Is there anywhere where you cannot legally breastfeed? - Page 2

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

Really? That's awesome! Is there anywhere that has an age limit on access (even if child is with a parent)?

The thing with the baby in a bar or in an r rated movie or whatever is that a babe in arms is not going to be adversely affected by drunks or graphic movies or whatever the argument.

Originally Posted by vegasgrl

You can actually discriminate against people for any reason other than the protected classes: race, gender, sometimes age, etc. Maybe there's been a successful constitutional argument that dicriminating against BFing mothers is tantamount to gender discrimination? I'm new here.

In Canada, breastfeeding is protected by the sex discrimination part of the human rights code,

[crazyrunningmama]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Babies are allowed in court and in bars in Canada, and it is only dependent on where the mother is allowed to be in Canada.

Not necessarily true. If you're not of age (19 in BC for example) you can be asked to leave, period. I have seen bar staff tell parents to take their babies out of pubs, so when they are allowed, it's not because it's the law, it's because bar staff are being reasonable about it.

[the_lissa]

I wonder if it varies by province because when I worked in a bar, we were told babies in arms were not an issue.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Babies are allowed in court and in bars in Canada, and it is only dependent on where the mother is allowed to be in Canada.

In Nova Scotia and in Manitoba, underage patrons are not allowed in bars after 8 pm. You also can't be served only alcohol if you are accompanied by a minor. You have to purchase food as well.

I can't think of a place in terms of legality, but I don't think babies should be nursed in surgical waiting rooms. I don't think it's fair for babies who would love to nurse to watch other babies contentedly nursing while they are hungry, but awaiting surgery.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

I wonder if it varies by province because when I worked in a bar, we were told babies in arms were not an issue.

I was told my dh had to order food with his beer if I wanted to stay sitting with him while my 6 week old baby slept in my arms (I wasn't having anything). It was ridiculous, but the liquor inspector had just been by and they'd been dinged for this.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by vegasgrl

You can actually discriminate against people for any reason other than the protected classes: race, gender, sometimes age, etc. Maybe there's been a successful constitutional argument that dicriminating against BFing mothers is tantamount to gender discrimination? I'm new here.

I am not a lawyer either, but most state breastfeeding laws state something to the effect of "a mother may breastfeed her baby anywhere she otherwise has the right to be." While race, gender, ethnicity, religion, disability, and age are always protected under the Civil Rights act and various other laws, breastfeeding laws specifically prohibit discriminating based solely on the fact of a mother's breastfeeding. Anywhere a mother "otherwise has the right to be" means that a company open to the public or their representative cannot require a mother to cover up, move, or leave if the only reason is her breastfeeding. If she is flicking boogers at other customers, or if she is sampling the doughnuts without paying for them, or if she is shouting obscenities, as well as breastfeeding, then the company can require that she leave. They would do well to clarify that those other behaviors are unacceptable in their store when they require her to leave. But simply breastfeeding is not an acceptable reason to discriminate, according to state laws protecting breastfeeding, where they are in effect. I am sure this map has been linked here too many times to count, but it shows which states protect breastfeeding and to what degree.

All that said, there are very few states where an enforcement provision is in effect for the breastfeeding laws. An enforcement provision basically describes the consequences if a person breaks a specific law. So while many states have protective breastfeeding laws, there is no teeth behind the law. The law describes the "rule" (you can't discriminate against a breastfeeding woman soley on the basis of her breastfeeding), but doesn't provide any punishment for breaking the law. And sadly for many people, just knowing what is right doesn't automatically mean they will do what is right, especially without negative consequences for choosing to break the law.

[smeep]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Babies are allowed in court and in bars in Canada, and it is only dependent on where the mother is allowed to be in Canada.

When DS was 14 months old we went on a trip with my best friend to Los Angeles and the first night I nursed while sitting at the hotel bar (it was a bar/restaurant but we nursed at the actual bar) and having a drink (the one and only). The next night the bartender (a different one) didn't want me sitting at the bar with him (we hadn't nursed yet) so I moved to the table literally 3 feet over. No one ever cared about us nursing (and if anyone did they never said a word), just the one bartender whose concern was a baby at a bar. Not sure what the law in California is regarding children in bar slash restaurants, but she was the only one who cared. The second one wasn't there any other nights we were. We have a cute picture of him all sleepy and milk drunk with a big neon beer brand sign behind him just for kicks. He totally looked drunk.

[Latte Mama]

Originally Posted by Pirogi

So while many states have protective breastfeeding laws, there is no teeth behind the law. The law describes the "rule" (you can't discriminate against a breastfeeding woman soley on the basis of her breastfeeding), but doesn't provide any punishment for breaking the law. And sadly for many people, just knowing what is right doesn't automatically mean they will do what is right, especially without negative consequences for choosing to break the law.

I agree and this needs to change. I'm in NY and our law falls under civil rights laws. I guess the positive thing there is that even though there is no punishment, one could sue for violating civil rights .

[Phoenix~Mama]

Babies aren't allowed in court rooms?

I BF my DD in a court room in May, so she was about 4 months old at the time... I was in the front row, surrounded by lawyers, and other law people, and in clear view of the judge and no one never said anything to me about it.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by vegasgrl

You can actually discriminate against people for any reason other than the protected classes: race, gender, sometimes age, etc. Maybe there's been a successful constitutional argument that dicriminating against BFing mothers is tantamount to gender discrimination? I'm new here.

You are right, as is your original analysis about invitees and conversion to trespasser. In a few states the public breastfeeding law is part of the state civil rights act thus creating a protected class. However in most states property rights trump the breastfeeding law.

As to the OPs question, I don't know of any space in which law explicitly prohibits breastfeeding (even prison visiting rooms and places of worship) however the lack of legal protection in most spaces makes it possible for a breastfeeding woman to be asked to leave. This is a matter of individual state law in most space. In federal buildings a federal statute states a right to breastfeed however it has no enforcement mechanism so I know of at least one woman who was asked to stop. She didn't and nothing was done to her (or could be done to her) but she also had no resource to take action about the harassment.

[Megan73]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

I would think that it wouldn't be legal for a baby to breastfeed somewhere that the baby wasn't legally allowed to be (even if the mother was) - for example in court or in a bar.

Other than that - Anytime, Anywhere!

(I'm in Canada.)

I'm in Canada and work in the court system. I've seen babies in court – I've even seen a woman being sentenced with her sleeping baby by her side! – and never seen them asked to leave, although I'd imagine the constable might ask someone with a wailing baby to wait in the hall.
In Ontario, women are allowed to breastfeed any place they can legally be.
So I think breastfeeding in court would be fine

[Ruthla]

There are also places where the baby is allowed to be but the mom might not be- a men's room, and possibly certain rooms in a childcare facility or school. But there are proabably more places that are open to women but not infants than the other way around.

I know that in NYS it's "anywhere mother and child are legally allowed to be" and I'm pretty sure it was the same in MD where I lived when the girls were little.

There are certainly places where I wouldn't be comfortable breastfeeding even if it was legal to do so. I wouldn't want to BF in family court while testifying (DS was in the childcare room down the hall at the time, and I nursed him after the court session ended.)

I'm not even sure if DS was allowed in that courtroom at that time anyway- certainly there were kids in the court building, but I think it may have been up to the individual judges whether or not to allow a child in the court at any given time. And, yes, it's illegal to not do what the judge wants in the courtroom- it's called "contempt of court" and you can go to jail for that.

[stealthmode]

Originally Posted by smeep

When DS was 14 months old we went on a trip with my best friend to Los Angeles and the first night I nursed while sitting at the hotel bar (it was a bar/restaurant but we nursed at the actual bar) and having a drink (the one and only). The next night the bartender (a different one) didn't want me sitting at the bar with him (we hadn't nursed yet) so I moved to the table literally 3 feet over. No one ever cared about us nursing (and if anyone did they never said a word), just the one bartender whose concern was a baby at a bar. Not sure what the law in California is regarding children in bar slash restaurants, but she was the only one who cared. The second one wasn't there any other nights we were. We have a cute picture of him all sleepy and milk drunk with a big neon beer brand sign behind him just for kicks. He totally looked drunk.

This doesn't surprise me at all; when I was bartending in the state of Indiana (in a restaurant) there were very strict laws about where minors could be in relation to the bar. I don't know of any specific instances involving infants or breastfeeding, but I do know that kids in general couldn't be within a certain distance of the liquor serving area. In fact we had a patio out back that was lovely to sit on, but nobody under the age of 21 was allowed back there because you had to pass the bar in close proximity to reach the back door.

[white_queen_22]

Originally Posted by lovelymama2

I know that breastfeeding is protected by law ... but in privately owned places like, for example, Target, is it considered private property and therefore if they ask you to go to the bathrooms or something, you have to listen? Or is breastfeeding pretty much something you can do anywhere you want--whether or not you're in a store?

I'm just asking because it really surprises me that there are still issues with breastfeeding. I was just talking with someone who was asked to move into a changing room in Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart has a national policy for ALL their stores that employees are not to approach a nursing mother and ask her to do ANYTHING. AT ALL.

My husband is a manager with Wal-Mart and familiar with the law because we specfically looked it up after the birth of our first born 5 years ago. You can plunk your butt down any ole place, walk and nurse, or whatever. They are not allowed to talk to you.

If you ever get appraoched in Wal-Mart by an associate just tell them - "Wal-Mart policy says I can nurse in any store in the nation. I suggest you speak to your manager before you violate store policy again." :-)

Angela <><

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

mens room?

Are you and the baby legally allowed in the room in question?

[mamajake]

Slightly OT but since folks are mentioning it: by and large state laws do not prohibit females in mens restrooms or men in womens restrooms. I wouldn't want to nurse in any bathroom but I found this interesting as a mother to sons who needs this cross-bathroom privilege.

[vulturemom]

I would think that it would be illigal to breastfeed in a bar or strip club because the baby (who I am assuming is under 21) doesn't have a right to be there.

Other then that I can think of anyplace. Maybe while bungie cord jumping should illagal too.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by vulturemom

Other then that I can think of anyplace. Maybe while bungie cord jumping should illagal too.

Legal, but you'd have to have your own equipment since no place is going to let you bungee with a baby.