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"You let him do WHAT?? That's HORRIBLE!" UPDATE & answers, #101 - Page 5

post #81 of 118
I don't know, I think the kid is being depicted as excited about the idea of grandma dying. I hope that's not the case. I think it's creepy and that mom is being disrespectful. She knows it too, because she insists that neither she nor her son will tell grandma about the urn. Why not, if it's such a great thing?

Both my grandmothers had strokes and one had mental impairment and memory issues as a result. She would have been heartbroken to think that we were gleefully planning her funeral. She, however, was outspoken about plans, for example what dress she wanted to be buried in. That's the big difference. Planning a funeral for someone who's alive without their input or knowledge is wrong to me.
post #82 of 118
Here is the thing... Grandma might have been:

* excited about her daughter and grandson doing this
* indifferent, due to spiritual beliefs or lack of mental capacity
* upset by the whole ordeal

I guess the problem I have, is that no one bothered to ask her how she would feel about it. That's the only thing that matters at the end, regardless of how I, or anyone else feels about buying an urn ahead of time.

Yup, it might be very tough for me to make arrangements when the time comes, but I will never make arrangements for someone I love before they passed away. I might be viewed as uptight and crazy, but that's how I was brought up (I didn't grow up in the US btw). It would have been disrespectful in my culture. I am very willing to accept alternative and to look at it from some else's point of view, BUT the participants have to be aware of it, and share the spiritual standing of the people handling their plans "for when they die".

I know a family that just lost a child to cancer, and I just cannot imagine them doing something like this behind his back, yk? I think grandma deserves no less consideration in this case.
post #83 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicalGirl View Post
Well then why just stop on getting the urn for grandma, since we could all potentially die lets get an urn for every member of the family, that way the rest of the family can avoid go urn shopping in a time of grief.
If I were going to shop ahead of time, I'd probably do exactly that. It's pretty clear from the OP that the death of the OP's dad was very difficult for her to deal with, logistically, while grieving. I can certainly understand wanting to deal with it ahead of time for her mom. I really don't see what the issue is with that.
post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerriMom View Post
I don't know, I think the kid is being depicted as excited about the idea of grandma dying. I hope that's not the case.
I don't think it is, and I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that is is the case. There's nothing in the OP to suggest he's excited about grandma dying.

Quote:
I think it's creepy and that mom is being disrespectful. She knows it too, because she insists that neither she nor her son will tell grandma about the urn. Why not, if it's such a great thing?
Maybe she figures her mom is thinking about her own mortality a lot right now (as I think most people are when their spouse - or even ex-spouse, as I don't know if the OP's parents were still married - dies), and wouldn't appreciate the reminder?

Quote:
Both my grandmothers had strokes and one had mental impairment and memory issues as a result. She would have been heartbroken to think that we were gleefully planning her funeral. She, however, was outspoken about plans, for example what dress she wanted to be buried in. That's the big difference. Planning a funeral for someone who's alive without their input or knowledge is wrong to me.
I'd be heartbroken to think that anybody was "gleefully" planning my funeral, as that would imply that they were eagerly looking forward to my death. However, I didn't see anybody in this thread doing that.
post #85 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquesce View Post
To be honest I don't think it's particularly relevant that you or any one individual understands why so much as it is relevant that everyone understands that it is a plausible and commonplace feeling about the subject -- that personally not caring can not just be hoisted off as an expectation upon the broader population.
Well, I'll keep it in mind in future, but it never would have occurred to me that anybody would care, prior to this thread. And, as I have no idea why anybody would care, I can't see any reason that I would have guessed that they would.

Quote:
I don't think anyone has said advanced funeral planning is a bad idea. Rather simply that the feelings of the person for whom arrangements are being made should be the primary consideration, at minimum insofar as they are still living.
I can't imagine why, but it's obvious that many people agree with you. The OP's mom's wishes, to the extent that she's ever bothered to express them, are being honoured. Personally, I'd be far, far more bothered by being invited to participate in choosing my own urn than I would be if I happened to find out that my heirs had already taken care of that. My feelings (or someone else's) might be hurt by such an invitation, so maybe advance planning should just not be done at all?
post #86 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I don't think it is, and I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that is is the case. There's nothing in the OP to suggest he's excited about grandma dying.


Maybe she figures her mom is thinking about her own mortality a lot right now (as I think most people are when their spouse - or even ex-spouse, as I don't know if the OP's parents were still married - dies), and wouldn't appreciate the reminder?


I'd be heartbroken to think that anybody was "gleefully" planning my funeral, as that would imply that they were eagerly looking forward to my death. However, I didn't see anybody in this thread doing that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Well, I'll keep it in mind in future, but it never would have occurred to me that anybody would care, prior to this thread. And, as I have no idea why anybody would care, I can't see any reason that I would have guessed that they would.


I can't imagine why, but it's obvious that many people agree with you. The OP's mom's wishes, to the extent that she's ever bothered to express them, are being honoured. Personally, I'd be far, far more bothered by being invited to participate in choosing my own urn than I would be if I happened to find out that my heirs had already taken care of that. My feelings (or someone else's) might be hurt by such an invitation, so maybe advance planning should just not be done at all?
I still think advance planning, to whatever extent the planner is comfortable is much better than having to trudge through that while grieving.
post #87 of 118
woah woah woah!!! this thread i think is getting off topic and becoming judgemental about OP and her family and how they 'celebrate' death.

every family does the process differently. she shared how her family handled death.

maybe it is not the same as ours. but that is no reason to say what she did was wrong.

my objection is the chuckle. rather than chuckling it would be good to find out or figure out why she could have been so mad.

its not about why is the son buying the urn and being excited about it. if the lady had known she would have probably been happy to see such a healthy attitude towards death.
post #88 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post
i disagree. her reaction was v. plausible.

i mean lets imagine OP had posted just this part.
Nope, still rude to tell someone in front of their kid that you think they're doing something horrible to their kid, unless it is actual, obvious, abuse. And a kid with a big grin means doesn't qualify.
post #89 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
I think it would have been more helpful to explain that making arrangements for your dad at the time of his death was distressing, so you'd decided to choose your mom's urn in advance because it would be so upsetting if after she passed you learned that the perfect urn was no longer available.
: Honestly, this is the reason I'm okay with the whole situation. I wouldn't choose to buy the urn before the death, but I haven't had a parent die.
post #90 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
I know a family that just lost a child to cancer, and I just cannot imagine them doing something like this behind his back, yk? I think grandma deserves no less consideration in this case.
You don't see the difference between a child dying and making preparations in accordance with the last discussion an adult had on the topic, in anticipation of a death by what might be old age?

Or to simplify it's a difference between "let's get ready because you're going to die" and "let's take care of these details so when the time comes we don't have to worry about it."

Like selecting a guardian for your kids, or buying burial plots, or writing a will.

Yeah, it'd be great if grandma were involved. Or maybe it wouldn't be. I suspect the OP and her ds have better things to discuss with grandma.

Grandma could still pick out her own urn if it floats her boat. As long as the OP and son don't then say "oh, no, we already have the one we like", having an urn already hurts nothing but storage space.
post #91 of 118
I don't think buying an urn is any different than picking out (and purchasing) plots to be buried in. I remember being 5, strolling with my grandmother through the cemetery, as she asked my opinion on which plot I liked best (for her!). I remember this as such a great time - the cemetery was like a really lovely park. We wound up picking a plot right next to a lovely, large tree.

I think pre-planning is very practical. Plus, I think this is a very healthy way to expose children to death. Usually people are very silent and fearful about death. Approaching it in a realistic, but non-scary way is a good idea, IMO.
post #92 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Or to simplify it's a difference between "let's get ready because you're going to die" and "let's take care of these details so when the time comes we don't have to worry about it."
Like selecting a guardian for your kids, or buying burial plots, or writing a will.
All of these decisions are made by the concerned person himself/herself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Yeah, it'd be great if grandma were involved. Or maybe it wouldn't be. I suspect the OP and her ds have better things to discuss with grandma.

Grandma could still pick out her own urn if it floats her boat. As long as the OP and son don't then say "oh, no, we already have the one we like", having an urn already hurts nothing but storage space.
Floats her boat? She may or may not care less. But, it is incumbent upon those close, to seek the opinion of the person for whom the arrangements are being made.
post #93 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by stik View Post
...may suddenly find themselves offended when they learn that the choice was made by a child well in advance of your mother's passing.
Or they may just assume that it was "handled" and not ever ask the details.

I don't know how the funerals I went to last year were planned. My aunt-in-law was in the hospital quite often maybe her funeral was planned by my uncle-in-law when she first went in for an organ donation. Maybe he never talked to her about it. I assume they did, since they'd bought plots together with my grandparents-in-law, but I don't really know because it's just not the sort of thing you ask.
post #94 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seawind View Post
All of these decisions are made by the concerned person himself/herself.
Yep, and before her strokes grandma decided on cremation and an urn.

Not sure why so many people wanted the OP to waste her time with her mother trying to get her mother to understand that the urn was being bought now instead of in 30 years.

Especially those of you who think grandma would be distressed.

Maybe someone could explain exactly what harm happens to grandma if she never finds out the urn was bought in advance?
post #95 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Yep, and before her strokes grandma decided on cremation and an urn.
Are you sure about the urn part?

Also, expressing wishes about final rites and someone doing it (for someone else) before the actual passing are two different matters.
post #96 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seawind View Post
Are you sure about the urn part?

Also, expressing wishes about final rites and someone doing it (for someone else) before the actual passing are two different matters.
Remember, we're talking about a woman who has a 2 minute memory. All my comments are about this specific scenario, not about a totally competent person.

Nope, not sure about the urn, I read "buried with grandpa" and "types of containers" and "urns" and kind of mixed them.

So yes, grandma who apparently didn't give any details of how she was to be buried with her husband might have specific, non-urn ideas in that regard.
post #97 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Remember, we're talking about a woman who has a 2 minute memory. All my comments are about this specific scenario, not about a totally competent person.

That was short-term memory loss per the OP. Getting off-topic. To get back on, the OP posted about a topic which is, as evident from the responses, something that folks feel strongly about.
post #98 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seawind View Post
To get back on, the OP posted about a topic which is, as evident from the responses, something that folks feel strongly about.
Point.

I actually have no problem seeing where someone would be shocked at the situation in the OP. What I don't get is being upset because there was a child involved.

"You're doing WHAT?? That's HORRIBLE!" I could understand in so far as I could understand any outburst. Although that does still assume that grandma had no input. Which we know, but the acquaintance didn't know. For all she knew grandma had picked the urn out of a catalog and sent them to the store to buy it.

If a mama here had been the acquaintance and had posted about it, we'd have seen a few dozen posts about how "maybe their family handles death differently" and "you should have kept your mouth shut" and "how do you know that his grandmother knew nothing about the shopping trip?"
post #99 of 118
Quote:
i wonder if she interpreted that as you guys cant wait for mother to die, or you dont care -
That. I've had the misfortune of meeting too many people who were impatient for their parents to die. Years ago I would have had a different, less negative reaction. Of course this woman should not have been rude yet not knowing her life story or experiences with dying/death, I cannot judge her on her reaction (just how she chose to express that reaction.)

Lest anyone think I'm in denial of some kind, my own plot was purchased when I was 20 years old. But I really have no attachment to it. My H and I have told each other our wishes but we both agree that the final decision must be whatever is most comforting to our child. Our position is that if death is nothing else, we hope it puts an end to caring about the details.
post #100 of 118
Some people still want to tell 10 yr olds that "grandma's just sleeping".They are so tied up in their own fear, they can't be honest about it all. These are frequently the people who would rather let their kids flounder around with peers rather than share the facts about sex.
I think you did a wonderful thing. Death is a part of life, and pretending it will never happen to someone our child loves will do nothing to help them prepare for and cope with the truth.
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Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › "You let him do WHAT?? That's HORRIBLE!" UPDATE & answers, #101