Did you see Nourished Kitchen's "Food Stamp Challenge" - Page 3

[eastkygal]

Originally Posted by BeagleMommy

To eastkygal,
I live in rural western KY and have found several sources of backyard eggs around for $.70/ dozen to $1.50/ dozen. No, not organic, but happy chickens who eat bugs and grass with conventional feed. Although, the egg ladies I have known feed only as much feed as they must to save money. They also get veggie scraps. I found one egg lady by talking at the feed store and the other by just driving around. And if there are Amish or Mennonites around you, I bet you can find other egg sources or even meat sources, too.
As for how to do the rest on a tight budget, I'm anxious to read more responses. We need all the budget trimming help we can get.

There are plenty people who raise chickens as we do. There are fewer of them willing to sell eggs. I have gotten eggs from people a few times, but it is so few and far between that eggs from the store is my "go to" until our hens start laying.

I have asked at the Mennonite store about meats and such. In regards to my question of where I might find raw milk, the lady said "Get a cow."

I am adamant about providing us with the best food I possibly can on my budget and within our means with homesteading. I have searched high and low. I food shop in 3 counties to get the food we need. Where we are from, people grow food and/or raise food more for their family and friends than to sell to others. There aren't many farms so to speak. Lots of mountains though.

[FairyRae]

Originally Posted by Faliciagayle

Our budget allows for wiggle room but I can't find pastured eggs for less than $6 a dozen here.

That is CRAZY! I wonder if there are any (cheaper!) markets/farmers a bit of a drive away from you...I can't imagine paying that much for eggs! It's amazing how prices can vary by location, and I'm in NY state as well...(I pay $2 on average for a dozen local free range eggs...$6! Whoah!)

[crunchy_mama]

She has the first week up did you see it?

I thought I lived in a fairly low COL- but holy Toledo those prices are just out of this world low. I shop Manager's Specials as well, but just the regular prices she paid on organics is less than the convential cost here. Reg. Broccoli on sale this week- $1.50 a head- the cheapest bag of non-organic potatoes $2.77, 5 lbs Organic Carrots $5- Conventional Carrolts$3.75, Conventional Apples on sale this week 99c lb.

That is just amazing.

[athenalove46]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

She has the first week up did you see it?

I thought I lived in a fairly low COL- but holy Toledo those prices are just out of this world low. I shop Manager's Specials as well, but just the regular prices she paid on organics is less than the convential cost here. Reg. Broccoli on sale this week- $1.50 a head- the cheapest bag of non-organic potatoes $2.77, 5 lbs Organic Carrots $5- Conventional Carrolts$3.75, Conventional Apples on sale this week 99c lb.

That is just amazing.

I agree. Those prices were wicked low!!! I'm lucky if I can find one thing that cheap. I wonder how much digging around she did to find those prices.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by athenalove46

I agree. Those prices were wicked low!!! I'm lucky if I can find one thing that cheap. I wonder how much digging around she did to find those prices.

The link for those who missed it (as I did). I thought I remember reading a comment in the first post where she mentioned that there was some pre-planning involved.

[JTA Mom]

I just looked at her prices. Some, like the Sea Salt, were incredibly low, but that was due to Manager's specials (pretty much they are discontinuing the product).

Her prices are 'normal' in that those are all sale prices. She also mentioned going to several stores.

This is how I grocery shop. Nothing is going on the list unless it's on sale. I sit down with the sales flyer and start mapping out the different things to buy. After doing this for a few months I know the 'price points' at which I will buy. I also did a price list a while back, where I went to all my regular stores and wrote down the prices for stuff my family eats. From this I found out that the best price on eggs is Smart & Finals 3 dozen pack, butter is best at Costco (1.50lb regularly), beans at Smart & Final, etc.

Not every week has a good sale. That's where stocking up comes into play. For example, I can get chicken leg quarters for 77cents a lb. There will be a few weeks where chicken is pricier, but that's okay because I already bought like 10lbs of chicken legs when they were on sale.

It's all become second nature right now. It also helps to not have set recipes. I have several "switch 'em out" recipes, like fried rice (all different seasonal veggies), soups, roasts, etc, where I can switch out meats & veggies as I please.

Kinda O/T, but my low grocery budget has actually helped me eat seasonally. I don't get anything above $1/lb unless it's a rare treat (like figs, or persimmons). So we eat lots of melons in summer, lots of root veggies in winter.

Ami

[eastkygal]

I look for sales as well and bogo.

I too have to really prioritize my fresh produce buying because like her the stores that carry organics often have shelves full of decayed produce. Wilted, mushy, etc...

The disheartening thing to me was the comment on homogenized milk. I know it is true, but I can't get dairy out of our diet. It is probably our major source of fat other than bacon and sausage. I can't find anyone willing to sell raw milk to me from cow or goat though I have found people who have it. It is illegal in our state and people fear that too much I guess. So, I could be doing all I can to eat a proper diet and I am managing as best I can on our $269-369 monthly budget, but is it all for naught because I'm putting myself at risk for heart disease with homogenized dairy.

I'm also interested to see what happens when she does buy chicken livers. I have not found conventional chicken livers that aren't obviously diseased and not fresh. We don't do organ meats because of this.

[crunchy_mama]

Ya, I am well versed in sale shopping, but we don't have sales that cheap here. There are only 2 stores that carry any organic produce in the entire area-unless I want to travel 1.5 hrs away. One is WalMart and 1 is Kroger- WalMart only even carries a couple organic items. Organic carrots are always $5 for 5 lbs, they are never ever cheaper than that, at least in the 3 yrs or so they have been carrying them. As I said her sale prices for organics bet the sale prices for conventional here. However, as I said I live in a rural area, there is a captive audience they can get away with charging more.

[Magelet]

Originally Posted by FairyRae

That is CRAZY! I wonder if there are any (cheaper!) markets/farmers a bit of a drive away from you...I can't imagine paying that much for eggs! It's amazing how prices can vary by location, and I'm in NY state as well...(I pay $2 on average for a dozen local free range eggs...$6! Whoah!)

I pay 7.50 a dozen for my pastured local eggs atm. and that's also with trying to be the first to order so I get some since the supply is declining as they go out of season. And I feel lucky to pay so little.

[Panserbjorne]

excellent thread and just what I was looking for! I'm fairly creative with primal type meals (we are gluten, dairy, soy and peanut free) but the financial situation is prohibitive of a lot of my experimentation. Looking forward to more discussion!

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by JTA Mom

I agree with you on the above points! I do find it weird how expensive TF can be. I mean, this is PEASANT FOOD! Jeez, it shouldn't cost an arm & a leg to eat peasant food.

I was thinking about this some more today as I was reading my most recent "Wise Traditions" (which lately more often than not seems to rub me the wrong way) - I don't know if it was this one or another one that talked about how people following a WAPF way of life would never compromise on their food source or something like that. Which also reminded me of a comment made by someone on the first post Jenny put up about the challenge lamenting how they had once tried to follow a TF way of eating, but blew their budget on organics and the like. Which sort of struck me as missing the point. Perhaps I've misunderstood, but isn't the point of TF more than just the source, isn't preparation also key? Can't less than ideal sources be improved by proper preparation so that you maximize the nutrients that are there?

I wonder where the all or nothing mindset came from...that either you go all the way or you might as well do nothing (So says the farmer who left me feeling publicly flogged for my less than ideal food source choice - another farmer whose practices he did not agree with. According to him I might as well shop at Wal-Mart.). Isn't there some value in a good, better, best perspective?

Which then led me to this article on the WAPF website - "The Right Price" - in my search for some suggestions on sardines. There were a couple of quotes from WAP's letter to his nieces/nephews that I thought were particularly poignant in light of a number of recent events.

I am deeply interested not only in your health individually but in the efficiency and welfare of your families. It is particularly important in these times of industrial and financial stress, that children shall not suffer defects which may mark and handicap them for their entire life.

and

Fortunately, an adequately defensive nutritional program can be provided without much expense and indeed often more cheaply than the currently selected foods.

Then this bit that I found particularly interesting as it seems so very counter to what I've seen recommended -

Price did not advocate a high-protein diet. "The protein requirement can be provided each day in one egg or a piece of meat equivalent to the bulk of one egg a day," was his Depression-era advice. The best protein foods, according to Price, are nutrient-dense organ meats, shellfish and small oily fish such as anchovies or sardines, eaten with the bones. In addition, he recommended one quart of whole milk per day for children, to ensure adequate minerals and fat-soluble activators.

I tend to forget that Price lived during the Depression-era. I would expect that his advice/perspective would have been colored by the experience. I suspect that he wouldn't make the kinds of recommendations by the more modern TFers because he didn't live amongst those who had access to vast financial resources.

Sometimes I wonder if modern TF type perspectives tend more on the side of farmers and less on that of every day people (or the people who most need this kind of nutritional support). It's taboo to talk about price - other than to insist that the prices aren't really all that high when you consider all the savings you'll have off of health care (as the only other budget type article I remember seeing in "Wise Traditions" was big on). Don't get me wrong, I think that supporting small, local farmers is important...but I can't help but wonder if the discussion couldn't use a bit more balance.

Someday I'd like to get a copy of the entire letter being referenced in the article. I'd really like to hear what the source had to say without necessarily having to get it from a third party. I've read N&PD, but don't remember seeing the letter in the copy I got from the library.

[crunchy_mama]

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

I was thinking about this some more today as I was reading my most recent "Wise Traditions" (which lately more often than not seems to rub me the wrong way) - I don't know if it was this one or another one that talked about how people following a WAPF way of life would never compromise on their food source or something like that. Which also reminded me of a comment made by someone on the first post Jenny put up about the challenge lamenting how they had once tried to follow a TF way of eating, but blew their budget on organics and the like. Which sort of struck me as missing the point. Perhaps I've misunderstood, but isn't the point of TF more than just the source, isn't preparation also key? Can't less than ideal sources be improved by proper preparation so that you maximize the nutrients that are there?

Which then led me to this article on the WAPF website - "The Right Price" - in my search for some suggestions on sardines. There were a couple of quotes from WAP's letter to his nieces/nephews that I thought were particularly poignant in light of a number of recent events.

I think the descrepanices in the amount of meat WAP recomennded and current recommendations are based on the fact that a lot of us have found we are not very grain tolerant. And those of us who cannot tolerate milk as well- plus the amount of protein in milk is really not that high for the price compared to meat. And for those of us pregnant as well- then our protein/meat demands are very high.

I tend to forget that Price lived during the Depression-era. I would expect that his advice/perspective would have been colored by the experience. I suspect that he wouldn't make the kinds of recommendations by the more modern TFers because he didn't live amongst those who had access to vast financial resources.

Sometimes I wonder if modern TF type perspectives tend more on the side of farmers and less on that of every day people (or the people who most need this kind of nutritional support). It's taboo to talk about price - other than to insist that the prices aren't really all that high when you consider all the savings you'll have off of health care (as the only other budget type article I remember seeing in "Wise Traditions" was big on). Don't get me wrong, I think that supporting small, local farmers is important...but I can't help but wonder if the discussion couldn't use a bit more balance.

I wonder that as well. When prices are set so high that no "normal" person can afford it you have to wonder. And then prices keep going higher and higher due to the high demand. But then there is a charge that you just have to sacrifice because if not you somehow don't value your family's health enough. Sometimes, you cannot find anything else to sacrifice. Most of us around here live pretty simply already and have already cut out the luxuries most people consider necessary. Not that we are just resigning ourselves that it isn't affordable and giving up- but at some points you do have to make that concession- we are still working to find ways to save money and increase the quality of our food, but I accept where we are now and hold no guilt about it.



We can all hope though that as demands increase there will be a return to more and more small family farms and more people becoming sufficient themselves- it seems for most of us the only way to afford it is raising it yourself. That is what the peasants did they had their own milk cow- a few chicken for eggs- maybe a hog- maybe they hunted- I am sure if the people of past generations were trying to pay for all of these things like a lot of us are today they wouldn't be able to afford it either. Of course then you have the issue of accessibility as so many live in places where it would be impossible to raise any kind of animals. I think part of the movement though is fighting for the right to do that.

Learning to optimize gardening space - so one can grow their own produce and then maybe have more money to buy things they cannot obtain themselves. I think most of us have seen the video of the couple; that lived in CA I believe, that grow everything they need on a very small lot. We need that knowledge out there. We need more communal gardens for those living in the city with no green spaces.

All of those things together to really revolutionize food in this country. WE cannot just do this one way. It will not happen for everyone with just a few farmers here and there.

[funkymamajoy]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

I wonder that as well. When prices are set so high that no "normal" person can afford it you have to wonder. And then prices keep going higher and higher due to the high demand. But then there is a charge that you just have to sacrifice because if not you somehow don't value your family's health enough. Sometimes, you cannot find anything else to sacrifice. Most of us around here live pretty simply already and have already cut out the luxuries most people consider necessary. Not that we are just resigning ourselves that it isn't affordable and giving up- but at some points you do have to make that concession- we are still working to find ways to save money and increase the quality of our food, but I accept where we are now and hold no guilt about it.

This is where we're at too. I've put raw milk (or even organic) on a low priority because the money we save by using WIC allows us to buy better produce. Its one or the other and we eat more produce then milk.



[/QUOTE] All of those things together to really revolutionize food in this country. WE cannot just do this one way. It will not happen for everyone with just a few farmers here and there.[/QUOTE]
yes, yes, yes

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

Learning to optimize gardening space - so one can grow their own produce and then maybe have more money to buy things they cannot obtain themselves. I think most of us have seen the video of the couple; that lived in CA I believe, that grow everything they need on a very small lot. We need that knowledge out there. We need more communal gardens for those living in the city with no green spaces.

All of those things together to really revolutionize food in this country. WE cannot just do this one way. It will not happen for everyone with just a few farmers here and there.

when i lived in an apartment block in Winnipeg, we had a communal garden in the flower beds. Tomatoes, lettuce, onions, chives, carrots, radishes, rhubarb, strawberries, cucumbers and zucchini on trellises... I really miss that apartment block. Everyone took such pride in the garden- it was nothing to take a stroll around the building and pluck a weed or two if you saw them and it was common for someone to knock on your door with zucchini bread, carrot muffins, strawberry-rhubarb jam or some other goodie they'd harvested from the garden and processed.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

I think the descrepanices in the amount of meat WAP recomennded and current recommendations are based on the fact that a lot of us have found we are not very grain tolerant. And those of us who cannot tolerate milk as well- plus the amount of protein in milk is really not that high for the price compared to meat. And for those of us pregnant as well- then our protein/meat demands are very high.

I can understand that (being both pregnant and married to someone who's list of foods he can eat is a bit on the shorter side), but grains are not what I (or Price in this instance) was referring to:

"There is no objection to having the children fill up on bulky foods such as potatoes and vegetables, if the daily mineral and vitamin requirements have been satisfied first," he advised his nieces and nephews.

With things like grassfed beef somewhat off the table given it's price per pound and the fact that I can't come up with $500 to buy it in bulk which seems to be the only suggestion folks have, I find myself oddly drawn to foods that I would have never considered before - like sardines and organ meats. Notice I said drawn...I have a can of sardines in my cupboard that's been sitting there since I went grocery shopping. I can't interest dh in taking them for a snack and I'm a bit nervous about making a meal of them. Still not quite sure I can get the family to eat it...at least not after the last few disasters in acceptance I had. So we will buy meat from the grocery store...because ultimately my children have to eat.

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

I wonder that as well. When prices are set so high that no "normal" person can afford it you have to wonder. And then prices keep going higher and higher due to the high demand. But then there is a charge that you just have to sacrifice because if not you somehow don't value your family's health enough. Sometimes, you cannot find anything else to sacrifice. Most of us around here live pretty simply already and have already cut out the luxuries most people consider necessary. Not that we are just resigning ourselves that it isn't affordable and giving up- but at some points you do have to make that concession- we are still working to find ways to save money and increase the quality of our food, but I accept where we are now and hold no guilt about it.

That's ultimately my point (and the point that Jenny @ Nourished Kitchen is making) - as long as we focus on what we have been focusing on and assuming that everyone has far greater financial resources available there will be no solution. We'll just continue on as we were - some will continue along with us, but we'll lose the possibility for *real* change because we've so drastically limited our audience.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by eastkygal

There are plenty people who raise chickens as we do. There are fewer of them willing to sell eggs. I have gotten eggs from people a few times, but it is so few and far between that eggs from the store is my "go to" until our hens start laying.

But your friendly neighborhood farmer (or just a neighbor with a bit of extra eggs or milk to selll) isn't going to accept Food Stamps. It's quite a bit of work to set yourself up to accept EBT, and "small scale" farmers just can't do it. It might have been different back in the days of paper food stamps- a neighbor might have taken payment in food stamps, then used those food stamps at the local grocery for food for her own family. But that's not today's reality (and probably wasn't ever legal, although I'm sure it must have happened.)

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

I tend to forget that Price lived during the Depression-era. I would expect that his advice/perspective would have been colored by the experience. I suspect that he wouldn't make the kinds of recommendations by the more modern TFers because he didn't live amongst those who had access to vast financial resources.

I never even knew that in the first place! We also ALL have to remember that there's a huge difference between Dr. Price's actual work and dietary recomendations, and the WAPF/Sally Fallon's recomendations. Sallon is big on saying "eat this much meat and this much raw milk" while Price saw that there were many different healthy diets to choose from.

What frustrates me is that I could probably get lower prices on certain foods if I could shop at the farmer's market, but none of the farmer's markets take EBT. They do take the little coupons from WIC, but I don't get WIC anymore, and even then, I only got $24 worth of coupons from WIC once during the 5.75 years I was on it. I used up the coupons, then couldn't afford to shop there anymore because they don't take EBT.

Another point I want to make: all this talk about "eat well and save money on health care." Well, if you qualify for Food Stamps, you qualify for Medicaid. So, this could be a good talking point to bring to legislators- the gov't saves money on health care if the Food Stamps recipients are eating well. But it's meaningless for individual families. Try cutting out milk or need allergy medicine? Well, the allergy meds are only $1 per month with the copay, the milk is free from WIC (or, if your kids are past WIC age, dairy products are still cheaper than many other food sources), it's cheaper to go with the meds, and trying to play around with dietary changes may cost the family money it doesn't have to spend, and we won't see the gains in the health care spending.

[eastkygal]

Ruthla - That's exactly right. When I have gotten eggs from people before they were given as a gift. I can't use my EBT for them.

And, I absolutely know that the changes in my diet has increased my health. I'm far from TF perfect, but I do what I can with our budget, but yes on the legislators. I wish government/people period would look at the bigger picture instead of what seems like quick fixes. Food Revolution!!!

[carmel23]

thank you for posting this! this is great.

We have one healthfood store that has a good bulk section, but other things are pricey. We buy in a food club that has super good beans/flour but they don't take EBT.

We just joined a co-op that has good stuff and takes EBT!

So I'm going to follow along with them. But I think they're amount of EBZT is super high! But it is a good, super low budget for an entire month.

okay, now I'll read the thread...

[AngelBee]

:

[crunchy_mama]

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

I can understand that (being both pregnant and married to someone who's list of foods he can eat is a bit on the shorter side), but grains are not what I (or Price in this instance) was referring to:

Oh, well- I have been using a lot more potatoes lately to fill in calories on the diet but they don't really work well for a protein substitute. They are more cheap filler to take the place that cheap grain fills in for others. For me the choice is currently that I have to eat some conventional meat because I cannot afford to meet my protein requirments otherwise.