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Help me understand why - Page 3

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristaDJ View Post
My husband helps me fold laundry on his days off and after dinner he often does the dishes and helps me clean up the kitchen. I was a single mom with several kids for a while though and still got everything done and had a day or two each week that I had nothing to do. Maybe I just have more lax standards
Wow. I'm just busting in to say, "wow."
I have a new baby and I homeschool my very social six-year-old and I can't imagine having nothing to do. My dh rocks housework-wise. He does the laundrey, the dishes, cleans the kitchen...but I still have sooooo much to do. We are always, always working on projects. And when I'm not helping dd1 with those, I'm driving her to playdates and classes and picking out curriculum because she likes THIS about the math curriculum I chose but not THIS, and then we,dd1 and I, make everything from scratch. So there is always cooking and baking and cleaning. And more importantly, there is always nursing the baby. Man, does this baby nurse non-stop. I just...this is like a porn call. Tell me slowly and with details how you have nothing to do sometimes.

To OP--I don't get it. I'm working so, so incredibly hard to be able to stay home with by littles. I can't imagine wanting to just give that away.
Also, I think it's okay to think about these things. Nothing wrong with wondering why someone does something. You don't say she's a terrible mom--you just wonder why she's doing what she's doing.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Several of your posts sound judgemental of homeschoolers. Apparently, we don't care about our kids' desires, needs, socialization, or learning.
Then you heard wrong. We all have different ideas on how we want to meet our kid's desires, needs, socialization and learning. <- That is my point. We don't need to understand each other or "wonder why each other had children" when we make different decisions.

You don't believe children "need" to be in school, I believe my daughter "needs" to be in school. I don't think you're "not caring about your kids" and I don't want you to think I'm "sending my kids away - why did I bother having children." Nobody likes to be judged. Fact of life - yes. Bummer - YES. ESPECIALLY if it comes from a "friend." <- That is point #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
Please come to the decluttering/ organizing forum and tell us your methods for accomplishing this! Seriously. I'm always looking for good advice and I know a lot of others there are, too.
No joke! I have to schedule down time for myself or I totally burn myself out trying to do it all. I even use a timer. Until I saw the few posts here I thought that was the norm for Stay At Home Moms! (er.. the "no down time" problem... not the timer. I know that's my own sick dependancy )

To say I have a lot on my plate is a HUGE understatement. I have a lot to do and I like it that way. I have children because they are awesome, not because I felt I needed to spend all of my time with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
Wow. I can't imagine having nothing to do.
"Nothing to do" doesn't even exist in my world. There are always a million things for me to do. We're all different - clearly. That doesn't mean that those of us with a million things to do are somehow ditching the point in having children.

When in the history of the world did women ever have the luxury of just laying around with her kids all day? I'll answer for you: Never. That has never happened. To those of you taking advantage of this newfound lucury: good for you! Just know the rest of us love our kids too.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley View Post
Then you heard wrong. We all have different ideas on how we want to meet our kid's desires, needs, socialization and learning. <- That is my point. We don't need to understand each other or "wonder why each other had children" when we make different decisions.
Wondering and questioning what someone else does is not the same as judging or berating, and it seems you are equating the two. Maybe you don't need to understand others, but some of us would like to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley
You don't believe children "need" to be in school, I believe my daughter "needs" to be in school. I don't think you're "not caring about your kids" and I don't want you to think I'm "sending my kids away - why did I bother having children."
I don't think you're sending your kids away. You must have me mixed up with another poster. Out of curiosity, though, what would you have done 200 years ago when your daughter most likely would not have had the opportunity to go to school? Do you think she would have been ignorant and unsocialized? Somehow, people managed to raise their kids for millenia without schools.

You're right, I don't think the majority of children need to be in school. That doesn't mean I look down on you for your choices. It just means we disagree. I'm capable of disagreeing without freaking out. Are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley
To say I have a lot on my plate is a HUGE understatement. I have a lot to do and I like it that way. I have children because they are awesome, not because I felt I needed to spend all of my time with them.
I WOTH about 30 hrs. per week and am a part-time college student. We all have a lot on our plates. I think it's a common misconception that SAH parents and/or homeschoolers spend all their time with their kids. My kids have their own friends. I have my own friends. My husband and I go out to do things alone on occasion. My kids have their own rooms.

I think you should look at your posts and recognize that you sound just as judgemental as anyone else. "Luxury of just laying around with her kids all day..."...? Puh-leeze.
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Wondering and questioning what someone else does is not the same as judging or berating, and it seems you are equating the two. Maybe you don't need to understand others, but some of us would like to.
Statements like "sending her kids away for no apparent reason" followed by "what's the point of her having kids" isn't the same as "different strokes for different folks." That surpasses "not understanding," crossing into "wtf" territory. They're crude statements. That's what I and all of the posters who were deleted were pointing out.

I think it's interesting that you think those statements and questions aren't judging or berating, but you managed to find my statements judgemental of homeschoolers. Talk about

Quote:
I don't think you're sending your kids away. You must have me mixed up with another poster.
"Sending (her) kids away... why did (she) bother having children" is a quote from the OP. If I were her friend, that would really piss me off. It wouldn't sound like she wanted to understand where I was comming from at all.

Quote:
Out of curiosity, though, what would you have done 200 years ago when your daughter most likely would not have had the opportunity to go to school? Do you think she would have been ignorant and unsocialized? Somehow, people managed to raise their kids for millenia without schools.
I do not believe that and I never implied that. This isn't 200 years ago. I believe my child needs to be in school because it suits our family and it suits her. I don't believe your child needs to be in school. I think there are a million and one ways to raise children. Contrary to the theme in this thread, I truly believe there are "Different Strokes For Different Folks."

Quote:
I think it's a common misconception that SAH parents and/or homeschoolers spend all their time with their kids.
You said you don't leave your kids, EVER, hence my "misconception."

Quote:
I think you should look at your posts and recognize that you sound just as judgemental as anyone else. "Luxury of just laying around with her kids all day..."...? Puh-leeze.
Interesting you think that's a judgement on my part, because I just reiterated Krista's statement. She often has "nothing really to do besides hang out with (my) kids." That is a luxury. 200 years ago that wouldn't have happened.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
Wow. I'm just busting in to say, "wow."
I have a new baby and I homeschool my very social six-year-old and I can't imagine having nothing to do. My dh rocks housework-wise. He does the laundrey, the dishes, cleans the kitchen...but I still have sooooo much to do. We are always, always working on projects. And when I'm not helping dd1 with those, I'm driving her to playdates and classes and picking out curriculum because she likes THIS about the math curriculum I chose but not THIS, and then we,dd1 and I, make everything from scratch. So there is always cooking and baking and cleaning. And more importantly, there is always nursing the baby. Man, does this baby nurse non-stop. I just...this is like a porn call. Tell me slowly and with details how you have nothing to do sometimes.
I homeschool as well and make everything from scratch. I also line dry my cloths and cloth diaper and use cloth pads and family cloth. We have eggs and homemade toast for breakfast everyday and I make dinner every night unless there is leftovers. I'm also nursing my 1yo and 2yo. I'll try to explain this. We do all the dishes after dinner and we wipe the table and counters and sweep the floor and pick up the toys. I do a load or two of laundry every day. I clean the bathroom sink, mirror and the yucky spot behind the toilet seat every night before or after my shower. On Wednesdays I go to the grocery store with the kids. On Fridays I dust, vacuum, clean the playroom, mop the kitchen and bathroom and clean the toilet. I also usually take a bath with the girls once a week and that's when I clean the tub. Things like taking out the garbage and emptying the compost get done when they need it. My husband cleans the bird cage, feeds the animals and changes the cat's litter box on the weekends. That's also when we work outside and go to the grocery store together. I don't have a sparkling house by any means, there are things that I just don't do, like cleaning the oven. I wouldn't do that no matter how much time I had, it's just not me. But even if I did do extensive cleaning of everything I would still get it all done without anyone here in my way for 40 hours a week. We don't go out much, just friends over occasionally and no regular activities that we attend. I'm sure that makes a difference as days just fly by when you have to leave.

Carley, I hope you don't think that I ever insinuated that you don't love your kids too. That's just not something I would do. I can't judge another mother's feelings for her children and I don't doubt that your children are the most important thing in your life.
Yes, I realize that our great grandmothers didn't get to just lay around with their kids. But it was for entirely different reasons. Most women today aren't busy milking cows and churning butter, we have conveniences available to us that give us more time with our families. I take advantage of some of those but I don't have more time because I'm lucky or lazy, I have it because I let go of things that don't need done and my standards for what needs done are probably lower than most here. If we are clean, the house is picked up and relatively clean, food is available and there isn't a bunch of dirty clothes then in my book "we're free!" Like I said different strokes for different folks, but that doesn't mean we all get each other.
post #46 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley View Post
"Sending (her) kids away... why did (she) bother having children" is a quote from the OP. If I were her friend, that would really piss me off. It wouldn't sound like she wanted to understand where I was comming from at all.
Carley, again, I'm sorry if I touched a nerve, but you're NOT doing what my friend is doing and therefore should not be offended by my thought of 'why bother having kids'. Again, full-time, M-F 8-5pm kinda hours for a 18-24 m.o. is WAY different than 6 or 9 hours a week at 2 1/2 or 3. Agree?

It could easily be turned around on myself, as I'm a FT WOHM. But it's just a different scenario when you stay at home. That's all I mean.

As other posters (SAHMs) have agreed, I find it hard to understand what the point of having babies and SAHing to yes, send them away for the majority of their waking hours 5 days a week. It's inaccurate to say that I don't want to know where she's coming from. I do. That's why I asked.


Anyway, I've read some responses that help me understand why, such as perhaps my friend wants to have 1-on-1 time with the newer baby OR perhaps she enjoys the baby stage and not so much the toddler stage. Or maybe she uses the time for herself. And while I don't agree it's the best and it's not a choice I'd make, it doesn't affect our friendship.

Thanks everyone.
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley View Post
I have NO idea where her friend is comming from, but I don't see a difference. What I see is a parent's choice - that's not "no apparent reason," KWIM? Maybe she feels the same way I do about my daughter's preschool - she gets a break & her kids get the benefit of socialisation. Children at school (or any type of "daycare") get constant attention all of the time - many people feel that's important to development & don't feel they can provide that at home. There's no "right" or "wrong" in parenting.

I'm giving my perspective as someone who's experienced the "why have kids if you're going to send them away?" argument from judgemental (*home/unschoolers). I've never been able to form a solid relationship because of this... besides Facebook, these former "friends" and I don't have any close contact. Who wants a friendship in which they are going to be judged so harshly?

Maybe the OP doesn't let her thoughts that would be hurtful for a mother to hear (I think most mothers would be put off by any question beginning with "Why have kids if you...") interfere with her relationship. That's excellent. My message was that she doesn't have to understand, and if she wants to keep a friendship peaceful she could work on self-talk to let her judgement/"opinions" go. If she doesn't let her thoughts interfere then she already does that. Awesome.

*DISCLAIMER: Yes, I realize that most homeschoolers are not judgemental of those who choose not to homeschool


Um no, your crazy if you think this. I used to be a preschool teacher, I have a degree in early edu. I LOVE children! I have nannied, taught children, babysat, watched children of various ages, and had my own babies. And while I like to think I do the absolute best job watching other's children, I CANNOT give 100% of myself to one on one attention to A child. Just not going to happen. And it NEVER HAPPENS unless you have a nanny and only one child. When I was working at a preschool, moms like the OP described often dropped off their kids all day long, and no it was not healthy, or normal or good for their devopments. I saw first hand how sad (and really it was heartbreaking) it was to these children, babies and up. Once the kids were used to going they began to get excited about coming and telling their parents they LOVED it! But really they just got used to it, and knew they weren't going to be witht their parents and just accepted it.

I'm really sorry but children don't belong in daycare. I know some people need to do this, and of course this is better then being homeless or starving or something so yes this is better, but ideally the child (esp. in the early years) belong at home with mom.

I LOVE staying home with my 2 children and when I have more I will still love to be with them. I love watching them grow, helping them learn, letting them teach me. Being a mom is really under-rated and there just isn't enough support.

I really feeel bad for the kids who have to go to daycare when they don't need to. What happens when they fall down and get hurt? Who soothes them? What happens when they get picked on, or feel bad about something, or have an accident? How do they learn to cope without the love and support from someone who truely cares for them? Who do you want influencing your kids, (yes the "montessori" people will of course be nice and wonderous to you, you pay them. Who are they when they are tired, crabby, sick, talking to other adults?) These things make me think, I would never ever "send my kids away" ever. In fact I have been away from my oldest (3) for only 7 hrs. ever in his entire life. I just REALLY LOVE being with my kids, I find it sad when people say they need to "get away" like our children are these terrible beings. They only love us and want to be with us, is that so wrong?
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristaDJ View Post
I homeschool as well and make everything from scratch. I also line dry my cloths and cloth diaper and use cloth pads and family cloth. We have eggs and homemade toast for breakfast everyday and I make dinner every night unless there is leftovers. I'm also nursing my 1yo and 2yo. I'll try to explain this. We do all the dishes after dinner and we wipe the table and counters and sweep the floor and pick up the toys. I do a load or two of laundry every day. I clean the bathroom sink, mirror and the yucky spot behind the toilet seat every night before or after my shower. On Wednesdays I go to the grocery store with the kids. On Fridays I dust, vacuum, clean the playroom, mop the kitchen and bathroom and clean the toilet. I also usually take a bath with the girls once a week and that's when I clean the tub. Things like taking out the garbage and emptying the compost get done when they need it. My husband cleans the bird cage, feeds the animals and changes the cat's litter box on the weekends. That's also when we work outside and go to the grocery store together. I don't have a sparkling house by any means, there are things that I just don't do, like cleaning the oven. I wouldn't do that no matter how much time I had, it's just not me. But even if I did do extensive cleaning of everything I would still get it all done without anyone here in my way for 40 hours a week. We don't go out much, just friends over occasionally and no regular activities that we attend. I'm sure that makes a difference as days just fly by when you have to leave.
Thank you for this! I'm a full-time student but I've switched to distance-learning, which makes me a semi-SAHM, and I've had a little trouble switching the routine. This is helpful. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
post #49 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalmamaof1 View Post
I really feeel bad for the kids who have to go to daycare when they don't need to. What happens when they fall down and get hurt? Who soothes them? What happens when they get picked on, or feel bad about something, or have an accident? How do they learn to cope without the love and support from someone who truely cares for them? Who do you want influencing your kids, (yes the "montessori" people will of course be nice and wonderous to you, you pay them. Who are they when they are tired, talking crabby, sick, talking to other adults?)
This. Exactly!

Come on over to the WOHM forum and just read all the threads about moms who yearn to be with their young children all day, who are forced to leave them too soon, and how we try to comfort each other when one has to make the transition. We do it because we have to (mostly, some because they like working). We know our kids will mostly turn out ok, but I guarantee everyone of us has occasionally wondered about our kids being mistreated. I know when DD was preverbal (before age 3) and would get injured, I would find myself absolutely guiltsticken because I wasn't there to comfort her and I would always find myself questioning how it got there. Horrible, horrible thoughts...

If there is a benefit at that age, I haven't seen it. It's probably NOT best for her kids, but what works best for my friend. That's my honest conclusion.
post #50 of 83
I enrolled my dd1 in a Montessori program. It wasn't an accredited Montessori school but the teacher was fully accredited and so was her teacher's assistant. She wanted to bring Montessori to those who would otherwise not be able to afford it. Having been a Montessori child myself, I wanted it for my children. She was a bit older but that's only bc I found the school when she was a bit older.

I sent her 2 full days and she THRIVED. I don't drive so I can't take her to playgroups and the only ones I found near me kept trying to get me to join their church or Wednesday night bible study.....OR they drank wine while the kids played. DD1 is a high needs child and there were many days by 3pm where I was just mentally and physically exhausted from the day with her and being pregnant with HG. The library wasn't within walking distance so her access to other children near her age was this.

She came home with her dad (we were together then) and bounded out of the car so happy to tell me about her day, what she learned, show me her art the best way she knew how.....

Did it break my heart to do it?? In the beginning yes. Did I miss her? He!! yeah. Did I love us both enough to give us this break where I knew she would be safe and happy? Yes.

We're all different......I want to homeschool but I don't have the tenacity to follow through and she loves being at school. So we don't.

I had a friend who thought I was soooo wrong and made it known in subtle ways and we are no longer friends. I miss her.

I think the most important thing is if your friend's LO is happy at the end of the day and if your friend is happier herself at the end of the day. I've gotten into the swing of things now that I have 2 and run a small daycare myself (mostly part time kiddos of single moms) but when I just had dd1 and her needs, I loved the break from the constant struggle and motion to do what I needed to do during the day.

The mom's who's children I care for, are able to stop over during lunch most days and have lunch with us. It's like one big family picnic. I think my daycare though is an exception. They all also work just a few miles away so they can pop in whenever or join us at the park if we go on their lunch hour.....

Hugs.
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen View Post
This. Exactly!

Come on over to the WOHM forum and just read all the threads about moms who yearn to be with their young children all day, who are forced to leave them too soon, and how we try to comfort each other when one has to make the transition. We do it because we have to (mostly, some because they like working). We know our kids will mostly turn out ok, but I guarantee everyone of us has occasionally wondered about our kids being mistreated. I know when DD was preverbal (before age 3) and would get injured, I would find myself absolutely guiltsticken because I wasn't there to comfort her and I would always find myself questioning how it got there. Horrible, horrible thoughts...

If there is a benefit at that age, I haven't seen it. It's probably NOT best for her kids, but what works best for my friend. That's my honest conclusion.
I'm sorry you have to be away from your children. Looks like your doing it for the right reasons, not so you can have a "break" and get away from these creatures!

And again, I'm sure that my post sounded offensive, but really, I believe it.

If it's any consolation to those working outside the home for finacial reasons, I'm a SAHM with about $20,000 of debt. Finacially speaking I should have a 40hr full time work week to help support us. I don't and wouldn't change it.
post #52 of 83
By the way, if I met someone who did what you describe in the OP, I would assume one of the following:

-She does some type of WAH business or distance learning that, for whatever reason, she hasn't mentioned to you.

-She has some kind of chronic health problem that she hasn't mentioned to you, which makes it harder for her to keep up with toddlers.

-As pp's have said, it's hard to get into some Montessori schools, so she starts them early in order to get them in; or the corollary, maybe she has a deep, abiding belief in the Montessori mission and thinks it must be started early for the full benefits.

-Some kind of tradition in her family (there was a poster on either this thread or another, saying that it was common in her country to start real preschool at 18 months, so if her or her DH's family has roots in whatever country that was, that could account for it).
post #53 of 83
I had twins 17 months after my daugher was born.

I can assure you, even as SAHM there were times when I:

*could not devote 100 percent of my time to my individual child
*was crabby
*was depressed
*was suffering from extreme fatigue
*occasionally went to great lengths to speak to another adult

I was much more patient, relaxed, and refreshed as a child care provider because I got a state-mandated break every 4 hours, I got to get uninterrupted sleep every night, ect.

If someone needs time apart from their children, I would MUCH rather they take it, than to try to live up to some ridiculous standard of Good Mother matyrdom that works for some people but would turn others into a snappish, grumpy, exhausted shell.

Nobody truly knows why another person does something. Talking about being depressed is scary for women to do amongst each other because everyone knows people are just waiting to rip you to shreds over not being good enough. As for saying she wants a baby, how would anyone know that she doesn't feel pressure from her husband or pastor/religious person or family? None of us know that--and sometimes that can be a very REAL pressure. Or people get scared about a transition, they don't know what to do with themselves when they don't have a baby or very young dependent child around (I'm having to work through that now myself).

For goodness sakes. I loved my kids when I was a nanny, and at my preschool. I kissed scrapes, I was peed on in the process of toilet training because the kiddo didn't want to get out of my lap because the loved the story I was reading, I have had sleepless nights helping to stay around the clock at the bedside of a toddler going through chemo--who wasn't mine. Golly gee, those other moms and I had no problem seeing how much we both loved those children.

What ridiculous things we do to dehumanize each other. We trash the working moms, the SAHMs who don't do things "right". We trash the women (who many times are also mothers, or will be) who care for other people's children. We trash our mothers, our MILs, the women before us. I'm going to bet probably some of us are going to trash our daughter and DILs when they don't do things "right" either.

Unless someone is abusing their child, I really wish people would just freakin' let it go already.

And 100 years ago, my boys would have been dead and me along with them, due to medical complications. I'm afraid I don't really romanticize the Little House era, where many children died in gruesome accidents (at the farm or at the mill), never made it out of toddlerdom due to contagious disease, where men were allowed to beat and rape their wives and children with legal impunity, where children were expected to earn their keep and not all of them earned it at the farm--some earned it in sweltering mills and tenament cottage industries. I've read lots of homesteading diaries out of personal interest, and if there is a pervasive theme in those diaries and letters, it's that many women felt isolated and lonely and trapped, particularly in the winter months, even though there was always something to do (sound familiar, anyone?). Parents fought and sacrificed and scraped and saved FOR their children to be able to go to school. I guess nobody ever appreciates what they have. :P People now always seem to want to go back to the good old days, without really acknowledging that a lot of people in those good old days probably would trade places with them in a heart beat. No, I wouldn't have worried about my children's socialization back then if they weren't going to school, because I'd be pushing to have them work their butts off as soon as possible so that maybe they and we could survive, if not get ahead enough so that they could get a better education than me--at a school (whose object was not socialization).

I really wish sometimes we could just live and let live, appreciate where we are right now, and just love people where they are at without fantasizing about how we could do so much better in their shoes.
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I had twins 17 months after my daugher was born.

I can assure you, even as SAHM there were times when I:

*could not devote 100 percent of my time to my individual child
*was crabby
*was depressed
*was suffering from extreme fatigue
*occasionally went to great lengths to speak to another adult

I was much more patient, relaxed, and refreshed as a child care provider because I got a state-mandated break every 4 hours, I got to get uninterrupted sleep every night, ect.

If someone needs time apart from their children, I would MUCH rather they take it, than to try to live up to some ridiculous standard of Good Mother matyrdom that works for some people but would turn others into a snappish, grumpy, exhausted shell.

Nobody truly knows why another person does something. Talking about being depressed is scary for women to do amongst each other because everyone knows people are just waiting to rip you to shreds over not being good enough. As for saying she wants a baby, how would anyone know that she doesn't feel pressure from her husband or pastor/religious person or family? None of us know that--and sometimes that can be a very REAL pressure. Or people get scared about a transition, they don't know what to do with themselves when they don't have a baby or very young dependent child around (I'm having to work through that now myself).

For goodness sakes. I loved my kids when I was a nanny, and at my preschool. I kissed scrapes, I was peed on in the process of toilet training because the kiddo didn't want to get out of my lap because the loved the story I was reading, I have had sleepless nights helping to stay around the clock at the bedside of a toddler going through chemo--who wasn't mine. Golly gee, those other moms and I had no problem seeing how much we both loved those children.

What ridiculous things we do to dehumanize each other. We trash the working moms, the SAHMs who don't do things "right". We trash the women (who many times are also mothers, or will be) who care for other people's children. We trash our mothers, our MILs, the women before us. I'm going to bet probably some of us are going to trash our daughter and DILs when they don't do things "right" either.

Unless someone is abusing their child, I really wish people would just freakin' let it go already.

And 100 years ago, my boys would have been dead and me along with them, due to medical complications. I'm afraid I don't really romanticize the Little House era, where many children died in gruesome accidents (at the farm or at the mill), never made it out of toddlerdom due to contagious disease, where men were allowed to beat and rape their wives and children with legal impunity, where children were expected to earn their keep and not all of them earned it at the farm--some earned it in sweltering mills and tenament cottage industries. I've read lots of homesteading diaries out of personal interest, and if there is a pervasive theme in those diaries and letters, it's that many women felt isolated and lonely and trapped, particularly in the winter months, even though there was always something to do (sound familiar, anyone?). Parents fought and sacrificed and scraped and saved FOR their children to be able to go to school. I guess nobody ever appreciates what they have. :P People now always seem to want to go back to the good old days, without really acknowledging that a lot of people in those good old days probably would trade places with them in a heart beat. No, I wouldn't have worried about my children's socialization back then if they weren't going to school, because I'd be pushing to have them work their butts off as soon as possible so that maybe they and we could survive, if not get ahead enough so that they could get a better education than me--at a school (whose object was not socialization).

I really wish sometimes we could just live and let live, appreciate where we are right now, and just love people where they are at without fantasizing about how we could do so much better in their shoes.
Amen mama!
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by becoming View Post
Well, I can answer for myself. I send my kids to a two-day-a-week preschool at age 3 because I need a freaking break. My partner lives hundreds of miles from us more than half the time for work so, aside from preschool, I literally NEVER get a moment away from my kids and am the sole caregiver for them 24/7. I do keep them at home full-time until age 3, but after that, I have just got to have some time to breathe. As it is now, my 4-year-old is in two-day-a-week preschool, so I have just my 2-year-old on those days. You wouldn't believe how much it helps me recuperate to just have one child to take care of for a few hours instead of three. She may have similar feelings.
AMEN! Thank you for your honesty!!!!! My DD is almost 3, she is not in preschool yet but she will be in January, and the main reason is her socialization and so I get a break! My DH works all the time and I NEVER get a break!!
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
By the way, if I met someone who did what you describe in the OP, I would assume one of the following:

-She does some type of WAH business or distance learning that, for whatever reason, she hasn't mentioned to you.

-She has some kind of chronic health problem that she hasn't mentioned to you, which makes it harder for her to keep up with toddlers.
Another thing that could contribute to parent-burnout is a child with unidentified special needs or giftedness.

Our DD#1 was a huge handful for us, from nearly the moment she was born. We (both DH and I) always needed a break from her big, overwhelming personality. We hired nannies to help us out.

Later on, after she had been "asked to leave" 2 preschools for being WAY too rowdy... ...we visited a child psychologist and found out we had not only a DD with Aspergers, but also a highly gifted one at that.

NOW we understand what's been going on...
post #57 of 83
Our next door neighbors put their 2 yo in full time (40+ hrs per week) daycare at age 2, just because he was two. They have this very set idea that someone should be home, and the child should be at home until age 2, then something magical happens, and it is suddenly important that the child spend all day, five days a week in the company of similar aged kids, in a full time daycare environment, and they called it "school". The person who had been the at home caregiver, and remained at home, alone, for many months after he was in full time daycare, was totally offended when I mistakenly referred to it as daycare (like most people around here would). Never mind that the company running it (it's an onsite facility) refers to it as the "daycare center".

The neighbors are from the east coast. I have a friend who has moved out there, and she told me they were pressured by everyone they knew to have their kids in full time care once they were two, whether both parents were working or not. She experienced an attitude that it is essential for them to be spending their days in a setting with similar aged kids once they are two. She thought it was strange. I wonder if it's a regional idea ?

I don't dispute everyone's right to choose what works for them, whatever their reasons are. But I also exercise my own freedom to privately think it's odd to believe a 2 yo needs 40 hrs a week in a daycare facility, with no other reason for doing it, other than being two. Other reasons may make it make more sense to me - an overwhelmed, depressed, or really impatient parent at home, a high needs younger sibling, working from home, school from home (for the parent), etc. And yes, I get that it really doesn't matter what I think, etc. But it also really doesn't matter what I think about other parenting style choices.......and yet it's okay for me to have an opinion on those too, as well as this, as long as I don't go sharing it with the person in question or treating them harshly over the difference of ideas. Which I wouldn't, and I suspect the OP wouldn't either. But I will think it all I want and not feel a bit guilty about it ! Again, IMO it's nutty to see a 2 yo as needing 40 hrs a week in a daycare center for their own good, just for being two.

BTW our neighbors almost all think I'm crazy for homeschooling. I don't consider them or anyone to be truly judgmental about it until they share this opinion with me in a critical way, give me all their reasons why they think it's a bad idea and should not even be legal, and then discuss it in a harshly critical way with each other, a few feet from me, in loud voices to make sure I got it. All of which has been done. If they thought all these things privately, or even discussed it among themselves, but didn't bother me with it, I would not consider them to be judgmental.
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I had twins 17 months after my daugher was born.

I can assure you, even as SAHM there were times when I:

*could not devote 100 percent of my time to my individual child
*was crabby
*was depressed
*was suffering from extreme fatigue
*occasionally went to great lengths to speak to another adult

I was much more patient, relaxed, and refreshed as a child care provider because I got a state-mandated break every 4 hours, I got to get uninterrupted sleep every night, ect.

If someone needs time apart from their children, I would MUCH rather they take it, than to try to live up to some ridiculous standard of Good Mother matyrdom that works for some people but would turn others into a snappish, grumpy, exhausted shell.

Nobody truly knows why another person does something. Talking about being depressed is scary for women to do amongst each other because everyone knows people are just waiting to rip you to shreds over not being good enough. As for saying she wants a baby, how would anyone know that she doesn't feel pressure from her husband or pastor/religious person or family? None of us know that--and sometimes that can be a very REAL pressure. Or people get scared about a transition, they don't know what to do with themselves when they don't have a baby or very young dependent child around (I'm having to work through that now myself).

For goodness sakes. I loved my kids when I was a nanny, and at my preschool. I kissed scrapes, I was peed on in the process of toilet training because the kiddo didn't want to get out of my lap because the loved the story I was reading, I have had sleepless nights helping to stay around the clock at the bedside of a toddler going through chemo--who wasn't mine. Golly gee, those other moms and I had no problem seeing how much we both loved those children.

What ridiculous things we do to dehumanize each other. We trash the working moms, the SAHMs who don't do things "right". We trash the women (who many times are also mothers, or will be) who care for other people's children. We trash our mothers, our MILs, the women before us. I'm going to bet probably some of us are going to trash our daughter and DILs when they don't do things "right" either.

Unless someone is abusing their child, I really wish people would just freakin' let it go already.

And 100 years ago, my boys would have been dead and me along with them, due to medical complications. I'm afraid I don't really romanticize the Little House era, where many children died in gruesome accidents (at the farm or at the mill), never made it out of toddlerdom due to contagious disease, where men were allowed to beat and rape their wives and children with legal impunity, where children were expected to earn their keep and not all of them earned it at the farm--some earned it in sweltering mills and tenament cottage industries. I've read lots of homesteading diaries out of personal interest, and if there is a pervasive theme in those diaries and letters, it's that many women felt isolated and lonely and trapped, particularly in the winter months, even though there was always something to do (sound familiar, anyone?). Parents fought and sacrificed and scraped and saved FOR their children to be able to go to school. I guess nobody ever appreciates what they have. :P People now always seem to want to go back to the good old days, without really acknowledging that a lot of people in those good old days probably would trade places with them in a heart beat. No, I wouldn't have worried about my children's socialization back then if they weren't going to school, because I'd be pushing to have them work their butts off as soon as possible so that maybe they and we could survive, if not get ahead enough so that they could get a better education than me--at a school (whose object was not socialization).

I really wish sometimes we could just live and let live, appreciate where we are right now, and just love people where they are at without fantasizing about how we could do so much better in their shoes.
Thank you!
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I had twins 17 months after my daugher was born.

I can assure you, even as SAHM there were times when I:

*could not devote 100 percent of my time to my individual child
*was crabby
*was depressed
*was suffering from extreme fatigue
*occasionally went to great lengths to speak to another adult

I was much more patient, relaxed, and refreshed as a child care provider because I got a state-mandated break every 4 hours, I got to get uninterrupted sleep every night, ect.

If someone needs time apart from their children, I would MUCH rather they take it, than to try to live up to some ridiculous standard of Good Mother matyrdom that works for some people but would turn others into a snappish, grumpy, exhausted shell.

Nobody truly knows why another person does something. Talking about being depressed is scary for women to do amongst each other because everyone knows people are just waiting to rip you to shreds over not being good enough. As for saying she wants a baby, how would anyone know that she doesn't feel pressure from her husband or pastor/religious person or family? None of us know that--and sometimes that can be a very REAL pressure. Or people get scared about a transition, they don't know what to do with themselves when they don't have a baby or very young dependent child around (I'm having to work through that now myself).

For goodness sakes. I loved my kids when I was a nanny, and at my preschool. I kissed scrapes, I was peed on in the process of toilet training because the kiddo didn't want to get out of my lap because the loved the story I was reading, I have had sleepless nights helping to stay around the clock at the bedside of a toddler going through chemo--who wasn't mine. Golly gee, those other moms and I had no problem seeing how much we both loved those children.

What ridiculous things we do to dehumanize each other. We trash the working moms, the SAHMs who don't do things "right". We trash the women (who many times are also mothers, or will be) who care for other people's children. We trash our mothers, our MILs, the women before us. I'm going to bet probably some of us are going to trash our daughter and DILs when they don't do things "right" either.

Unless someone is abusing their child, I really wish people would just freakin' let it go already.

And 100 years ago, my boys would have been dead and me along with them, due to medical complications. I'm afraid I don't really romanticize the Little House era, where many children died in gruesome accidents (at the farm or at the mill), never made it out of toddlerdom due to contagious disease, where men were allowed to beat and rape their wives and children with legal impunity, where children were expected to earn their keep and not all of them earned it at the farm--some earned it in sweltering mills and tenament cottage industries. I've read lots of homesteading diaries out of personal interest, and if there is a pervasive theme in those diaries and letters, it's that many women felt isolated and lonely and trapped, particularly in the winter months, even though there was always something to do (sound familiar, anyone?). Parents fought and sacrificed and scraped and saved FOR their children to be able to go to school. I guess nobody ever appreciates what they have. :P People now always seem to want to go back to the good old days, without really acknowledging that a lot of people in those good old days probably would trade places with them in a heart beat. No, I wouldn't have worried about my children's socialization back then if they weren't going to school, because I'd be pushing to have them work their butts off as soon as possible so that maybe they and we could survive, if not get ahead enough so that they could get a better education than me--at a school (whose object was not socialization).

I really wish sometimes we could just live and let live, appreciate where we are right now, and just love people where they are at without fantasizing about how we could do so much better in their shoes.
Brilliant. Thanks for posting this!
post #60 of 83
Tigerchild, very well said!
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