Is this normal 2.5yo behavior?

[InMediasRes]

My DS is really getting to me. For the last three weeks, he has been absolutely miserable. Is the following behavior normal for his age?

When told that a toy is not for throwing, "dropping" it accidentally-on-purpose?

When going to the bathroom, regressing to needing me to turn on the light and pull down his pants?

Whining incessantly about anything and everything (when he seemed to be done with whining a while ago)?

Unable to make simple choices (do you want milk or water)?

Getting easily frustrated with things he already knows how to do, and then destructive when it doesn't work?

Take a way any and all toys (or anything at all) from his sister, even things he does not really want to play with?

Reverting to thumb/finger sucking. Obsessively? (his molars are already in, so I don't think this is teething related.)

Oy, I really need to get back on track here. We added a lot of positive discipline stuff when he turned two, and it seemed to really help his behavior, but he has gone off the deep end again! He is not fun to be around at all. I can't even play simple games with him without meltdowns. We moved over a month ago, so I expected some regression, but I am having a really tough time being positive with him, and I think we're in a nasty cycle of mom being frustrated all the time, and him clinging more.

Any good ideas for the behaviors above?

[sunnmama]

It all sounds really normal to me. My son is 2.5, and can't get his pants on and off at all. My dd couldn't do that until closer to 4. And, little kids like some help, even if they can do things, you know?

Believe me, kids are NOT done with whining at 2.5! lol! You'll be addressing that issue on and off throughout childrearing years.

Making choices--ime, this is more of an issue at 3 than at 2. I don't give choices about food (we only drink water). It just appears, often on family-style platters and the kids can self select from there.

Getting frustrated/destructive--normal. Give words "You're frustrated. That is so frustrating, huh?!" And tell him what to do (walk away, ask for help, etc).

Is his sister newly mobile/more interested in toys? It is normal for him to be suddenly interested in what she has. Even my 8 yo is suddenly interested in a toy her 2.5 yo brother pulls out (although she has the impulse control to not grab). Teach him to trade toys with her peacefully, but also reinforce that "dd can play with the toys, too. She is playing with that right now." Everything was his before she came along, and it can be difficult to accept that she has as much right to the toys as him.

The sucking--is he weaning/recently weaned? My 2.5 ds never sucked his thumb/fingers, but started this year as he cuts back on nursing. Also, if your ds has regressed due to the move, it would be normal for him to pick up a habit he previously had. We moved when dd was 6, and she regressed to a lot of her 3 yo behaviors

Remember, a lot of people find 3 more challenging than 2. I don't say that to discourage you, but just to point out that a lot of these challenging behaviors are still normal (and maybe even MORE common) at 3 than at 2. Having age appropriate expectations can help with patience, although dealing with meltdowns all day can feel like running a marathon. Is he still napping?

[Pepper44]

All of these things are perfectly normal behavior!

Many 2.5 year olds aren't even reliably using the potty, let alone turning the light on and off and pulling their pants down/up by themselves. My 3 year old DD still won't go in the bathroom if the light is off, and she needs help with her pants.

I always give my DD water unless she asks for orange juice specifically, or for something special we might happen to have. A lot of times if I give her a choice or ask what she wants to eat/drink she says, "tell me!" and wants me to basically choose for her or guide her through choosing.

Dropping a toy on purpose...I wouldn't make a big deal of it. Just inwardly roll your eyes and move on. He's just trying assert himself. You tell him he can't throw, well he wants to *do* something. Probably the same issue with his sister. He wants to be in control. It's a phase and probably a good opportunity to gently remind him about sharing or how he would feel if his sister took all his toys away.

Also, if you are taking away his toys when he throws them or drops them, he might be copying you. You're bigger than him and you take his toys, he's bigger than his sister so he can take her toys.

Kids go through phases of whining for many reasons. It could be that he's growing and he's extra hungry/tired/sore. Maybe he's not feeling well for some reason--not sleeping as soundly, slight seasonal allergies making his head feel funny, frustrated because of his level of development/learning new skills. My DD has gone through these phases, and while it's frustrating for me as a parent, I recognize she must be feeling "off" in some way and we try not to make a big deal of it. Just continue life as normal. If she's really crying and whining I will sometimes gently remind her that we have trouble understanding what she's saying when she whines like that.

I don't know about the sucking thing. Maybe it's because of the move and he's looking for some way to comfort himself as he settles into his new environment?

One thing I found that helped us a lot at this stage is to step back and make sure I'm not setting up power struggles. Have you ever read Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort? This book saved my sanity during my DD's 2nd year. Now DD is 3 and things are much smoother for us even though 3 is bringing all kinds of new challenges.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Chiming in that all the things OP described, my 2 year old pretty much has down to a science. So I am willing to bet its pretty normal. ESPECIALLY the taking toys away from his INFANT brother, even when DS1 wasn't playing with it. (side note: DS2 has one hell of a death grip developed after having things ripped out of his hands so many times, )

[Drummer's Wife]

Sounds a lot like my 2.5 yo.

[JL83]

Those are normal, but not things you have to put up with. I don't believe in the "weathering the storm" parenting philosophy. So there is hope.

Originally Posted by SactoMommy

My DS is really getting to me. For the last three weeks, he has been absolutely miserable. Is the following behavior normal for his age?

When told that a toy is not for throwing, "dropping" it accidentally-on-purpose?

Hahaha. I personally love this one. My DD is a limit tester just like I was. So I turn it back on her. Instead of saying "no throwing", we talk about appropriate behaviors with a certain class of object! Hard toys, we can use them for what they are meant for, we can use them in the place of other hard toys (like cars in the doll house) and we can do whatever we like with them as long as there isn't a chance that the toy might be damaged or someone/thing gets hurt. Then, she comes up with all the things she can think of that are acceptable. Sometimes we have to sit there while she asks "can I drive the car on X" "can I drive it on Y" "can I roll it on X"... But instead of building a list of what she may not do (which is probably HUGE) she's building a list of what she may do.

When going to the bathroom, regressing to needing me to turn on the light and pull down his pants?

Whining incessantly about anything and everything (when he seemed to be done with whining a while ago)?

Unable to make simple choices (do you want milk or water)?

We offer a choice once. Then we'll offer it again and ask her to repeat what the choices are. Then, if she isn't able/willing to make a choice we tell her that in 3 seconds we will chose for her (the time varies depending on the situation). Then we chose and STICK with the choice. Even if she suddenly decides that she will in fact walk to the car. If we've made the choice to carry her we follow through.

Getting easily frustrated with things he already knows how to do, and then destructive when it doesn't work?

"Oh, I see that toy is frustrating you. Why don't you take a break until you calm down." And then we help her take a break if she doesn't on her own. We'll sit in another room until she calms. And if it continues, the toy gets placed in the "tomorrow" basket, and is replaced on the shelf after she's asleep.

Take a way any and all toys (or anything at all) from his sister, even things he does not really want to play with?

I have no idea. We aren't there yet.

Reverting to thumb/finger sucking. Obsessively? (his molars are already in, so I don't think this is teething related.)

Ug... DD has to go wash her hands every single time they are in her mouth. I can't stand spit on stuff.

[The4OfUs]

TOTALLY NORMAL. Sounds like my house 2.5 years ago, and 1 year ago.....and sometimes still! (They're 5 and 3)

When told that a toy is not for throwing, "dropping" it accidentally-on-purpose?

I try to phrase things like this in the positive as much as possible. So, "Keep that in your hand please" or "Please gently put that down" or whatever else you want him TO do instead of what NOT to do, because chances are he only hears the last part of the "not" sentence like, "don't throw that toy" he hears "throw that toy". frustrating, huh?!! WHen theyr'e testing, I just say something kind of bored like, "that wasn't what I asked you to do - I asked you to X" and drop it.

When going to the bathroom, regressing to needing me to turn on the light and pull down his pants?

I'd just go with this one, totally age appropriate and not out of the realm of normal for his age. Keep gently nudging towards him doing it again himself, but I owuldn't make a struggle out of this one, personally.

Whining incessantly about anything and everything (when he seemed to be done with whining a while ago)?

My ears seem to be unable to understand whining voices I use "Please use your normal {insert child's name} voice and I'll be happy to X." and then stick to that. But before that i had to have a conversation about what a whiny voice was vs their normal voice...we played different voices - normal, mad, sad, whiny, loud, soft, etc. so they could actually hear the differences themselves. I still have to remind them, but it does help.

Unable to make simple choices (do you want milk or water)?

Sometimes I don't offer a choice, if they're in a particular mood that seems to be easily overwhelmed that day. Or I offer the choice, wait a few seconds and say 'if you can't decide I'll decide for you this time' and then do - and if they're upset, I say, 'next time you can choose [other option] if you want' and then redirect them to something else (child version of bean dip)

Getting easily frustrated with things he already knows how to do, and then destructive when it doesn't work?

NORMAL. "Wow, you're mad that's not working out the way you want." Trying to 'fix' it for my kids makes it worse than just letting them be mad, so that's one we just ride out. destruction I address by something like, "It's OK to be mad, but it's not OK to break things (or whatever)" and then give an option of how they can express their anger/frustration.

Take a way any and all toys (or anything at all) from his sister, even things he does not really want to play with?

We tried the 'trade instead of take' thing. It works OK sometimes. But I'm in the camp of taking things back that a kid took from someone, which I know is not necessarily popular on this board. I give things back to people that have had things taken from them. BUT, we've also got a rule that if you're not actively using something (aside from a few special things they each have that are just their own), that the other person can use it and then return it to you, and it's not considered "taking". There are relatively few toys that are just one person's in our house, and those ones are usually in their bedrooms because they are special.

Reverting to thumb/finger sucking. Obsessively? (his molars are already in, so I don't think this is teething related.)

This is probably a comfort measure as he's going through so much learning and indepedence gaining at this time in his life!

[InMediasRes]

Thanks, mamas. I feel so much better. We had a huge meltdown this morning. He asked for some milk. When I presented the milk, apparently it was the "wrong milk". He wanted "better milk" but was unable to specify what that meant. I offered him another cup. No go. After a few attempts to fix the situation, he melted down completely. I lost it and yelled "I don't know what to DO!" He got really upset. When we all calmed down, I said, "Mommy can't figure out what you want. You can tell me, or we can put the milk away together." Apparently putting it away was a good solution. He put his milk in the fridge and that was the end of it. I think sometimes they just need to have the tantrum. It's not about milk, it's about negative emotions.

Most of the behaviors, like needing me to turn on lights, etc., I wasn't really trying to correct, I was just wondering if other kids do this. With "sharing" with his sister, we tried the trading thing, but it works better if I tell him she's having a turn and he can have a turn in a few minutes, and then find something else to do.

With the getting frustrated, I hadn't tried just putting it away the first time, but PP who said that it makes it worse if you try to fix it is absolutely right.

I talked with my mom about this, and we agreed that when they step forward in one area (like becoming potty independent and speaking in full sentences) they step back in another. Then I feel like I'm re-evaluating my parenting philosophy all over again. What a roller coaster.

Is there a growth spurt around this age? He's been chugging milk like crazy (a lot of our tantrums are over the fact that he's had WAY too much milk for one day, although I try to just let him have it when he wants it) and he all of a sudden seems to need to nap again, even though he gave it up a while ago.

[JL83]

I personally can't do it... But I have a friend who has great luck with "special" things like milk.

Her son is really into bears. So they call everything "bear" whatever. So "bear milk"... It personally drives me crazy. But she's done it with 3 kids through that age and had good success.

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by JL83

I personally can't do it... But I have a friend who has great luck with "special" things like milk.

Her son is really into bears. So they call everything "bear" whatever. So "bear milk"... It personally drives me crazy. But she's done it with 3 kids through that age and had good success.

Ha. That would never work with DS. We tried having TV be a special thing, but he absolutely cannot stop with special stuff. Milk is my compromise for not drinking juice all the time, and he likes soy milk too, so we alternate.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by SactoMommy

Ha. That would never work with DS. We tried having TV be a special thing, but he absolutely cannot stop with special stuff. Milk is my compromise for not drinking juice all the time, and he likes soy milk too, so we alternate.

The object isn't special or restricted. You just call it by a special name. So it's "Bear milk" and "bear t-shirt" and "bear underwear"...

You can hand the kid, who is asking for juice, "bear water" and he'll drink it with a smile.

As I said, it's too "cutesy" for me and drives me insane. But it seems to work for them. Their kids really like to pretend that their water is "princess" or "bear" water and then they drink it.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by SactoMommy

Ha. That would never work with DS. We tried having TV be a special thing, but he absolutely cannot stop with special stuff. Milk is my compromise for not drinking juice all the time, and he likes soy milk too, so we alternate.

Can you cut down on the options? If the juice is a battle, don't buy any juice at all?

This is a big reason my kids just drink water .

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

Can you cut down on the options? If the juice is a battle, don't buy any juice at all?

This is a big reason my kids just drink water .

Yeah, we stopped buying juice a while ago. He can have milk or water. I usually give him water throughout the day, but he usually likes milk with meals. Lately he's just picked up his consumption a lot.

[goodygumdrops]

Ok, this is really helpful to me to read this today. This is my 2.5 son exactly.

This morning I called my aunt and told her the situation that was playing out because I was about to pull my hair out of my head. My son woke up and wanted to watch cartoons in bed next to me. So, I said no problem. He climbs into bed for about 10 minutes and then wants to go downstairs so we go downstairs. He proceeds to start whining. I am asking him what going on, what do you want, are you hungry because I'm going to make him breakfast, etc. So, I make him cereal and sippy. He then proceeds to having a meltdown and will NOT tell me what is going on. So, eventually I am so frustrated, I tell him he needs to go back in his room and calm down and then we can discuss breakfast.

He comes out of his room. And basically the same thing repeats after I start making him pancakes. I think he eventually calmed town and ate his pancakes.

I am seriously struggling with this age. I really can't wait for it to be over. I feel so inadaquate as a mother right now.

[Ahappymel]

Yup...I agree that this thread has been a helpful reminder that SOMETHING interesting happens developmentally at 2 1/2 that kind of lends it way to some new interesting new self-expression and behaviors
My 2.5 year old has started SPITTING on the floor as a sign of disgust when he is angry about something. Ugh. GROSS Especially when we are in a public place.
He is also not wanting to make a choice between the choices we provide (that trick used to work! Now he seems to have discovered that there is an option "3"-HIS way-that we've left out).
Oh...and the throwing himself on the floor. That is new.
I don't know why people fear age 2. I always thought that 3 was more challenging.

[Ahappymel]

Oh! As encouragement, I remember the latter part of age 4 and year 5 being WONDERFUL compared to age 3
My oldest has now just turned 8 though and uh oh....gotta go find a thread about something weird that happens at late 7/age 8!

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by Ahappymel

Yup...I agree that this thread has been a helpful reminder that SOMETHING interesting happens developmentally at 2 1/2 that kind of lends it way to some new interesting new self-expression and behaviors
My 2.5 year old has started SPITTING on the floor as a sign of disgust when he is angry about something. Ugh. GROSS Especially when we are in a public place.
He is also not wanting to make a choice between the choices we provide (that trick used to work! Now he seems to have discovered that there is an option "3"-HIS way-that we've left out).
Oh...and the throwing himself on the floor. That is new.
I don't know why people fear age 2. I always thought that 3 was more challenging.

Yeah, mine has figured out that he can buy a few seconds by throwing himself on the floor if he doesn't want to leave someplace. I think it's hilarious that he wants to spend those few seconds on the floor. I'm just waiting for him to figure out that he can get more time by running away. Right now I just pick him up and drag him out if he won't come willingly.

Yeah, the choices thing used to work for us too! That's why I'm so baffled when it doesn't.

Spitting...ew. DS is into this dramatic hacking and spitting out his food when he doesn't like it.

I think MIL said something about the latter half of the years being sort of uproarious, followed by calm at the beginning of the next year.

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by goodygumdrops

I am seriously struggling with this age. I really can't wait for it to be over. I feel so inadaquate as a mother right now.

Me too! I hate that I am wishing we could just fast forward through this. I hate feeling like it's back to the drawing board with every tantrum.

Of course, when I talked to my mom, she claims that he's not independent enough, and I need to leave him with a sitter more. That's her advice for everything....forced independence.

[Norasmomma]

Sounds totally normal to me and totally aggravating. I just was there. Now we're on to the "crucifix pose" on the ground if things don't go DD's way. My mantra in life now, "IT'S just a phase, this too shall pass".

Three is hard too, but different. I just talked to a friend and he has teens and he said, all the phases have their plus and minus points. They are neither good nor bad, just different. I tell myself this often.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by SactoMommy

I think MIL said something about the latter half of the years being sort of uproarious, followed by calm at the beginning of the next year.

Several weeks before and after every birthday and half-birthday my kids go off the deep end in some way or another. So when you calculate it out, there's like, 12 "normal" weeks every year.

And I agree, whoever came up with "terrible twos" was out of their mind. 2.5-3.5 was my least favorite timeframe with my son, andis proving to be my least favorite timeframe with my daughter. She's creeping towards 3.5 finally and I hope to have some relief soon.

However, the PP who said it's not that there are no issues, it's just different issues, who is spot on. BUT - there's a lot of joy in between the madness.