8 year old "accidents"

[mom_to_my_rugrats]

Good evening everyone, I am really hoping someone might be able to off some insight or suggestions regarding my daughters so called accidents because she doesnt want to stop playing or watching TV long enough to go half the time. I STILL have to remind her because if I dont, she will wait and wait and wait till the last possible second to go and by then its too late! Then...when she gets in trouble for something unrelated and sent to her room or time out, the will threaten me with I will pee my pants and if she is in her room for however long, every 5 mintes I hear I have to go to the bathroom mom. If I tell her she cant, well you can guess what will happen. And if I let her out yo go, she uses it as a stall tactic! I can expect this behavior from a 3 or 4 year old but 8?? I cannot deal with the constant laundry and scrubbing of the couch and bed anymore! I just dont know what else to do. I am SOO hoping someone here has gone or is going through what I am right now. Its like I have a 2 year old here not an 8 year old! HELP!! PLEASE!! I am looking forward to hearing from someone soon. Have a wonderful day!

Patti

[Freud]

Whenever a potty-trained child regresses to wetting and soiling themselves once again, in whatever form, be it voluntary or involuntary, there's something wrong (physically, emotionally, behaviorally). There's probably more to it than "I don't want to stop watching TV." Try to understand the function of the behavior. Observe what's going on (other than that she's playing a game or watching TV). Has anything significant changed in her life lately?

[mom_to_my_rugrats]

Thanks for your reply. Nothing has changed recently, or even in the past 2 years. She does great in school, has friends and is friendly and outgoing. There are times where I catch her doing the "potty dance" when she has to go but more times then not, she will still deny she has to go and will fight me when I prompt her to go in the bathroom and at least try. I stopped taking her by the hand and bringing her in there myself because all she did was pull away.

If it were only at night fine, I can see that. I have been told that some kids wet the bed till 10-11 or 12 and beyond. The only thing that I can see why is maybe she is jealous somehow of her brother who is 5. She was never jealous or regressed up until now, not even when he was born. So, I cant think of anything else that would make her still do that.

Nothing I have tried has worked....time outs, grounding, taking away toys and movies/tv, making her clean it up (which is what I do anyways), talking to her (not yelling or arguing....just sitting down with her and asking her whats wrong)....everything.

Patti

[lil_miss_understood]

have you considered food allergies?

[hipumpkins]

can she be responsible for the wet clothes? Have her rinse them and put them in the washer (Or hang them if they can't be tossed in right away)
Let her wash herself and get redressed.

Can you set a timer for the Tv or video games and give her a very short time so that when the timer goes off so do the electronics for the day.
this way she isn't so distracted for so long.

[Freud]

Originally Posted by hipumpkins

can she be responsible for the wet clothes? Have her rinse them and put them in the washer (Or hang them if they can't be tossed in right away)
Let her wash herself and get redressed.

Can you set a timer for the Tv or video games and give her a very short time so that when the timer goes off so do the electronics for the day.
this way she isn't so distracted for so long.

I think this is a great idea. At first, she may need you to help her do these things, but giving her more responsibility and control might change the situation.

Does she do this at school as well?

[momofmine]

I think it sounds like you are pushing a little too hard and she is pushing back. It is a natural human reflex. I would NOT make the child responsible for wet clothes, especially if you are talking about nighttime bedwetting also, because it sounds already like you are punishing her for something that might not be under her control 100% of the time.

If there is nighttime bedwetting then I would definitely look into food allergies, as the PP mentioned above, or other causes. Undiagnosed UTI's can also cause that. I've heard some have success with chiropractors for bedwetting, or homeopathy. I would personally stop punishing and sit down with my child at a time where emotions were neutral, and just ask her to talk about it. How does she feel? What does she think is going on? I would tell her I don't want to fight with her on it that I only want to help her and ask her how she thinks I might be able to help. Then I would completely stop any punishment for it, any frustration (showing her the frustration that is), etc, and simply help her. When she wets, clean it up, remind her to go if you think she needs to during the day. For nighttime wetting I would try an elimination diet or seek out an alternative health care practitioner for help.

[momofmine]

You can also buy home UTI tests. That can be a cause of both day and nighttime wetting. I know it is frustrating because it seems to you like she is manipulating you, but this would be a sign to me that something is not working, and that we need to find a different approach.

[harrietsmama]

My dd is 9 1/2 and we still have poop holding, soiling issues. I believe it boils down to control issues. dd's were very severe, due to some serious family issues, but in my research to find ways to help her I consistently found that these are due to a feeling of lack of control. One thing that may help is giving her choices as much as possible, like things you ordinarily don't give choices on. Maybe at the grocery store, do you want burgers or pork chops? or what vegetable do you want tonight?

ITA about *not* making her do the wet clothes, it's humiliating and emotionally damaging. I know it's a big PIA to do the clean up (I've been cleaning pooh for 9 1/2 years) but I believe doing anything that might be shaming will just make your situation worse.

[hipumpkins]

I would just like to clarify that I didn't mean the clean as, "Look what you did now clean that up"
But rather..."Your pants are wet please go and rinse them and hang them so they don't get moldy. (Or drop them in the wash so they can be cleaned) "
I have no idea how that is shaming. Of course also I do not mean that for nigh time accidents..although, as long time bed wetter ,I much preferred taking care of the wet sheets /c it was so embarrassing. My mother never told me to do it. I just did it and my mother pretended she didn't notice the new sheets. It was better for me.
I feel like if it is causing a strain b/c of all the clean up and it could be more shaming to have your mother so upset with you while she scrubs.

[Ruthla]

It sounds like you and your 8yo have gotten into very negative habits with one another. There seems to be a lot of "grounding" and "time outs" with undertandable "wanting to get you back" on her part. It sounds to me like you two need to completely recharge and reset how you interact, with far less punishment and a lot more trusting. You might want to rethink the "sending her to her room" tactic completely.

I can't help but wonder if she's never learned to listen to her own body signals because you keep on nagging her about it, and possibly she might be thinking "I was going to use the toilet, but now that Mom's mentioned it, I won't!" Have you tried "doing nothing" regarding her using the toilet, and letting her decide for herself when she needs to go without any reminders at all?

I don't think it's unreasonable to have to wash sheets all the time at this age. But scrubbing down the couch? I didn't even tolerate that when I was potty-training a 3yo! Could you have her not sit on the couch, or sit on some kind of waterproof pad, so the cleanup isn't so difficult and frustrating?

I'd also let her go to the bathroom whenever she asks, even if it's inconvenient and even if you think she's using it as a delay tactic. I can tell you- at age 8, if I had to go and was told "no", I'd likely have had an accident as well, and I didn't have a problem with daytime wetting.

[denimtiger]

Originally Posted by hipumpkins

I would just like to clarify that I didn't mean the clean as, "Look what you did now clean that up"
But rather..."Your pants are wet please go and rinse them and hang them so they don't get moldy. (Or drop them in the wash so they can be cleaned) "
I have no idea how that is shaming. Of course also I do not mean that for nigh time accidents..although, as long time bed wetter ,I much preferred taking care of the wet sheets /c it was so embarrassing. My mother never told me to do it. I just did it and my mother pretended she didn't notice the new sheets. It was better for me.
I feel like if it is causing a strain b/c of all the clean up and it could be more shaming to have your mother so upset with you while she scrubs.

This. I don't understand how expecting a child to clean up a mess for which she is responsible is shaming. Yes, yelling and making her feel shamed is a problem. But my 28-month-old dd is perfectly capable and willing to participate in "Oops! That made a puddle! Let's go get a towel and wipe it up. Okay, now let's put the panties in the washer." And, yes, I am speaking of potty-learning accidents, which are still rather frequent in my house. She also wipes up spills, changes socks, picks up crumbs, retrieves toys which were thrown across the room, and even helps with the vacuum hose. There is no yelling or tears involved. Unless it's a bad day, she feels quite empowered to have that degree of importance and responsibility, and nothing will anger her more than if I start to do her "job."

Honestly, watching my mother scrub a mess like that out of the couch, whether or not she looked visibly upset, would have been quite humiliating for me. I think kids develop defense mechanisms out of that, and it could aggravate the situation. ITA with calmly helping her move toward being responsible for the messes on her own. It could give her enough personal power to help the situation herself, and even if it doesn't, you may become less stressed about the mess.

[harrietsmama]

Ok, on the shaming aspect - I guess I'm looking at it through my daughter's eyes since her dad *does* shame her.

I suppose communication is the key. It took about a year of letter writing to get my daughter to talk to me about this issue. She and I write notes back and forth when possible. In the moment, I try to take her aside and talk, although poop isn't as visible as wet. And we use a code word - fairy dust for discussing if she has some or not.

Now sometimes we talk about what is happening, or if we are out somewhere and she notices she has some, she will ask for my help to figure out what to do.

I think once a physical cause is ruled out, the emotional aspects are very complex and take a great deal of effort, but in working on it what you gain is far more than dry pants, my daughter asks me questions about stuff now that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying out loud normally. I do it for her though and I love it.

[Minarai]

Just out of curiosity, does your DD have any mental retardation or developmental delays?
That could be a MAJOR factor.

[Bird Girl]

In a case like this, I would ask the question, if this is wrong, what is the right thing to do? When I was potty-training my kids the first time, I set a timer, asked them to sit on the potty when it went off, and rewarded them for it; one M&M for sitting on the toilet, three M&Ms for peeing on the toilet, and eight for pooping. I would return to a graduated reward system like this for your DD--once when she gets up in the morning, once when she returns from school, and at least every three hours when she is at home.

I know that lots of people do not like reward systems; they feel rewards degrade internal motivation. But an eight year old would presumably have internal motivation to avoid having accidents, and this one doesn't, or not enough, anyway. Rather than attempting to wade into deep internal issues or having endless conversations about why she isn't motivated to keep herself clean, just re-teach the behavior. Since this is a biological behavior, I would choose a biological reward, and food is the easiest one. In some ways, you'll be bypassing the conscious brain entirely, and potty-training her subconscious brain to associate the sensation of relieving on the toilet with the treat.

The punishments aren't working--they aren't a good way to teach a biological behavior anyway. Try a reward--quick, easy, and should be quickly effective.