Getting worse before getting better?

[fastyfeet]

DD is 5.5 mos old. I was off dairy and chocolate when she was 2-4 mos, which seemed to help her spitting up and discomfort. I went back on at the same time she cut her first teeth, went through a growth spurt, mastered new skills, etc, which impacted her sleep and poop. I couldn't unravel if it was the dairy or the excessive drooling that was causing it.

At 5 months, she cut her next two teeth and started developing red patches on her cheeks, just very small. DS had eczema on his shoulder and bright red cheeks which went away after eliminating dairy. So DD's cheeks made me nervous.

I went off dairy about 2 weeks ago. In the last week, DD's cheeks have gone from little red spots to full on red over all the cheeks and connecting to the chin. They are dry. Her spitting up seems to be okay- maybe one big one a day. Her poops are almost always green and often mucousy. She's gnawing all the time so maybe working on another tooth.

I have begun taking B supplements along with my prenatal and vit d. She gets probiotics. I started the vit b about 1.5 weeks ago.

Sleep has gone from her waking every 3-4 hours, then 2-3 hours, and now we're at every hour. I'm exhausted.

Since her cheeks have flared up, I have gone off of chocolate, coffee, peanut butter, soy, and coconut (all the things I eat a lot of). The last big one that I'm holding off on is wheat. I'm feeling very confused by the cheeks.

I guess my questions are: can things get worse before they get better? Would eliminating those foods somehow trigger the red cheeks? Should I keep on eliminating foods?

Thank you for any direction and advice!

[kjbrown92]

It sounds to me like there's still an unidentified food in there. I don't see how eliminating foods would make things worse, unless you are eating MORE of the unidentified trigger food. Can you write a food journal and see if you can connect any dots?

While you were off the dairy/chocolate for the 2 months before, did you do any gut healing or nutrient changes during that time?

Unfortunately, it usually takes at least 6 months for the gut to heal from the inflammation of food intolerances, and it gives the immune system a chance to reset itself (this is from a GI doctor that we went to for DD2).

My DS used to get the bright red cheeks from soy. But DD2 used to get the bright red cheeks from apples. So it can be any food. Corn and gluten are the two biggies that it sounds like are still in your diet.

Does she wake up with red cheeks, or do they start after you BF her?
Is she on solids as well?
Have you checked the ingredients on all of your supplements?

[fastyfeet]

Thanks for your response. What I'm confused about is why the cheeks are starting now and haven't been an issue before.

I started probiotics during the first elimination period.

Cheeks start out less inflamed during the day and become more inflamed as the day goes on. They become redder after bf which makes me think food intolerance vs environmental.

Checked the supplements and all seem okay. No solids yet. I'm not going there until I figure this out.

Is the issue with wheat the gluten or are those two separate things to avoid?

Thank you for your help. I'm feeling a bit desperate.

[kjbrown92]

Let me just say "any food can cause any symptom".
With my kids, if I take something out of their diet, and then reintroduce, the odds are high that the symptoms are different than the ones they had. DS went from projectile vomiting from milk, to screaming all night long to red rash on butt cheeks to growing pains to bedwetting to stomach pain/writhing all night long. So it could be something that you took out then started having again (though it seems like that should have abated by now; usually takes about 4 days to get out of your breastmilk) or something new.

Gluten is in wheat, but gluten is also in oats (cross contaminated), rye, pumpernickel, spelt, and a couple of others that I can't remember. Some people do have a reaction to just wheat, but it seems like it's easier to take out all gluten, and then if you get to baseline (no symptoms) then add a gluten-containing grain back in to see which it was.

My kids, when reacting, are up 12-14 times a night. I know the kind of exhaustion you're facing. And I wish you weren't. It's difficult to even think straight when you're that exhausted.

Alot of supplements have lactose in them, that's why I asked.

Are you eating more of something since going off the other things?

[fastyfeet]

Okay- my vegan prenatal vitamin has a soy lecithin coating so that's out now.

I've been eating more grains but haven't been discriminating in terms of gluten. This is going to be very tricky to feel like I'm eating enough and feeding the rest of the family.

So I'll pull wheat, gluten, and corn. I'll keep off of everything until I hit baseline. At that point, I can begin challenging by eating a lot of the pulled item for a day then watch for results. I can challenge every few days. If a challenged food causes a reaction, I stay off of that for six months and don't introduce to dd as a solid. Does this sound right to you?

Thanks again!

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by fastyfeet

Okay- my vegan prenatal vitamin has a soy lecithin coating so that's out now.

Unfortunately we've had to chuck alot of supplements. Can you find one that does work for you? Vital Nutrients has been good for us, and Pure Encapsulations.

I've been eating more grains but haven't been discriminating in terms of gluten. This is going to be very tricky to feel like I'm eating enough and feeding the rest of the family.

DS, DD2, and I are all gluten, corn, soy, dairy free (plus I can't have chocolate, DD2 can't have beef, apples, and more, DS can't have chicken, turkey, rice, green beans, carrots, white potatoes, and more). Am I to understand from the supplement comment though that you're vegan? That is going to be hard. Fats: coconut oil, coconut milk, avocado, olive oil, nuts. proteins: other legumes besides soy, buckwheat.... I'll think about that one.

So I'll pull wheat, gluten, and corn. I'll keep off of everything until I hit baseline. At that point, I can begin challenging by eating a lot of the pulled item for a day then watch for results. I can challenge every few days. If a challenged food causes a reaction, I stay off of that for six months and don't introduce to dd as a solid. Does this sound right to you?

It took 96 hours for me to get allergens out of BM, so make sure you wait at least 4 days (I'm actually going a week between trials for my kids, because of delayed reactions, and I don't want to overload their systems). Also while you're staying off things, you need to do healing as well; I think that was my mistake the first time, thinking that just staying off the food was "enough" (Pat/WuWei is the expert on that: fermented foods like pickles and sauerkraut, probiotics like kefir and yogurt [I make coconut milk yogurt], etc.).

[lil_miss_understood]

Proteins: quinoa, buckwheat, rice and beans (besides soy), nutritional yeast, seeds of all sorts, nuts (if tolerated)
Also, have you considered that you may be low/deficient in B12?

[Bokonon]

When I eliminated dairy and soy, DD definitely got worse before she got better.

I've read that soy lecithin is usually tolerated by people with soy intolerances except when they are very sensitive, so if the symptoms go away, you might try reintroducing soy lecithin first to see.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by Bokonon

When I eliminated dairy and soy, DD definitely got worse before she got better.

I've read that soy lecithin is usually tolerated by people with soy intolerances except when they are very sensitive, so if the symptoms go away, you might try reintroducing soy lecithin first to see.

I thought you were more likely to tolerate soy lecithin if you had a soy allergy. And most people with soy intolerances couldn't tolerate it. With my DS, there was 3 days of withdrawal. Has it been a week since you took out the second round of stuff?

[fastyfeet]

This is definitely so helpful.

I'm not vegan, but eat very little meat (old habit from being vegetarian for so long) so being off dairy feels like being vegan. I use lots of quinoa and beans. Sounds like it's time to get comfortable with meat! I'm still trying to figure out how to cook with a baby and toddler so that's part of my hesitation. Time to see this as an opportunity rather than a bummer!

I've been hesitating on the coconut products after doing lots in the last few days then watching dd's cheeks flare up. It will be one of the first things I test. In the meantime, I'll check out the healing threads to see. The idea is that my gut needs to be healed, therefore it's leaking stuff into bm that shouldn't be there causing dd to react?

I'm sure I'm B12 deficient. Just started B supplements so hopefully this will help.

Bokonon, when you say that your child got worse before she got better, can you give me a sense of the timeframe? Was her reaction a new one or a worsening of the old?

I pulled soy five days ago but just noticed the soy lecithin coating on the vitamin. So I guess today will officially be day 1 with no soy. Could that little bit of coating cause such a big reaction? Especially if it wasn't there before? I can't seem to get over the idea that her cheeks were fine until just a week or so ago. Maybe her intolerances are now strong enough that they're manifesting on her skin where I can see them, and they've been there all along.

Listening to dd chew on paper in the other room. Hmmmm... maybe her paper diet is linked to the cheeks. No more paper, baby!

[kjbrown92]

A great healing thing that isn't exactly "meat" is bone broth (chicken is less meat flavored than beef). Simmer for 24-36 hours and you get calcium, minerals, and healing gelatin.

Is coconut a salicylate thing? Some people get red flared cheeks from salicylates.

Red-flared cheeks and is the coating on a vitamin enough to do it.... my DS had a chewable Flinstones vitamin that had vegetable oil as about the 10th ingredient in there. His cheeks flared red and he woke 10-12 times a night. I called the company and sure enough it was soybean oil. The company was very good and told me which ones didn't have the soybean oil in them and gave me coupons for them.