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H1N1/Swine Flu Vax - October '09 - Page 9

post #161 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopesmommy View Post
What about the fact that flu season is not anywhere near over yet? It seems to me that as more people become infected and more people die, this could turn out to have much higher numbers than seasonal flu related deaths in the past several years.

Is anyone taking that into account? I know that around here, so many people have the flu right now. I watch for influenza every year due to my son's health issues, and I've never seen so many people infected with the flu at once.
I think it is likely that more people will get sick with the flu this year than in an average year, and plausible that more will die than in an average year.

The thing that was striking to me, was that while the amount of flu circulating early in the year was much, much higher than was typical for Aug/Sept, death rates due to flu/pneumonia were, for most of Aug & Sept, still fairly normal. I'll see if I can find the old weekly updates from CDC, that's where I read that....

All I could find was the posts where I copied/pasted from CDC's site. They update the site weekly, and while the graphs from past weeks are there, I couldn't find the summaries.

But from my links below, both weeks said that hospitalizations were higher than normal for this time of year, but within the typical range of seasonal hospitalization rates, and both said that flu/pneumonia deaths were within range for this time of year, which is significant given that flu is usually barely around in Aug/Sept.


http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...=#post14421374

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...=#post14436751

So I think one of the decisions that CDC should actually be focusing on, to help people decide whether they want to be vaccinated, is that there's a lot higher likelihood of people getting the flu this year than most, and therefore, does an individual want to be vaccinated this year? But that's putting aside regions that have already had weeks of high flu activity, because combined with vaccine availability, a lot of people may already have had the flu by the time a vaccine is available to them. Some of the southern states seem to be either plateauing or dropping in influenza infections.
post #162 of 635
Some hospitals in this area will not be giving the h1n1 flumist, as they don't want to infect those w/ compromised immune systems.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...55/detail.html

I think the map on the cdc page is decieving. When I checked out the "widespread" in my area-it was 17 cases, that's it. There are a lot of people in my county.

Tanya, I agree. I'm sure many people have prob already had the flu, just not known it, so the cdc does need to figure out some system so people can find out if they had it or not. There prob will be more people w/ the flu this year.

DOK-have you read who the flumist is recommended/not recommended for? I thought it said it shouldn't be given to those w/ compromised immunity or people w/ breathing problems.

The healthcare workers in Washington state are also suing against mandatory vaccine. They are in the same boat as NY. I just saw the article today.
post #163 of 635
Is anyone thinking of getting the pneumovax for themselves or their kids to help prevent pneumonia? Also, I have a completely unvaxed toddler and wondering now if I should get him prevnar or hib? I don't think I want the
h1n1 vax, although I don't know much about it?
post #164 of 635
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post #165 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
Is anyone thinking of getting the pneumovax for themselves or their kids to help prevent pneumonia? Also, I have a completely unvaxed toddler and wondering now if I should get him prevnar or hib? I don't think I want the
h1n1 vax, although I don't know much about it?
I'd like more info about this. I saw there was another thread in this forum that asked about HiB and H1N1. Someone provided links to a couple media reports that talked about pnuemoccocal complications. I thought the 7 strains covered by the current Prevnar are no longer the most prevalent strains. Are kids who are having secondary pneumoccocal infections actually being infected by the strains in Prevnar? If not, then it seems Prevnar would not be helpful.
post #166 of 635
We had a link earlier that had the flu/pneumonia numbers by each year. I do not know if it stated what strain they had. You could compare the numbers from this year so far to other years to see if they were similar or not though.

? if this is helpful-after my ds 2nd prevnar he had a week of high fevers, diarhea, coughing, and was not himself, he was pretty sick. He also had double ear infections. We stopped vaxing at this point.
post #167 of 635
Any good videos or articles on the dangers of the H1N1 and flu vaxes, especially for children and pregnant women...convincing, legit, and solid?
post #168 of 635
I'm not sure about CDC stats. I feel so terrible for families that lost kids but my mind keeps going back to the eho "polio outbreak" & their facts.
Many, many "polio cases" were actually GBS - like FDR.
It has still never been explained why whole familes (kids) did NOT come down with polio ? If it's so contagious.... right? aren't we told how crazy contagiuos it is?
My Mom had TRUE polio ( 1 limb much smaller ) & they were poor, she was not in a hospital but at home w/ several sibs from 18 mos-5 yrs olderthat her. This was way before the vax. The kids shared 2 bdrms & 1 bath.
No one else got polio. This was a common scenario.
IDK. Being close to 50, I've seen such a change (good & bad) in our medical community.
post #169 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanHippie View Post
If she seems prone to ear infections, she should be seeing a chiro regularly for adjustments. It will drastically help. Also, are you taking the recommended dosages of Vitamin D? As a breastfeeding mom (DS is 27mo), I take 10,000 IUs a day per Dr Eisenstein's recommendations. Other breastfeeding moms on MDC have said they take 5,000 IUs per day. Vit D is proven to boost the immune system.

Edited to add: If you do vaccinate her against H1N1, you do run the risk of lowering her immune system during flu season which is opening her up to catching a million other germs.
Thank you for the helpful information. Vitamin D here I come!

mommytoban
post #170 of 635
Thank you so much for the helpful information! I am leaning toward not doing the H1N1 vaccine and doing more natural alternatives!

mommytoban
post #171 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by polka123 View Post
I'm not sure about CDC stats. I feel so terrible for families that lost kids but my mind keeps going back to the eho "polio outbreak" & their facts.
Many, many "polio cases" were actually GBS - like FDR.
It has still never been explained why whole familes (kids) did NOT come down with polio ? If it's so contagious.... right? aren't we told how crazy contagiuos it is?
My Mom had TRUE polio ( 1 limb much smaller ) & they were poor, she was not in a hospital but at home w/ several sibs from 18 mos-5 yrs olderthat her. This was way before the vax. The kids shared 2 bdrms & 1 bath.
No one else got polio. This was a common scenario.
IDK. Being close to 50, I've seen such a change (good & bad) in our medical community.
Could it be the siblings simply had asymptomatic infections? I forget the exact number but a large % of people who got polio actually didn't get any symptoms at all. Perhaps your mom was more susceptible to complications for some reason than the siblings? Just a thought here, unless the mother was careful to keep them separated during this time.
post #172 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by polka123 View Post
Many, many "polio cases" were actually GBS - like FDR.
Would that be Guilliain-Barre Syndrome or Group B Strep (can you tell I'm pregnant? )? I'd love more info on this, linkie, anything!

Quote:
Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post
Could it be the siblings simply had asymptomatic infections? I forget the exact number but a large % of people who got polio actually didn't get any symptoms at all.
Yes, this is called "having a strong immune system." Prior to the 20th century, polio was endemic, and still is in many parts of the world. That means it was a microbe that was just everywhere - in the soil, etc. All children were exposed to it as a natural part of their environment very, very young. I've read in some pretty mainstream sources that what caused the American "epidemic" was hygiene. We stopped being exposed to it very, very young, and were exposed later in childhood, and (can't remember the reason, maybe as simple as being weaned and thus, no longer getting mama's antibodies?) that later childhood exposure resulted in greater susceptibility to being overcome by it. (This also makes tons of sense in the Weston Price view of things - by this time, many of us were eating processed food and would no longer be able to resist simple diseases as easily.)

Similar thing with chicken pox - my recent readings have suggested that while it has always been primarily children who got it, hundreds of years ago, "coming down with it" was by no means universal, even as benign a "disease" as it nearly always is. I theorize that most children had strong enough immune systems to resist it, but the advent of industrialized food, again, led to it being not just universally exposed, but universally caught.

Some scientists like to call people who are exposed, make antibodies, but resist the disease "carriers." I think they're more accurately called "healthy."

Same thing with this "swine flu." Two children and an adult in our home seem very likely to have had it, two children and an adult didn't. Those who did fought it off quickly and easily with vitamin C and raw garlic. I'm sure we were all exposed; some fought it off without needing the great purge that we call flu symptoms, and some purged off what was needed and then were able to fight it off.

Exposure does not = illness. As Pasteur is said to have lamented on his death bed, "The microbe is nothing. Terrain is everything!"
post #173 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post
Would that be Guilliain-Barre Syndrome or Group B Strep (can you tell I'm pregnant? )? I'd love more info on this, linkie, anything!
Guillain-Barre Syndrome I always think "group b strep," too. Here's a link on FDR... http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/31...eut/index.html


There's also some discussion that some of the "polio" cases may have been related to DDT or other pesticides...
post #174 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom View Post
We had a link earlier that had the flu/pneumonia numbers by each year. I do not know if it stated what strain they had. You could compare the numbers from this year so far to other years to see if they were similar or not though.

I found this report on the CDC site - it's for the week ending Oct. 3.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

In the section called "Influenza-Associate Pediatric Mortality" it says:

[QUOTE/]Nineteen influenza-associated pediatric deaths were reported to CDC during week 39 (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Maryland [2], North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee [3], Texas [7], and Wisconsin). Sixteen of these deaths were associated with 2009 influenza A (H1N1) virus infection and three were associated with influenza A virus, for which subtype is undetermined. These deaths occurred between July 19 and October 3, 2009. Since September 28, 2008, CDC has received 147 reports of influenza-associated pediatric deaths that occurred during the current influenza season (28 deaths in children less than 2 years, 15 deaths in children 2-4 years, 45 deaths in children 5-11 years, and 59 deaths in individuals 12-17 years). Seventy-six of the 147 deaths were due to 2009 influenza A (H1N1) virus infections, and 29 of these have occurred since August 30, 2009.

Of the 66 children who had specimens collected for bacterial culture from normally sterile sites, 23 (34.8%) were positive; Staphylococcus aureus was identified in 16 (69.6%) of the 23 children. Six of the S. aureus isolates were sensitive to methicillin, nine were methicillin resistant, and one did not have sensitivity testing performed. Twenty-one (91.3%) of the 23 children with bacterial coinfections were five years of age or older and 15 (65.2%) of the 23 children were 12 years of age or older. Thirty-two (42.1%) of the 76 children with confirmed 2009 influenza A (H1N1) infection had a specimen collected from a normally sterile site; nine (28.1%) of the 32 children had a positive bacterial culture; seven of which were positive for S. aureus. Two of the S. aureus isolates were sensitive to methicillin, four were methicillin resistant, and one did not have sensitivity testing performed. Other bacteria identified include Streptococcus constellatus, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Streptococcus, and Enterococcus. [/QUOTE]


While there doesn't seem to be info about all the kids' secondary-infection status, I'm not seeing mention of HiB or Pc....or am I reading this wrong?

ETA: oops. forgot that "streptococcus" was Pc (was looking for the word "pnuemococcus")...anyone know if these specific streptococcus strains are in Prevnar?
post #175 of 635
>anyone know if these specific streptococcus strains are in Prevnar? <

The specific strains in prevnar are S. pnuemonia. There are 7 and they have different numbers. They are strains 4, 6B, 9V, 14, 18C, 19F, and 23F. It doesn't include staph. or group A strep. It also doesn't include the 19A strain which I have seen as a cause of death with h1n1. I wonder if you don't see the prevnar strains because kids have been vaccinated. But, of course, if they are older than 8ish, then they wouldn't have been vaccinated with prevnar and wouldn't we be seeing some of the prevnar strains in them? Unless, those aren't around as much anymore because of prevnar?
post #176 of 635
They're talking about the safety of the H1N1 vaccine on NPR's Talk of the Nation right now. FWIW.

ETA... it's apparently just Dr. Offit on there... seems like he's the only one on TOTN for vaccines
post #177 of 635
well, gosh, after researching pnuemonia vaxes and the h1n1 vax and wondering what I am going to do...vax or not, I just found out that we have swine flu in our house right now. I am not sure if what my older kids had a week ago was it or not, but my 8 yo and 11 yo and myself have it for sure. My 8yo is better except a cough and my 11 yo is still sick with it. Fevers, headache, body aches, cough, sore throat, runny nose/congestion, loss of appetite, etc. We took my 11 yo in to get an official diagnosis..they swabbed her and told my dh it was the flu and 99% sure swine flu because that is what they are seeing here at the military hospital. I am trying not to worry and realize they will get through this...I am giving vitamin C, D3, and zinc. The bad thing is I have to treat my 11yo with motrin because her headache is so bad with this..her fever is only around 100. I hate treating fevers that are lower than 103 because I think it helps fight the infection. I am about 6 weeks pregnant and a little worried about having the flu in the first trimester...they want me to come in and get tamiflu and they gave some to my 11yo. I have read bad stuff about the side effects of tamiflu. Anyway, I am thinking we will be immune now and won't need the h1n1 vax anyway. Is that correct? I am praying if my 2yo gets it, it will be a mild case.
post #178 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
little worried about having the flu in the first trimester...they want me to come in and get tamiflu and they gave some to my 11yo. I have read bad stuff about the side effects of tamiflu. Anyway, I am thinking we will be immune now and won't need the h1n1 vax anyway. Is that correct?
Yep - once you've had swine flu you no longer would need vaccine. You will have natural immunity which is far superior to artificial immunity. Your baby will also have immunity (lasting approx 6 months) transferred via placenta before birth, and will continue as long as you breastfeed to some extent.

Do keep us posted about your illness being you are 6 weeks pregnant, I am sure other pregnant women will want to know how you fared.

I have read some things about viral illness in pregnancy in 1st trimester, regarding vitamin A (be sure you get plenty during this important time) - it is not the viral infection you have to fear but the fact that some infections wipe the body out of vitamin A and it is the vit. A deficiency during this time that can cause potential problems for baby. (this was regarding rubella and not influenza) .. but I thought I'd pass the info along for your own research because if it were me, I'd want to be on the safe side and be sure I was not low on vit A for any infectious viral illness during this time. Get your A from natural sources, as it is the synthetic A that can be harmful if overdosed. Research it, cause its been over a year that I've read about it.

Let us know how the 2 year old fares as well (still breastfeeding?)
post #179 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
well, gosh, after researching pnuemonia vaxes and the h1n1 vax and wondering what I am going to do...vax or not, I just found out that we have swine flu in our house right now. I am not sure if what my older kids had a week ago was it or not, but my 8 yo and 11 yo and myself have it for sure. My 8yo is better except a cough and my 11 yo is still sick with it. Fevers, headache, body aches, cough, sore throat, runny nose/congestion, loss of appetite, etc. We took my 11 yo in to get an official diagnosis..they swabbed her and told my dh it was the flu and 99% sure swine flu because that is what they are seeing here at the military hospital. I am trying not to worry and realize they will get through this...I am giving vitamin C, D3, and zinc. The bad thing is I have to treat my 11yo with motrin because her headache is so bad with this..her fever is only around 100. I hate treating fevers that are lower than 103 because I think it helps fight the infection. I am about 6 weeks pregnant and a little worried about having the flu in the first trimester...they want me to come in and get tamiflu and they gave some to my 11yo. I have read bad stuff about the side effects of tamiflu. Anyway, I am thinking we will be immune now and won't need the h1n1 vax anyway. Is that correct? I am praying if my 2yo gets it, it will be a mild case.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery for you and your family! I appreciate all the help you've given me in my vax research.
post #180 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
Fevers, headache, body aches, cough, sore throat, runny nose/congestion, loss of appetite, etc.
This is exactly what we had. Plus extreme exhaustion. I had completely forgotten the "loss of appetite" bit, but I really didn't have any appetite for about 3-4 days.

It was quite mild in our house. We all had it, including my 18 month old and 3.5 year old. No one got really sick. I had it the worst. The 3 year old had a runny nose, mild fever (~100 F), and seemed tired for a few days. The 18 month old had a crusty nose a couple days with some fussiness and that was IT for him! My husband only felt the body aches and exhaustion - don't think he even had a fever.

I hope everyone in your clan gets a mild case only!
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