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H1N1/Swine Flu Vax - October '09 - Page 3  

post #41 of 635
Yes, I absolutely feel like the world has gone mad. The propaganda is astounding, and I can't believe how the media is so irresponsibly feeding it.

I have a friend whose entire family caught the (seasonal) flu 2 days after she gave birth. Everyone, including her, EXCEPT the newborn, caught it. Her newborn was protected via her antibodies. That doesn't happen with the vaccine.

I'm 7mo pregnant. I want my baby to have the antibodies when (s)he emerges in two months in the midst of flu season. I have no intention of using myself and my baby as guinea pigs for an untested vaccine. Regardless of whether H1N1 hits pregnant women harder, I will not be getting this or any flu vaccine. I am interested, however, in learning more about the IgG2 deficiency, its causes, prevention, and treatment.

H1N1 first stirred up paranoia b/c it seemed to hit "healthy young people" harder. A look further into that finds that 2/3 of those who died have epilepsy, cerebral palsy, or another neurodevelopmental condition. These aren't the typical conditions you think of when thinking "immune-deficient" - for instance, children with cancer, active chemotherapy, HIV/AIDS, etc. - but they are associated with certain nutrient deficiencies, nutrients which are crucial to a strong immune response. Since the IgG2 deficiency extends to the general population with severe H1N1, that seems much more important to be looking at than pregnancy itself. Much more effective, too, than throwing the entire population into a panic with headlines like "H1N1 Kills Moms-to-Be." Root cause - what is wrong with our scientists at the CDC that they can't focus on the scientific method to hit the root cause, rather than throwing Merck at every problem?
post #42 of 635
I would also like to know which states are saying NO to mandatory vaccinations.. I am pretty sure Illinois is one, but I dont know what the others are... If FL happens to be one of them, I would be very relieved!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post
On the video on this page it mentions that "38 states are implementing mandatory vaccination programs."

http://www.infowars.com/we-are-chang...y-vaccination/

Does anyone know a link that lists which 38 states those are (or perhaps a shorter list of the 12 states that said NO to mandatory vaccination programs)?
post #43 of 635
newmum, where did it talk about vaccinations being mandatory in 38 states? I only heard that vaccinations will be voluntary...
post #44 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post

H1N1 first stirred up paranoia b/c it seemed to hit "healthy young people" harder. A look further into that finds that 2/3 of those who died have epilepsy, cerebral palsy, or another neurodevelopmental condition. These aren't the typical conditions you think of when thinking "immune-deficient" - for instance, children with cancer, active chemotherapy, HIV/AIDS, etc. - but they are associated with certain nutrient deficiencies, nutrients which are crucial to a strong immune response. Since the IgG2 deficiency extends to the general population with severe H1N1, that seems much more important to be looking at than pregnancy itself. Much more effective, too, than throwing the entire population into a panic with headlines like "H1N1 Kills Moms-to-Be." Root cause - what is wrong with our scientists at the CDC that they can't focus on the scientific method to hit the root cause, rather than throwing Merck at every problem?
Which nutrient deficiencies?

I'd also like to know about the IgG2 deficiency and how to combat that...
post #45 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen78fl View Post
newmum, where did it talk about vaccinations being mandatory in 38 states? I only heard that vaccinations will be voluntary...
At 1:13 into the video I linked to above is a black screen with white text on it that says

Quote:
Capt Rayond Strikas was asked about mandatory N1N1 vaccination concerns and did verify that local and state authorities will decide on mandatory vaccinations, not the Federal Government.
So get involved in your community NOW if you do not want mandatory vaccinations but instead the freedom to make this decision for yourself. 38 states are implementing mandatory vaccination programs right now. Colorado is one of the states that did NOT agree to mandatory vaccinations.
I think we all know by now that Massachusetts and NY are among those 38 states. I THINK Illinois as well as PA are in the 12 "safe states" list along with Colorado (not positive though... would be nice to see an official list somewhere)
post #46 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post
Does anyone else feel like this world has gone mad? All this mass hysteria over the FLU. OMG!!!

I don't mean to be offensive to people who have lost loved ones or suffered horribly from the flu, or to people who are seriously weighing risks and benefits of the flu/H1N1 vaccines. But I have to say that when I was growing up, the flu was something you got every once in a while, felt rotten, then got better. It still is like that, until you turn on the news.
Oh, absolutely. Without a doubt that's how I feel and most in my family, of which there are a LOT of older folk (many in their 60's or older) all of which have never had a flu vaccine in their life (myself included) and we're all here doing just fine.

A few years ago when the "We're going to recommend mandatory flu vaccines for all healthy children up to age 18" came out, it just blew me away. I thought, "Has this world gone mad?" Now I see that it has indeed. Now only during the swine flu propaganda craze I finally realize, if we want to snap our world back to sanity, WE ALL have to make it happen. Its not going happen any other way. Those who screwed up are not going to suddenly say Oops, I think things were better before, lets undo those laws.

Unfortunately, we all have some work to do becoming more involved and helping to educate those who aren't. There is power in numbers. Those in a position of authority have abused their power for too long and it is getting worse every year. Requiring mandatory flu shots in order to keep your job? That is only the beginning. It will get worse if we do not put a stop to this right now.
post #47 of 635
US Judge Rules Against Compulsory Vaccinations

Someone just posted this on one of my yahoo lists. link
I'm wondering if this might help for those who are going to lose their jobs because of not vaccing?

Pollyanna
another link
post #48 of 635
A little off topic, but I wonder what the zinc levels are like for women who are IgG2 deficient. And it would be interesting to know if zinc levels affect how well people respond to vaccines.

http://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&sou...dHvUCWSJ_evxRw

Quote:
Immunobiology of gestational zinc deficiency

Zinc deficiency during pregnancy provokes similar symptoms and increased susceptibility to infections as does zinc deficiency in non-pregnant adults. However,
infections might be more prolonged or severe due to physiological pregnancy-related metabolic and hormonal changes (Favier, 1992). Zinc supplementation at the end of
pregnancy has only a weak effect on mothers' zinc status but, if administered during the first trimester, serum zinc increases after supplementation (Favier, 1992). Therefore,an early recognition and correction of zinc deficiency during pregnancy are necessary. In a recent study, Caulfield et al. showed, that continuous daily zinc supplementation in pregnant women, started at week 10±24 of gestation and continued until 4 weeks after delivery, leads to increased serum zinc concentrations in the mother and increased
cord zinc concentration in the neonate (Caulfield et al. 1999a).
This is a very interesting article altogether - also on how zinc plays such an important role in the development of the immune system in utero and for the neonate. Babies born to zinc deficient mothers have IgG2 deficiencies. This study is on mice btw.

However, back to the vaccine. Does anyone have a link on why the vaccine cannot offer immunity through breastmilk. I wonder how Dr Sears can be so sure of that.

It is mentioned in this article that a zinc deficiency impacts negatively on the response to vaccination, in mice.
post #49 of 635
I completely agree, Magali!
I too often think "Yeah.. ok, it's the flu...and?" when somebody makes a big drama out of it! Like you said, when growing up that's how it was and one got over it eventually after a few days. I'm sure even back 25+ years (some) people died of it unfortunately.. but over the past years it's been really turned into something more horrible than it is..
(Not wanting to say it's 'nothing', of course, and I'm sorry for everyone who lost a loved one to the flu! I don't mean to be disrespectful here...)

I think that's the main reason why I never got any vaxes against the flu after I was able to make my own decision.. I'll rather take my chances of getting the flu and having a healthy body fighting it than getting some kind of man-made stuff pumped into my system...
post #50 of 635
How long does it take an injunction to pass in the courts? I don't know if that would protect peoples jobs though. I'm not sure who that works as far as rights in the medical system.

Jen78fl-Back in April/May Florida submitted thier mandatory sheet to the cdc, it's on file there, if mandation does come into play. The link is in the Sept thread, I can try to find it for you if you'd like. There is a former Lt. here taking Charlie Christ and some others to court over madating the vax here in Fl.

As far as the Imm G-just for some thought. My son had an underlying medical condition when we all caught the flu in Jan-he was hospitalized because he was worse off-due to already being sick. His Imm G was in the normal range. What was off were his Absolute Monocytes and Eosinophiles, Imm A and Imm E. We believe he has an immunity problem, compromised via vaccines, so I won't let any vax near him at all.

The world has definately gone crazy. Any time there is a new health threat, the media hypes it up. Facts get lost and I think more people get hurt or sick that way. I read the Dr Sears opinion too on this, and he says to wait until the reports come out-which is well after flu season is over. They have no idea what this will do to pregnancy or the fetus
post #51 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post
However, back to the vaccine. Does anyone have a link on why the vaccine cannot offer immunity through breastmilk. I wonder how Dr Sears can be so sure of that.
It is the same way that a mother who has the flu and passes immunity onto her infant through breast milk-- the antigen in the vaccine stimulates antibodies production. The immunity provided might not be as long lasting, but while it lasts, is the same strength, so to speak.

Antibodies can cross the placenta and are received through colostrum and breastmilk. Although certain antibodies cross the placenta more easily then others. Antibodies to influenza have been shown to have poor transmission across the placenta... but it wouldn't be less from the mother being sick vs. the vaccine. Weak transmission across the placenta is weak transmission.

re through breastmilk: again, certain antigens are passed readily (for instance, against e. coli), others are more difficult. And it isn't clear what is destroyed in the digestive tract of the baby and what is absorbed. And the memory cells aren't passed on-so the immunity that the infant acquires from the breastmilk is always temporary because their own immune system doesn't develop a memory of the antigen (for example through T cells).

So perhaps he means that it there is no guarantee that immunity is passed on, and if so it is just a "protection against" rather then true immunity.
post #52 of 635
The video listed is the only place I can find anything about "38 states compulsory vas" so I think someone pulled a number out of the air to scare people. There's the so called mandatory vaxing for healthcare workers in some states that people are fighting but nothing for other workers (thus far) that I can find anywhere.

Jenn
post #53 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamom View Post
I got a kick out of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXmw5a9kiM
.
post #54 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamom View Post
I got a kick out of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXmw5a9kiM
Oh my gosh this video was incredible! Thanks for sharing it
post #55 of 635
The flu ran through our house a month ago (early September) but it was not respiratory like so many say it is. We had vomiting and diarrhea but no coughing. It came on FAST and hard too. My 7 year old said he didn’t feel good, and 4 hours later he was in the ER for severe dehydration hooked up to IVs and anti nausea medications. The good thing was it didn’t last long.

I called the ER to ask if it was indeed the H1F1 flu and the RN said yes, it most likely was however my aunt has it now and was tested and she says its primarily respiratory and not intestinal and says we probably did not have it. I was also watching a video with the CDC Pentagon representative who said they have not found the virus in the gut; it has not been excreted in the feces. Well, what we had was thriving quite well in our guts!

According to that google link, it shows Michigan has a high incidence of this flu so do I assume we had it or not?

Trisha
post #56 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
US Judge Rules Against Compulsory Vaccinations

Someone just posted this on one of my yahoo lists. link
I'm wondering if this might help for those who are going to lose their jobs because of not vaccing?
There's a post at the bottom of this link that says it's a false article, with a link to a retraction of the article at another site:
http://www.naturalnews.com/026818_va...u_vaccine.html

Edited to add, see post #58 below. Apparently it DOES exist, just hasn't gone through yet. Fingers crossed...
post #57 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmel23 View Post
It is the same way that a mother who has the flu and passes immunity onto her infant through breast milk-- the antigen in the vaccine stimulates antibodies production. The immunity provided might not be as long lasting, but while it lasts, is the same strength, so to speak.
I appreciate the theory of how immunity is passed on through breastmilk, but I am not aware of any studies that actually show this happening for influenza post vaccination. I am also aware that the immunity passed on is passive and not active for a virus like measles. I would be very surprised if the transfer of antibodies via the placenta and the breastmilk were the "same way" as if a mother had had the flu. Hence my curiosity that someone can say something so definitively. For some reason I cannot get the Sears website to load for me, so I cannot read what he has said.

In order for the whole theory to work, the mother would have the be producing antibodies, and we don't know that pregnant women do. And we would have to be sure that antibodies are the sole factor in predicting how a person responds to the disease. And that is definitly not the case. Antibodies are not the sole measure for immunity.

It's all rather theoretical at this point. With a surprising lack of evidence to support the theory.
post #58 of 635
Quote:
There's a post at the bottom of this link that says it's a false article, with a link to a retraction of the article at another site:
http://redirectingat.com/?id=848X156...u_vaccine.html
Quote:
This case DOES exist, and I was able to pull up (through PACER) the following docket report. Preliminary Injunction has definitely been filed (see Item #2 on the docket), but not granted, YET. Hearing on the Preliminary Injunction has been scheduled for Sept. 19, 2009.
this is from the posts at the bottom of that article that you posted

Pollyanna
post #59 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
this is from the posts at the bottom of that article that you posted

Pollyanna
Great! I will edit my post above. I hope they do it. Anything that gets the doors re-opened is good. So many freedoms are quietly disappearing lately. The trend is bad...
post #60 of 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post
Antibodies are not the sole measure for immunity.
no but there is research demonstrating that the mother's antibodies can be found in cord blood (so there is some evidence of what part of the mother's immune system effects baby before birth):

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/29466?search[article_text]=&search[authors_text]=Miller%2C+rachel

In this study they could measure the flu antibodies in the cord blood of the infants post birth.
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Mothering › Forums › Health › Vaccinations › H1N1/Swine Flu Vax - October '09