H1N1/Swine Flu Vax - October '09

[amnesiac]

Starting our new thread for October!

[Juvysen]

Subbing.

[Penny4Them]

Sorry I posted in the wrong place before, ladies. I have a question about the general flu and this would probably apply to H1N1 too.

Does anyone have any info about the difference in antibody levels in breast milk b/t receiving the flu vax versus actually having the flu? I can't find any info about whether or not antibody activity is stronger, and better passed to a nursling, if mom actually has the flu. Does anyone know if nurslings of moms who get the flu vax get the antibodies via BM?

I looked on kellymom, CDC and UK's DH Web sites and couldn't find anything, so I'm wondering if you all have any info or insights you could share.

Thanks!
Penny

[nia82]

I have two slightly OT questions:

1) Where can I go to test for titers of the piggy flu? I was quite sick with a flu in June. 103 fevers... I never get fevers with colds, so I was thinking, maybe it was the swine flu? DS had a fever for two days, nursed a lot and then just had a cough for two days. Can we get tested somewhere, does anyone have experience with this?

2) DH has to get the swine flu mist, courtesy of the military. What vitamins and stuff do you recommend to help boosting his immune system? I was thinking sodium ascorbate, vitamin D3.... Anything else maybe?

[Fruitful4Him]

subbing

[Madders]

1) Where can I go to test for titers of the piggy flu? I was quite sick with a flu in June. 103 fevers... I never get fevers with colds, so I was thinking, maybe it was the swine flu? DS had a fever for two days, nursed a lot and then just had a cough for two days. Can we get tested somewhere, does anyone have experience with this?

I would like to know also. I had some type of flu last week, it lasted about three days. I had every symptom of the "swine flu", which is of course, the same as the regular flu except that this was much more mild and did not last a long as the other flu's I have had in the past.

[rabrog]

Is the swine flu vax the nasal mist or shot? What are they planning to push in the schools?

Jenn

[zoe196]

dr says vax more dangerous then swine flu

and that he won't give it to his kids...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw

amazed this was on Fox news

Zoe, mama to Thomas 1/06

[Noelle C.]

If this drug only went to clinical testing less than a month ago, which it did, I don't know that they've developed titer testing yet. FFS, they haven't come to a comple concensus on it this vax should be 1 shot or 2! Sheesh, the fear they put in us when the vax is the real cause for fear.

Find me someone with swine flu and I'll go share a soda with that person. It's milder than the regular flu, which I had last month. FFS, this fear-mongering needs to stop.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by nia82

2) DH has to get the swine flu mist, courtesy of the military. What vitamins and stuff do you recommend to help boosting his immune system? I was thinking sodium ascorbate, vitamin D3.... Anything else maybe?

If you dig around in the vaccinations forum, someone just posted the other day a way around flu mist in the military. Her DH asked if he could go to walgreens or something, get the injected version, and bring back the paperwork about it. His medical higher-ups agreed to it... so he still had the vax, just not the flu mist.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by nia82

I have two slightly OT questions:

1) Where can I go to test for titers of the piggy flu? I was quite sick with a flu in June. 103 fevers... I never get fevers with colds, so I was thinking, maybe it was the swine flu? DS had a fever for two days, nursed a lot and then just had a cough for two days. Can we get tested somewhere, does anyone have experience with this?

2) DH has to get the swine flu mist, courtesy of the military. What vitamins and stuff do you recommend to help boosting his immune system? I was thinking sodium ascorbate, vitamin D3.... Anything else maybe?

I would ask your doc to send you for a titre test....if you had a flu in June it is pretty safe to assume it was swine flu....if the CDC can assume they why can't you?! as for your DH...I would suggest he up his vitamin a c and d both (like mega doses a few days before and after and then increased doses for several weeks after. I would also tell him to coat his nasal passages with something slippery prior to the mist and then right afterwards blow his nose and dissolves3% hydrogen peroxide with some distilled water and do a netti pot...do this frequently for several days...

[rabrog]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I would ask your doc to send you for a titre test....if you had a flu in June it is pretty safe to assume it was swine flu

Someone answered above - there probably isn't a titre test for it yet. I totally agree, though...if you had it in June, you can be certain it was swine flu.

Jenn

[A&A]

Originally Posted by rabrog

Someone answered above - there probably isn't a titre test for it yet. I totally agree, though...if you had it in June, you can be certain it was swine flu.

Jenn

How about May? Still assume swine flu?

[stacey05]

I read this:

>Schuchat also addressed a CDC study released Wednesday that found that 33 percent of 77 deaths caused by the H1N1 flu resulted from bacterial pneumonia. The strain of bacteria in many cases -- streptococcus pneumonia -- is one for which there is a vaccine, she said, so adults should get the pneumococcal vaccine to prevent this complication. This holds true especially for people who have a chronic medical condition such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease and lung disease, she said.<

It was talking about pregnant women, but I am wondering if it pertains to children too. My kids have not had this vaccine (is this prevnar?) and I am wondering if they should get it? I never thought twice about it because I know it has a high rate of side effects, but the article above kinda worries me...especially since they are unvaccinated for this particular strain. This seems to be a complication of the swine flu that has caused some deaths...I wonder why so many (28) pregnant women have died from this?? I have not been worried about the h1n1 flu, and I don't want the vax for it, but I am concerned about this complication. Any thought?

[amnesiac]

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/diagnosti..._public_qa.htm

[guitarmama]

Originally Posted by stacey05

I read this:

>Schuchat also addressed a CDC study released Wednesday that found that 33 percent of 77 deaths caused by the H1N1 flu resulted from bacterial pneumonia. The strain of bacteria in many cases -- streptococcus pneumonia -- is one for which there is a vaccine, she said, so adults should get the pneumococcal vaccine to prevent this complication. This holds true especially for people who have a chronic medical condition such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease and lung disease, she said.<

It was talking about pregnant women, but I am wondering if it pertains to children too. My kids have not had this vaccine (is this prevnar?) and I am wondering if they should get it? I never thought twice about it because I know it has a high rate of side effects, but the article above kinda worries me...especially since they are unvaccinated for this particular strain. This seems to be a complication of the swine flu that has caused some deaths...I wonder why so many (28) pregnant women have died from this?? I have not been worried about the h1n1 flu, and I don't want the vax for it, but I am concerned about this complication. Any thought?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=agSkfeIV2ryg

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by guitarmama

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=agSkfeIV2ryg

So, they found IgG2 was deficient in some pregnant women. And treating them with IgG improves their condition.

This is a really informative site:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/IgGsubclasses/subkl4.htm

Since IgG2 is the predominant antibody isotype produced in response to some polysaccharide antigens, it is not surprising that patients with decreased IgG2 levels may have an impaired response to infections with encapsulated bacteria.

IgG2: In about half of all IgG subclass deficiencies the IgG2 concentrations are decreased. An isolated IgG2 deficiency is associated with decreased responses to infections with encapsulated bacteria and after immunisation with polysaccharide antigens

So I am wondering how a vaccine can help people with IgG2 deficiency. It looks like their humoral immune system is not responding adequately. Surely this means that people with who are IgG2 deficient would not respond to the vaccine? Ie they have a decreased response to pneumococci, meningococci and Haemophilus influenza type B (HiB) vaccines, the very vaccines that are recommended.

Ah, here is a partial answer:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/IgGsubclasses/subkl45.htm

In IgG2-deficient patients, only a marginal compensating mechanism exists, as illustrated by the impaired anti-polysaccharide response in all other immunoglobulin isotypes. This poor responsiveness can be partly bypassed by using conjugate-vaccines.
Nevertheless, it should be kept in mind that active vaccination procedures may fail, due to a deficient humoral immunity.

Now I am going to see what I can find on how IgG is produed.

[ema-adama]

http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrar...03/7/2705#REF8

For many years, innate immunity has been considered as a separate entity from the adaptive immune response and has been regarded to be of secondary importance in the hierarchy of immune functions.8-10 However, in recent years, evidence has been accumulating that the innate immune system may be the ultimate controller of adaptive responses.8

This is very interesting when it comes to thinking about how best to protect ourselves. It supports the idea that it is best to support a healthy inate immune system rather than rely on specific responses offered by vaccines.

The role of IgG2 in the immune response is looking interesting. As well as the factors around what depresses IgG2. Smoking is one of them, as is age and it looks like genetics has something to do with it. (hence the Native American population being more susepctible to encapsulated bacteria). I know most pregnant women do not smoke, but I do have friends who have smoked through their pregnancy or been in environmentts where people smoke. I wonder if the pregnant women who are suffering ccomplications are exposed to cigarette smoke?

[momma_unlimited]

2) DH has to get the swine flu mist, courtesy of the military. What vitamins and stuff do you recommend to help boosting his immune system? I was thinking sodium ascorbate, vitamin D3.... Anything else maybe?

You may look into the homeopathic remedy thuja. It can be taken after vaccination to reduce side effects from the vaccine.

If you dig around in the vaccinations forum, someone just posted the other day a way around flu mist in the military. Her DH asked if he could go to walgreens or something, get the injected version, and bring back the paperwork about it. His medical higher-ups agreed to it... so he still had the vax, just not the flu mist.

If you did this, I would check into whether or not they are giving single dose or multi dose shots. The single dose, from what I read on Dr. Sear's, contains no mercury, while the multi-dose contains 25 mcg of it. I'd almost think the mist is safer, nothing is being injected directly into your bloodstream...anyone think differently?

[NatrlCatholicMama]

I saw the seriously paranoid headline "H1N1 kills moms-to-be" on foxnews.com today, and looked into the article. It says 1/3 of pregnant women hospitalized with H1N1 die. It does not say what percentage of non-pregnant people hospitalized with H1N1 die, and does say they don't know how this percentage compares with pregnant women hospitalized with other strains of the flu. And, of course, like the general population, most pg women will simply have a very mild flu and never be hospitalized.

I was really grateful for the link in this thread, which explains *why* some pg women are susceptible to H1N1 - IgG2 deficiency. I'd love more info on whether it's true that this deficiency would render the swine flu vaccine useless, and on what causes, prevents, & treats this deficiency. I haven't been able to dig it up.

I assume a lot of us may get forwarded this article - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,559062,00.html - so I think a discussion on this particular "complication" of the swine flu would be really helpful!

As for me (7mo pg), I'm fairly certain two of my children had "swine flu" two weeks ago. They had typical flu symptoms (fever, malaise, joint/muscle aches, headache, fatigue, some cough), but extremely mild. Instead of feeling like they'd been run over by a truck, they just laid on the couch feeling somewhat bad, alternating with feeling perfectly fine, for 2.5 days. I pumped them full of vitamin C, and the rest of us, too, and took raw garlic when I got a headache, which went away fairly quickly. I never felt any other symptoms. Dh had a fever overnight, but the garlic he took before going to bed got rid of it all by morning.

ETA The article now says the CDC knows of 700 H1N1 cases in pregnant women, but of course, since they've been saying for months not to go to the doctor or be tested for H1N1 unless there's an emergency, we can assume there have been many times this many cases of pg women getting it and not being hospitalized.