Her tantrums always start with an ear-splitting SHRIEK, and I always tell her to scream louder. Which, of course, always makes her stop screaming. I really do mean it, though--I'm trying to encourage her to get her anger out, not using reverse psychology!

Oh--as far as picking up, I would just do it myself and encourage her to help me. "Time to pick up! Come on, let's pick up all the toys! Do you want to throw this toy in this box?" You might end up doing all the work sometimes, but she'll eventually learn to help you--it's not that big a deal if you're just modeling it at first. If it's really important to you that she "help," then I would get a specific toy and have it dance around and beg her to put it away. Make the toy say, "Please, I'm so tired, will you put me away in my box, please, I need to rest, I want to go to my box, please will you put me there...?" Etc. That way at least she'll put *one* toy away.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
I like the idea of practicing chasing mommy as that might work when I need her to come to me
I also like the idea of making the toys ask to be picked up as I can see her reacting positively to that.........by the way the reason it is important for her to clean up is that we are often with other kids in my sisters home childcare and Aliyah seems to think she can help make the mess but be the only child not cleaning it up, and I just do not think that is fair.
I have not read either of those books, but I am in the middle of some others and will add those to the list. Thanks for the suggestions!






Quote:
Originally Posted by lisavark View Post
Ok, my daughter is a little younger than yours (19 months), but she is VERY much in the "no!" stage, so I have several suggestions.

First, have you read _The Happiest Toddler on the Block_? I LOVED that book. The way it's written is a little cheesy at times, but the basic idea is brilliant. He says to acknowledge a child's feelings before you redirect or insist or whatever you're trying to do. That's the main thing. So when DD says no, I echo her: "No! No bath! You don't want a bath! Bad bath!" Once she calms down, then I say, "But it's time for a bath! You don't want dirt all over you all night!" And so on. I do fantasy wish-granting a lot too--don't you wish you could NEVER bathe? Wouldn't it be fun to be covered in dirt ALL THE TIME?! LOL.

Second, read _Your Two Year Old_. Part of a series, and I actually haven't read the book, just heard a great presentation on it, but the main idea I heard from it is that two year olds are automatically oppositional, not because they're defiant or anything like that, but because they're defining themselves as a person separate from you. They're just starting to realize that there are two things in the world: Me and You. So they think of everything in terms of two opposites, and any time you mention anything, they immediately want the opposite. It's a normal part of their development. So choices are great for three year olds, but bad for two year olds--two year olds can't decide between two opposites. If you say bath, they'll think toy. If you say red shoes, they'll think blue shoes. If you say bubbles or no bubbles, they'll be completely torn and maybe have a tantrum!

So for us, if it's something non-negotiable, I do NOT offer choices. Most of the time, I don't ask her or even tell her what we're doing. Our big thing right now is potty--we EC, so she's totally used to the potty, but lately every time I ask if she needs to go, she screams and runs away. So I don't ask. I just say, "Come here, baby, come with mama," and I pick her up. (She still loves to be carried so she's almost always happy for me to pick her up.) Then I take her to the bathroom. Usually once we're there she's perfectly happy to sit on the potty and pee. If she sees the bathroom and starts yelling "No!", then I ask her to help me pee, or I ask her to pee her doll, or I ask if she wants to read a book on the potty, or (last-ditch effort!) I ask if she wants to play with my iPhone and sit on the potty. (That always gets a yes! ) But I never say, "Come here, it's time to go potty," because that is just setting her up with an opportunity to say no, which is what two year olds are always looking for!

As far as running away from you, my mom gave me a great idea for that one: play chase Mommy as a game. Obviously, do this for fun, at a time when you're NOT trying to get her to the bath. "Bet you can't catch Mommy! I'm going to run away! You can't catch me!" Teach her to do that for fun, and then you can use it in places when you really need her to come to you (I use it at the playground when she tries to run away from me because she doesn't want to leave).

But if I were you, I would really try to avoid telling her to do things that she might not want to do (except as a game), because then you're setting her up with a chance to say no to you, which two year olds want (and actually need!). But you can counteract that by telling her to do things that you know she WILL want to do, which will give her practice in doing what you say to do. Like telling her to make animal sounds, or telling her to jump up and down, or whatever trick she enjoys, or telling her to shout "Whee!" really loud when she's on the swing. I also tell my DD to scream really loud when she's starting a tantrum (if we're at home or somewhere it won't bother other people). Her tantrums always start with an ear-splitting SHRIEK, and I always tell her to scream louder. Which, of course, always makes her stop screaming. I really do mean it, though--I'm trying to encourage her to get her anger out, not using reverse psychology!

Oh--as far as picking up, I would just do it myself and encourage her to help me. "Time to pick up! Come on, let's pick up all the toys! Do you want to throw this toy in this box?" You might end up doing all the work sometimes, but she'll eventually learn to help you--it's not that big a deal if you're just modeling it at first. If it's really important to you that she "help," then I would get a specific toy and have it dance around and beg her to put it away. Make the toy say, "Please, I'm so tired, will you put me away in my box, please, I need to rest, I want to go to my box, please will you put me there...?" Etc. That way at least she'll put *one* toy away.
post #9 of 11
lisavark--I am going to print out your post and tatoo it somewhere on my body so I can refer to it constantly.

We are just now hitting the point where DD can't be transitioned away from something. The 'bye bye' song doesn't work anymore. So I need some new tricks.

One of our battles is DD is obsessed with brushing her teeth and doesn't want to stop. So aside from trying to keep her moving toward something else interesting (here's your floss, let's go get a banana etc...) I think I'm just going to hook her up in the bathroom, move the recliner so I can relax but still keep an eye on her and let her brush her teeth until she's sick of it.

But yes, the key is not to ask any questions because those will always be met with 'no' and to make the next activity a 'bright shiny object' so they are too busy going 'oooooo' to remember they're supposed to be screaming no.

V
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momily View Post
I'm way past that point of parenting (DS is 10) but here are a few thoughts. I should note that some of these are strategies that probably would have worked better for me at 3 than at 2, because I don't have a particularly verbal child. However, given that it sounds like you do have a verbal child they might work well for you now.

1) Is this an impulse control thing (your use of the word "automatic" makes me think it probably is) -- her initial response is no, and then she digs in her heels and can't change. If so, then I'd consider telling her and then walking away. e.g. "It's time for a bath, I'm going to go get a nice warm towel, and then I'll come get you to go upstairs". And then, before she has a chance to respond at all, walk away for a moment. Giving her that space might let her be a little more thoughtful about her response.

2) Fantasy wish granting. Scoop her up in your arms, hold her close and say "Wouldn't it be great if we NEVER had to take baths? Maybe we could wish for a rainstorm that came with soap! Or we could go to the carwash instead -- wouldn't that be fun!" Then tickler her all over like the carwash and then swish her upstairs. This is one of those strategies that never failed to work for me.

3) At a separate time, but close enough to one of these incidents that she remembers, talk to her about it, and problem solve through it. Say "sometimes I need to ask you to do something that isn't a choice, like taking a bath or getting in your carseat to go somewhere. When you cry and tell me no, it doesn't change the fact that we have to do something, it just makes both of us sad and mad. I don't like it, and I don't think you like it. So, what can we do?" You might be surprised at her ability to problem solve, or to accept a solution that you give her (e.g. a secret code word to let her know that something isn't a choice, a star you write on a white board to celebrate that she made a big girl choice or whatever).

4) Is the issue that she doesn't want to take a bath or that she doesn't want to stop what she's doing. If it's the latter, then think about doing something really reinforcing (e.g a little ritual) after she stops and before she starts the new thing. So, for example, call her over and play "This is the way the lady rides" on your knees (am I the only one whose parents played this game, and played it with my kid a lot too) for a moment and then let her know it's bath time. By that point she's transitioned away from her activity and built some connection to you and the news of the bath might be better received.

Good luck!
Wow, brilliant advice. I'm going to hang it up on the refrigerator!

I find setting a timer works very well, it seems to make it less of a battle of wills. I say something like, Yes, you do need to take a bath, so we'll set the timer for five minutes and when it goes off, we'll head up to the bath. Sometimes I ask how long she needs me to set the timer for so she can get (mentally) ready.
post #11 of 11
We've been having the bath battle lately, and this is what we've finally found that works. My husband showed me the trick, but I'm the one who does it most nights so now I claim it as mine:

I tell her it's time for bath (she says "no bath!") and then I go directly to the bathroom and run the bath. Then I sit beside the bath and happily read my book until she gets all her after dinner kicks out. She can't stand to see me relaxing , so she eventually comes in. It gives her the little bit of control that she needs, and it gives me a little down time. We have a very small house, so I can keep tabs on her easily.

I've found that with most things we battle over -- like this and the whole putting on pjs after bath -- I can get done what I need to do if I just wait her out. By not chasing her, we both get to be in control. When we're in a hurry, it's a whole different story.
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