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Baby bucket car seats toddering on the top of shopping carts - Page 6

post #101 of 138
A big YEAH THAT to Sancta & TheGirls - the ONLY times I've ever seen shoppomg carts tip/flip were in college using stolen carts in jackass-rip off stunts (IE: We were TRYING to make them flip!!). If you think this is so totally dangerous that it makes you sick whenever anyone does it, fine. But that doesn't make it horribly life-threateningly dangerous. All the statics on 'shopping cart injuries' make no distinction between my toddler falling off the front, or having his foot run over or his big brother jumping out and twisting his ankle or the seat falling off, or the cart ACTUALLY flipping. I'm sure it happens occasionally, but I can't honestly believe that having baby in the frigging basket (and thus making shopping utterly impossible) or hauling a wagon or a stroller along all that much safer. And yeah, I could babywear him but you know what? THATS not totally safe either - what if *I* trip over that random bump in the parking lot and fall on him? What if my wrap/mei tei comes untied randomly and he falls? Or the beco/ergo comes unbuckled and he falls? NOTHING is completely 100% fool-proof safe in this world, NOTHING. So freaking out over something that YOU personally find to be 'unsafe' but which millions of others do not isn't going to make you any friends - not online and certainly not IRL. Buckets ontop of shopping carts happens millions of times every day... and how many kids have actually died or been seriously injured because of it? Anyone have stats? Probably not (but I'd *LOVE* to see them if they do exist). Because the numbers are so incredibly small as to be irrelevant.

Just for refernces sake heres a warning on using slings! So, should we ban all sling carriers?? CPSC thinks there unsafe! OMG!! :roll
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/saf...-carriers.html
post #102 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post
An injury due to this too is so easy to avoid. Is it difficult to use a baby carrier? I actually found it easier. Is it too hard to put the car seat inside the basket of the cart? No, and it's so much safer.

A no-brainer!

.
For some people yes! I tried to use a carrier with my 3rd daughter.. she HATED it by 3 months. She spent the whole time SCREAMING in it. With my son I used a sling and he too hated it by three months.. I got an ergo and that worked until about 6 - 8 months, then he hated it as well.

Some parents/babies can't tolerate carriers for whatever reason. And unless you came to the store to pick up a few things, putting the baby in the basket isn't going to work, cause then, where are you going to put your groceries?

MOST people don't have the luxury of bringing another adult to the store with them to push the stroller or pull a wagon. Most people don't have the luxury of being able to hire a babysitter to watch their kids while they go grocery shopping. And the recommendation that parents shop at stores that have play places.. well that is just DUMB cause they wont take kids til they are two and it therefor has NO BARING on infant seats.

The AAP does not live in reality, and neither do their recommendations.
post #103 of 138
Quote:
And unless you came to the store to pick up a few things, putting the baby in the basket isn't going to work, cause then, where are you going to put your groceries?
If you just need a few things, they will totally fit in there with baby.

I have done weekly shopping with my child sleeping in a carseat IN the basket. A lot of stuff goes on the rack below and in the front cart. I have also done weekly shopping while balancing grocery bags (the reusable kind) on the back of a stroller, bringing them up to the front, and leaving them there, then going back for more. Yes, I have done that.

It's totally possible in reality. The AAP is comprised of working parents who have kids and who make sacrifices to be on that board.
post #104 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
If you just need a few things, they will totally fit in there with baby.

I have done weekly shopping with my child sleeping in a carseat IN the basket. A lot of stuff goes on the rack below and in the front cart. I have also done weekly shopping while balancing grocery bags (the reusable kind) on the back of a stroller, bringing them up to the front, and leaving them there, then going back for more. Yes, I have done that.

It's totally possible in reality. The AAP is comprised of working parents who have kids and who make sacrifices to be on that board.

How many kids do you have? Because I couldn't do weekly shopping this way. We have a family of 6. I also do bi-weekly shopping becuase that is pay day.

And it is not reality.

The AAP is the American academy of pediatrics and they are not comprised of working parents but DOCTORS who want to tell you want to do.
Quote:
Welcome to the official Web site of the American Academy of Pediatrics — an organization of 60,000 pediatricians committed to the attainment of optimal physical, mental, and social health and well-being for all infants, children, adolescents, and young adults. Whether you're looking for general information related to child health or for more specific guidelines concerning a pediatric issue, you've come to the right place. Here, you'll find information regarding the Academy's many programs and activities'our policies and guidelines'our publications and other child health resources'and much, much more. Best of all, you can rest assured that the information comes from the nation's leading child health experts and that we have scientific research supporting our recommendations.
http://www.aap.org/about.html

This does NOT come from working parents making sacrifices to be on the board.
post #105 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I have also done weekly shopping while balancing grocery bags (the reusable kind) on the back of a stroller, bringing them up to the front, and leaving them there, then going back for more. Yes, I have done that.
Wow! I mean kudos to you for sticking to your guns. But wow, I do not know a single person who would go this far.

Since this thread has started I've chatted with everyone I know about it & not one person has felt it is unsafe to use the carts this way.

And really, my days are complicated enough as it is. I HATE grocery shopping more than most & would not be doing anything to make the task anymore difficult/complicated/demanding than it has to be.

BTW - I never owned a bucket seat & always wore ds until he could sit happily in the cart (although I still keep the sling handy in case he starts getting grumpy). But I have never felt anyone else was negligent for using their bucket seats in this manner.
post #106 of 138
Well, I certainly wouldn't say that people are negligent! I'm just saying, when you know the risks, it's hardly wise to put the baby up there. Not that people are somehow negligent.

Quote:
The AAP is the American academy of pediatrics and they are not comprised of working parents but DOCTORS who want to tell you want to do.
Soooo... are doctors not parents, or do you not count practicing medicine (meeting with clients 12 hrs a day, six or even seven days a week) not work?

I have two kids. Honestly, though, if you are taking six kids shopping (and I've never met a family that does this, though I know several with more than four children), are you really able to stay with your card, with no other children in it??? I mean so consistently that you know the cart is never going to get knocked into?

It is just NOT that complicated to say, "I'm not going to balance my infant four feet above ground." It is not. There are so, so, so many options, even if your kid doesn't want to be worn. I mean you could easily say, "With six kids we could never fit that many boosters in the car." But you don't. It's not a negotiable. It's a PITA, but you find a way. You find a way to have your kids with you in the parking lot. You find a way to get your kids non-chokeable food. You can find a way to keep your kid less than three feet off the ground.

And it's easy to stick to your guns when you personally know someone touched by an injury caused by failure to observe safety guidelines. Every time my kid jumps on the back of the cart, I literally see her little future flash before my eyes.
post #107 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
If you just need a few things, they will totally fit in there with baby.
Yeah, but a lot of us shop when we need more than just a few things.

Quote:
I have done weekly shopping with my child sleeping in a carseat IN the basket. A lot of stuff goes on the rack below and in the front cart.
Unless you have a SafeSeat1 like I do. In the cart I use, there is barely room for anything else in the basket. The SS1 eats up all the space.

Quote:
I have also done weekly shopping while balancing grocery bags (the reusable kind) on the back of a stroller, bringing them up to the front, and leaving them there, then going back for more. Yes, I have done that.
I'm glad you can do it. That is something I'll never do. That, to me, is a total waste of my time and energy, and prolongs a trip my kids easily become annoyed during. They hate shopping.

Quote:
It's totally possible in reality.
Not possible in my reality.

Our carts used to have hooks on the side which I used for hanging my bags. Now the carts are hookless. So my only option is the basket. I've tried putting groceries on the bottom part of the cart but they always ALWAYS roll or fall off, then I spend all my time chasing after them.

I often shop with all 4 children, by myself.

Quote:
Honestly, though, if you are taking six kids shopping (and I've never met a family that does this, though I know several with more than four children), are you really able to stay with your card, with no other children in it??? I mean so consistently that you know the cart is never going to get knocked into?
Yep. My children behave very well while shopping. I never need to go running off after any of them, and they are 5 and under.

Quote:
There are so, so, so many options, even if your kid doesn't want to be worn.
But no, there really aren't that many options. Even if I did bring a stroller to the store, how on earth am I supposed to push a stroller AND a cart AND watch my kids? (For the record, the only flip-over I've ever had with any of my kids was while they were in strollers.)

Quote:
I mean you could easily say, "With six kids we could never fit that many boosters in the car." But you don't. It's not a negotiable. It's a PITA, but you find a way. You find a way to have your kids with you in the parking lot. You find a way to get your kids non-chokeable food. You can find a way to keep your kid less than three feet off the ground.
You aren't understanding that the risk of putting infants in carriers in carts IS NOT equal to traveling without carseats. For some of us, we don't find the need to "find another way" because the method we're using isn't a problem.

Quote:
Every time my kid jumps on the back of the cart, I literally see her little future flash before my eyes.
You'd probably flip to see me sometimes, then - baby in the cart, kid in the basket, kids hanging on the sides of the basket. Not once has my cart even come close to tipping. Not once have I ever been run into. (I did, however, smack my kid's head into a wall once when back-carrying.)
post #108 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Well, I certainly wouldn't say that people are negligent! I'm just saying, when you know the risks, it's hardly wise to put the baby up there. Not that people are somehow negligent.
Ah, but there's the rub. We don't know the risk. No one here has managed to prove (or even suggest using relevant data) that putting infants in a bucket seat on the cart is more dangerous than the alternatives.

I am far more fearful for my child's life when driving to the grocery store than while in it. Auto accidents are the #1 killer of children in the US. I have no earthly clue how many children are seriously injured or killed by riding in an infant carrier on a stroller, but I'd bet it's not very many.
post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Soooo... are doctors not parents, or do you not count practicing medicine (meeting with clients 12 hrs a day, six or even seven days a week) not work?
The way you phrased it, you made it sound like that AAP was an organization of volunteer parents who make sacrifices to be on the board. NOT a bunch of doctors who probably have a nanny to help out with their kids in the first place, and if not a nanny they probably have a wife at home taking care of them. I don't see a sacrifice at all. It's just more opportunity for them to try to boss people around. I have no trust for Peds. Period!

As for the rest of your nonessential post.. well that is what I find it to be, nonsense. Most people with six children do not need to find a way to fit six boosters in a car becuase the vast majority of them do not have six children in booster seats. I have four kids, and one in a booster and one in a car seat. So no need to fit six of them in a car. Furthermore anyone with six kids would need a car that fits 7-8 people and therefor COULD fit six booster seats in the car if the need should arise.

I also don't get your point of chasing children in the store leaving the cart with the baby in it and it getting crashed into? How would that be any different if the child were in a stroller and you left it to chase other children and it was crashed into? Your logic eludes me.

And last but not least, an infant is not BALANCING four feet off the ground in the cart. If the parent has a lick of sense, they have made sure the seat is securely attached on the cart and therefore it is not wobbling and balancing four feet off the ground.
post #110 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by anothermomlikeu View Post
I just wanted to let everyone know that I am a mom just like you that invented a product to make shopping easier for myself and my son. I really like to take my time shopping and I hated putting my son in the child seat provided because he was always so uncomfortable. Not to mention that it was hard to get his legs in and out of the leg holes without his shoes falling off and stuff.
What does this have to do with infant carriers? That's the subject at hand - not bigger kids in the child seat of the cart.

Quote:
I would love other mothers feedback on my product. I am just getting started and the website is not complete, but you will get a good idea of what it is. Thanks!
My only advice is if you are that concerned about shopping cart safety, then I hope you're also concerned about car safety. In the image gallery the boy (your son?) has his shoulder belt behind him. In a collision, the lapbelt would either cause him to submarine under the belt or cause terrible internal organ damage - likely both. He needs the shoulder portion as well. You should fix that.
post #111 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by anothermomlikeu View Post
I just wanted to let everyone know that I am a mom just like you that invented a product to make shopping easier for myself and my son. I really like to take my time shopping and I hated putting my son in the child seat provided because he was always so uncomfortable. Not to mention that it was hard to get his legs in and out of the leg holes without his shoes falling off and stuff. I used to put him in the basket but had to keep saying, "sit down" everytime he changed positions because he was uncomfortable. I decided to make a small seat that attaches to the inside of the basket with a seatbelt for keeping him seated. It worked great and is excellent for mothers with more than one child under the age of 5. He loves his Qubie and we take it everywhere. If you would like to see it please go to Kidqubie.com and check it out. I would love other mothers feedback on my product. I am just getting started and the website is not complete, but you will get a good idea of what it is. Thanks!
I can't imagien lugging something tha tbig everywhere.
post #112 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
The way you phrased it, you made it sound like that AAP was an organization of volunteer parents who make sacrifices to be on the board. NOT a bunch of doctors who probably have a nanny to help out with their kids in the first place, and if not a nanny they probably have a wife at home taking care of them. I don't see a sacrifice at all. It's just more opportunity for them to try to boss people around. I have no trust for Peds. Period!

As for the rest of your nonessential post.. well that is what I find it to be, nonsense. Most people with six children do not need to find a way to fit six boosters in a car becuase the vast majority of them do not have six children in booster seats. I have four kids, and one in a booster and one in a car seat. So no need to fit six of them in a car. Furthermore anyone with six kids would need a car that fits 7-8 people and therefor COULD fit six booster seats in the car if the need should arise.

I also don't get your point of chasing children in the store leaving the cart with the baby in it and it getting crashed into? How would that be any different if the child were in a stroller and you left it to chase other children and it was crashed into? Your logic eludes me.

And last but not least, an infant is not BALANCING four feet off the ground in the cart. If the parent has a lick of sense, they have made sure the seat is securely attached on the cart and therefore it is not wobbling and balancing four feet off the ground.
OT: but wow, Anit, that's kind of sexist dont you think? All of our doctors, with the exception of my daughters cardiologist are female. I supposed some of them may have a wife and home, but most of them don't.
post #113 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
OT: but wow, Anit, that's kind of sexist dont you think? All of our doctors, with the exception of my daughters cardiologist are female. I supposed some of them may have a wife and home, but most of them don't.
I have never run into a female pediatrician. I suppose some exist.. but in my experience I have never seen one. And no I don't think it is sexist.. I said EITHER a nanny OR a wife.
post #114 of 138
My daughter's pediatrician is a female, and actually, every pediatrician she has ever seen in her life has been female.
post #115 of 138
I feel like I have a middle position here. I think it is clearly less safe to put your child on top of the cart in an infant car seat than many other options (bucket in cart basket, baby carrier, stroller). However, the risk may or may not be great. It depends on the shopping cart and the car seat. I didn't put my bucket on top of the cart. It didn't fit right. It would only click at a very strange angle. I wore my kids or put the bucket in the main basket. (I never had trouble buying LOTS of groceries when the bucket was in the main basket but then again, I had a small bucket.)

So I don't worry about people putting their kids in the bucket on top of the cart generally. I don't think that is the inherent problem. However, I have been horrified when I see parents use the buckets precariously perched unsecurely or at strange angles. Or when the parent leaves the baby unattended. These are the things that scare me.

If someone asked my opinion on this I would say you should try to avoid doing it but if you do do it always keep a hand on the seat. (I wouldn't give someone unsolicited advice on this.)
post #116 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
The way you phrased it, you made it sound like that AAP was an organization of volunteer parents who make sacrifices to be on the board. NOT a bunch of doctors who probably have a nanny to help out with their kids in the first place, and if not a nanny they probably have a wife at home taking care of them. I don't see a sacrifice at all. It's just more opportunity for them to try to boss people around. I have no trust for Peds. Period!

As for the rest of your nonessential post.. well that is what I find it to be, nonsense. Most people with six children do not need to find a way to fit six boosters in a car becuase the vast majority of them do not have six children in booster seats. I have four kids, and one in a booster and one in a car seat. So no need to fit six of them in a car. Furthermore anyone with six kids would need a car that fits 7-8 people and therefor COULD fit six booster seats in the car if the need should arise.

I also don't get your point of chasing children in the store leaving the cart with the baby in it and it getting crashed into? How would that be any different if the child were in a stroller and you left it to chase other children and it was crashed into? Your logic eludes me.

And last but not least, an infant is not BALANCING four feet off the ground in the cart. If the parent has a lick of sense, they have made sure the seat is securely attached on the cart and therefore it is not wobbling and balancing four feet off the ground.
1. The doctors do volunteer their time to help others, and they often are parents. Taking the time to be a member of that organization requires a sacrifice of time. Sorry that you have chosen to distrust every member of an entire profession. I think doctors are people. I know four pediatricians personally, and none of them have or had nannies.

2. You might not be able to make sense of my post, but if a child has to be in a booster until s/he is 4'9", you could easily have six kids in boosters. In any case it was just an example! There are plenty of things that are harder with six kids, but that you do because you have to.

3. The shopping cart is always balancing on four wheels, and therefore, a child in a bucket on a shopping cart is always balancing.

4. And finally, it's safer to have a kid in a stroller when you walk away, than to walk away from a cart, because the kid is closer to the ground, and strollers are generally much more stable than shopping carts.

I don't know what you mean about my post not being essential. It's part of the discussion, and of course I don't have to keep going on and on, but then, none of us do. This whole message board is not essential, really.
post #117 of 138
Wow, lots of opinions here. Lets summarize the whole thing by saying it would be better not to put you child on top of the shopping cart.

Fact remains, going to and from the grocery store in your car is thousands of times more dangerous than keeping a baby in the shopping cart. Thousands of children die each year in car accidents in US, 550 kids drown each year, and 25 kids die from a falling televisions set. As far as I know it's extremely rare to have a child be seriously injured in a grocery store but please correct me if I'm wrong.

It all depends what we're comparing with when we call baby on shopping cart "dangerous".
post #118 of 138
I didn't say it wasn't essential, I said it was nonsensical, meaning, a lot of what you said was nonsense in my opinion. (and the booster law is 8 not 4'9")

Furthermore if something is on four wheels it is not balancing it is sitting. Now if it was on two wheels you would be balancing it but four wheels are not balancing. And last I checked, a stroller has four wheels as well, so does that mean it is balancing as well? Or a wagon?

As for peds, in my experience, they have demanded my children get vaccinated, or I go elsewhere. I have been told "I want that baby in her crib by your next visit!" Formula is just as good as breast milk. I have had them OD my child on morphine. I have been told that if tylonal doesn't bring down the fever just to give the child more until it does, if the dynatap doesn't make the child sleepy I am not giving her enough. Oh the list goes on but you get my gist. And this is at least four different peds I have heard this garbage from. Nope I don't trust peds. Their agenda does not match what I wish for my family.
post #119 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I didn't say it wasn't essential, I said it was nonsensical, meaning, a lot of what you said was nonsense in my opinion. (and the booster law is 8 not 4'9")

Furthermore if something is on four wheels it is not balancing it is sitting. Now if it was on two wheels you would be balancing it but four wheels are not balancing. And last I checked, a stroller has four wheels as well, so does that mean it is balancing as well? Or a wagon?

As for peds, in my experience, they have demanded my children get vaccinated, or I go elsewhere. I have been told "I want that baby in her crib by your next visit!" Formula is just as good as breast milk. I have had them OD my child on morphine. I have been told that if tylonal doesn't bring down the fever just to give the child more until it does, if the dynatap doesn't make the child sleepy I am not giving her enough. Oh the list goes on but you get my gist. And this is at least four different peds I have heard this garbage from. Nope I don't trust peds. Their agenda does not match what I wish for my family.
Depends on where you are... here it's 8 or 4'9" or 80lbs. And fwiw best practice says that the child must pass the 5 step test to be safe to be out of a booster, and since that could push them to needing to be in a booster until 10 or older... you could easily have 6 kids in seats at once.

At any rate don't take your child to a pediatrician if you don't feel it is in their best interest. My older son has never seen one and won't unless there is reason for it. We too do not vaccinate and prefer a more natural approach. However that being said I think that your whole attitude towards an entire group of people is offensive and no better than any other stereotype whether it be for race or choice of life partner or location of residence.
post #120 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I have never run into a female pediatrician. I suppose some exist.. but in my experience I have never seen one. And no I don't think it is sexist.. I said EITHER a nanny OR a wife.
My children's pediatrician is female. My pediatrician when I was young was female. That's not to say that either or both of them didn't have wives at home or at work somewhere, but if you were trying to imply that doctors - specifically, pediatricians - are men, you might want to do a little research on the subject. Pediatrics, in fact, is a field saturated with female professionals.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_19570318/
Quote:
Today, 42 percent of all pediatricians and 58 percent of those under age 45 are women, according to the 1996 Pediatric Specialty Survey. The share will continue to grow; in 1995, 63 percent of pediatric interns were women.
On topic, if your point is that the AAP's guidelines should not be taken as gospel, then I actually agree with you. But their own parenting situations are irrelevant to the discussion. The AAP does not make parenting recommendations. They make safety recommendations. Parenting is a skill (and talent!) based on a complex combination of emotion, intuition, instinct, and science. Safety, on the other hand, is based on statistics, probability and margin of error. I hope that the AAP does not get these two concepts as confused as lay people are apt to.
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