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Another "Disciplining Somebody Else's Child, WWYD" Thread

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
I always feel uncomfortable when I have to handle a situation with another parent's child when the parent is present (i.e. 3 feet away and watching/listening to what their child is doing). Yesterday evening was DD's 5th birthday party. One mother and child arrived early so were the only ones there. I don't know the mother very well so we started to chat and she was telling me what a hard time she has with her DD (4 yo), that she does not listen to her, etc. Her daughter is definitely "energetic".

Flash forward...I put out some snacks and drinks. It was to be a small party (2 families, with a total of 4 kids), so I did not have an unlimited supply of each snack. Her DD started to scarf down one of the bowls of nuts. Admittedly they are yummy and hard to put down. She was encouraging my DD to follow suit. I gently told my DD that the nuts were for everybody to share and she had enough. She stopped eating the nuts. The other girl's mother half-heartedly told her to stop eating the nuts as well, but she did not stop. I finally took the bowl, when it was half gone, and suggested putting some on plates for each of them, then put the bowl in the middle of the dining table, away from where we were sitting. Her DD climbed up on the table (!) and took the bowl and proceeded to pour the contents onto her plate. The mother, again half-heartedly, told her not to do that but did not move an inch to really stop her daughter. I took the bowl away and matter-of-factly told the girl that the nuts were for everybody to share. I felt funny afterwards, as her mother was right there. Though I did not raise my voice or speak to "sternly", as I was rather matter-of-fact in my dealings with her, I still felt like maybe I overstepped my bounds and should have just let her DD finish off the nuts? Besides from the issue of sharing, I was genuiunely concerned that it was too much for her little body to handle (but maybe she has a stomach of steel?).

Later in the evening, when it was time for cake, her DD wanted to blow out the candle. Understandable that a young child would want to join in the fun but it is also an opportunity to learn that it is another child's turn to be in the spotlight. Again, her mother was right there and said nothing. She left it to me to tell her DD that it was my DD's birthday and it was her candle to blow out and that she can blow out candles on her own birthday. I had to physically block her daughter's face from the candle, as she proceeded to try to blow out the candle before my DD had a chance. Another half-hearted exclamation by the mother followed.

There were a few more incidents over the course of the evening. And a couple of times after I matter-of-factly dealt with her DD, "It's good for her to hear others tell her like that". You think? I hardly had time to enjoy watching my DD enjoy her party as I was constantly dealing with this other little girl, which should have been her mother's job. And she wonders why she has trouble getting her DD to listen to her? She obviously does not even try.

Our DDs only recently became friends and part of me is sorry that they did as I already have started to develop negative feelings towards the girl (which I know should be directed at her mother as the little girl clearly does not know any better). Fortunately, we are moving this week and will no longer have contact with this girl and her mother.

Neverthless, I still feel like I was put in an awkward position and maybe I should have just let her DD do whatever she wanted/was permitted to do, as long it did not cause anybody else real harm? The only incident that was clearly beyond the bounds was the candle, which I cannot imagine handling any differently. But otherwise perhaps I should have just left her mother to "parent" her as she sees fit even if it is in my house?
post #2 of 66
I'm sure that some people will jump on this and disagree, but I don't think it sounds like you did anything wrong. Unfortunately, some parents just seem to be passive and unable or unwilling to correct their child's behavior. Everything you did seems very reasonable. My theory has always been that if a parent is unwilling to help their child behave appropriately (and most people would agree that blowing out the birthday child's candle or taking all the food from the serving bowl for oneself are not appropriate) and it is negatively affecting my child or negatively affecting others at my house, then I will say something.

I do hate these types of situations. They're always so very uncomfortable! I think some parents really just don't know how to be assertive with their children, but it makes me so very uncomfortable!
post #3 of 66
You did nothing wrong. It just makes me nuts when people won't parent their children.... I cannot begin to understand why they won't. No is not a bad word! It can be explained nicely but firmly - as you did. You can physically help them if needed - by moving the nuts or standing between her and the birthday candle.

I think it is HELPING the child learn what is appropriate, and how to better get along with people in the future. It is definitely a deal breaker for me - I am not going to spend much time with people who let their kids run wild. It is rude and I just don't have time to stress over it.
post #4 of 66
You absolutely did the right thing! I know it's totally awkward and uncomfortable to be put in that position though.
post #5 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by amma_mama View Post
I still felt like maybe I overstepped my bounds and should have just let her DD finish off the nuts? Besides from the issue of sharing, I was genuiunely concerned that it was too much for her little body to handle (but maybe she has a stomach of steel?)....

Fortunately, we are moving this week and will no longer have contact
Yes, in my opinion it was overly controlling to try to regulate what her child was eating at the party. I find it to be impolite. As the parent of a child who was on the receiving end of similar comments in this sort of situation, I say you may not know the full situation. Yes, our child had a significantly larger appetite than might have been typical for a child his age. And, no it isn't polite for party hosts to point that out or to attempt to remove food. Doing so in fact was really contrary to the approach we were intentionally taking in that situation. If it is unclear why monitoring the amount people are eating because you know better about their stomach capacity is rude imagine doing that to an adult.

I understand it bothered you but you are moving. Is it worth the energy to be upset about this?
post #6 of 66
I don't think you over stepped your boundaries. I have been at adult parties where a tray is politely taken away from a group so that it can be passed around to other guests. You also gave the mom opportunities to parent her own child. It was your house and your rules. My DD is allowed to jump on our furniture but at other people's house's I respect their rules and parent DD accordingly.

How did the mother react? Did she seem relieved you were dealing with her? I ask because at the ballet school I teach at sometimes it seems like the mother's would prefer the staff remind their children of the rules. For example there is a stairwell that children like to hang from... hard to explain but a fall would be dangerous. The school has a rule that children are not to hang there. Several times office staff has to go out and remind the children... even though the parents are right there, and for the most part the parents usually seem happy that someone else dealt with it.

I know when I am visiting my mom sometimes I get her to "discipline" DD, because often she is more likely to listen to Nanny since it is Nanny's house after all.

At any rate your post reminded me why I never want to have a parent and child party. It just seems like it could be too stressful!
post #7 of 66
I think each incident needs to be looked at individually. Yes, eating all of the nuts would be annoying, but whatever, it was a party snack. If she ate them all and THEN moved on to start eating all of another snack, I would probably say let's leave some snacks for others. The candle thing, yah, I wouldve stepped in b/c it was not her birthday. Other stuff, it just depends. I have friends who allow their toddlers to stand on the coffee table. No big deal in their own houses. If they stood on our coffee table, I could easily tell them that no one is allowed to do that in our house so they need to get down.

When the parent is right there, I generally assume that they believe that whatever their child is doing is okay. If the kid eats a whole bag of M&M's, well I wont have to clean up their puke later, so go ahead. If the parent is not right there, that is different and I have no problem stepping in. If dealing w/ another person's child, while the person is right there, is interfering w/ your joy, then, yes, stepping back and ignoring it may go a long way for you.
post #8 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Yes, in my opinion it was overly controlling to try to regulate what her child was eating at the party. I find it to be impolite. As the parent of a child who was on the receiving end of similar comments in this sort of situation, I say you may not know the full situation. Yes, our child had a significantly larger appetite than might have been typical for a child his age. And, no it isn't polite for party hosts to point that out or to attempt to remove food. Doing so in fact was really contrary to the approach we were intentionally taking in that situation. If it is unclear why monitoring the amount people are eating because you know better about their stomach capacity is rude imagine doing that to an adult.

I understand it bothered you but you are moving. Is it worth the energy to be upset about this?
:

also it seems to be rather common at birthday parties that I have seen to have candles for all the kids to blow out when they are so little because it is so hard to resist. I know some folks do a cupcake for each guest with their own candle, birthday kid get the age # of candles, singing, everyone blows out together.

I think that its fine to ask a child to follow your rules in your house. But as a parent I don't know your rules, unless you have them posted. I wouldn't think to stop my kid eating all the nuts because I would figure you put them out to be eaten, however if that was "the rule" I could be persuaded to follow it.
post #9 of 66
See, and I would never let my kids eat all the nuts in a bowl if there were other guests at the party, or we were there early and other guests were coming - not because of her stomach capacity or tolerance, but because it's inconsiderate to not leave any for others (or eat more than half the contents). The snacks are for *everyone*, not just my kid.

OP, I think you did fine.
post #10 of 66
It's totally appropriate to stop a child who's mother refuses to teach her child by redirecting or explaining sharing. It isn't fair to the other guests (speaking of being polite to guests) for one guests to hog something entirely no matter how fond of nuts she was.

I think you did it politely giving several chances for mom to step up. Having guests doesn't mean anything they want/say goes. Food meant to be enjoyed by several people *2 families in this case* needs to be shared.

The mom sounded overwhelmed or very laid back and was probably glad not to have to correct her child. I don't really care for that attitude myself (and I am passive, but have mellow children thank goodness), but she was obviously not upset in the least that you had to be the bad guy.

Kids need limits, and gently providing them is the kind and considerate thing to do.

I would have put the nuts up if she couldn't leave them alone and told her that she may ask for more if she would like some, and then after a few small servings direct her to other snacks and explain that others haven't had a chance to have some nuts yet.

A big appetite really is beside the point. I'd never allow a single solitary child to wipe out an entire bowl/platter/dish of food by themselves.

You saved the child from potential bad feelings on the other children's parts anyway, what if they'd have wanted some nuts?

I think you handled it well.

Maybe it's just different attitudes, but in our family small children don't get to run the snack and food tables. Especially when there's limited quantities as OP said.

The hostess' job is to ensure the comfort and happiness of ALL his/her guests.
post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Yes, in my opinion it was overly controlling to try to regulate what her child was eating at the party. I find it to be impolite. And, no it isn't polite for party hosts to point that out or to attempt to remove food. If it is unclear why monitoring the amount people are eating because you know better about their stomach capacity is rude imagine doing that to an adult.

I understand it bothered you but you are moving. Is it worth the energy to be upset about this?


First of all, I do believe that it would have been really nice for the other mother to at least have a conversation with her daughter about being considerate of others who might want the nuts too. However, she probably has very little practice in modeling social etiquette for her little one. She's possibly one of those moms who just doesn't know what to do. She already feels like she has a relationship with her daughter where the daughter doesn't listen. Being really insecure, she's likely watching how other parents handle various situations.

That being said though, I have observed that with forced sharing and regulating someone else's food intake, both often backfire and produce the opposite of what a parent intends. I can see why you wouldn't want her to climb on your table, but that's where the food was now; that child was problem solving (in her own way) when you were attempting to block her "need." At that age, wants and needs are all in the same. You could figure out some preventative measures from this experience for the next birthday party you may host. I like the idea from a pp about providing candles for all the kids. Also, if you don't want to provide an abundance of food (so the kids can choose to eat until they are satisfied) then you could structure the party as a potluck so the guests' parents would be expected to contribute to the yummy offerings.

But you know, if you feel strongly that parents really should control their kids more, then it must be a relief to know that you are moving. You could choose to focus on that. Perhaps you can more carefully monitor who your child makes friends with at your new home, if you think that would reduce your stress. However, now that I think of it, that might backfire too over the long run.
post #12 of 66
I generally see around here with parties for children that young that snacks are kept in a place where the children need the help of adults to get them. I assumed it was for the sake of them not getting their hands all over all the snacks, but maybe it's also so they can't take them all. In any case, I think for a party for a 4-year-old, so for kids from 3 to 4 generally, it's probably going to be a bad idea to put a bowl of snacks out for children to help themselves, and not expect them to help themselves, or to expect them to have the social graces you were expecting. Though if I'd been the mom, I would have stepped in and helped my dd get snacks.

The candle blowing out thing is classic and I don't think there's a particularly good way to handle it. I've seen this at just about every party for kids that age I've gone to. Again, it's a case where kids don't have social graces and just aren't going to hold back. All you can do is muddle through the best you can. I wouldn't think badly of a child that age who couldn't resist, but on the other hand I understand you trying to save that opportunity for your child. They also try to open the birthday child's presents and sometimes the parents of the birthday child get upset about that, though I'm not sure if I've ever seen a birthday child get upset about it. Maybe. I can't say I've paid close attention.

So, I think your expectations maybe were a bit high, but I understand why you got involved, and it doesn't sound like you were mean or anything so I wouldn't sweat it. But in the future, with young kids, pass their snacks out individually or put the snacks up where they need help to access them.
post #13 of 66
I think it's fine to enforce certain rules in your own house.

I think the thing that stands out in this case is that you weren't really go against or around the mother- you weren't the first one to tell the girl not to eat all the nuts, or not to blow out the candle. You didn't come between the mother and her daughter; the mother's stated wish was that her daughter not eat more of that food. It was also your wish. Since both parents were on the same page, I see absolutely no problem with you stepping in and being the one to take care of the situation.

It would be different if you had taken food away from her when it seemed like her mother was okay with her eating it, you know what I mean?
post #14 of 66
OP, I'm in the camp that you were not wrong. You were put in an awkward situation by this mother who for whatever reason preferred to hand the reins over to you.

Like a PP suggested, maybe her own lack of confidence as a parent causes her to sit back and try to learn from how other parents handle these situations, and to see if her daughter responds to them. But that just underlines the point that you were not wrong to respond the way you did. You responded appropriately - you were firm but not harsh, consistent in your attempts to teach her proper etiquette. Maybe the mother will do better the next time her child goes to a party, having learned from what you did?

Whichever way people here believe, that you were right or wrong to respond the way you did, no one can deny that being put in such a situation is awkward. It's uncomfortable to discipline other people's kids, and to most parents, it's uncomfortable watching someone else discipline your own child.

Yes, if you had made different accommodations for your party (extra candles, lots of food, etc, etc) it may have been a non-issue (or you may have had an entirely different set of issues) but how is a person supposed to prepare for every possible scenario in advance?

It is the parent's responsibility to teach their own child what is socially appropriate way to behave in someone else's home. How else will she learn? If she continues like this, she will likely find that her daughter isn't receiving invitations any longer, and that's truly sad.
post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post

I think you did it politely giving several chances for mom to step up. Having guests doesn't mean anything they want/say goes. Food meant to be enjoyed by several people *2 families in this case* needs to be shared.

.
So, let's say you had another couple over for dinner. You felt the gal was eating too many nuts. Would you question her ability to judge her own stomach capacity and remove the bowl telling her to share? If you did this what message do you think it would say about you as a host and what would it say to your guest?
post #16 of 66
OP, I think you're fine. A child old enough to go to another child's party should be learning how to behave when out to a party. At an age when parents go with them, it's because the PARENT should be parenting them and guiding their behavior.

The bit about a candle for every child must be recent, I've never done it, seen it done, or even heard of it before. I guess it's the lenient thinker's solution to getting kids to leave the birthday child's candles alone? When do you stop, highschool? The workplace?

I've known children who had trouble learning this kind of thing, we often didn't invite them for special events. They knew it was because we found them disruptive, destructive, and a few other things (not just at 4 and 5 with parents not parenting either, but also from 8-18.) I've had occasions to witness them outside of small home events and saw the same patterns at school, church, or youth-league sports, or just roaming the neighborhood because they didn't see any point in staying put if they could sneak away. Now I see them struggling to get their adult lives in order, and bringing their own children into the world.

I spend alot of time praying for them, because I do care.

But as things are likely to continue as they are, guess how I think OP's guest is going to turn out?
post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet_fw View Post
The bit about a candle for every child must be recent, I've never done it, seen it done, or even heard of it before. I guess it's the lenient thinker's solution to getting kids to leave the birthday child's candles alone? When do you stop, highschool? The workplace?
IKR? No way on earth I would steal my kids' thunder like that.
post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
So, let's say you had another couple over for dinner. You felt the gal was eating too many nuts. Would you question her ability to judge her own stomach capacity and remove the bowl telling her to share? If you did this what message do you think it would say about you as a host and what would it say to your guest?
I would hope a full grown adult would have the social awareness to not eat the majority of any food when there were other people there supposedly to enjoy the food as well - I think this has zero to do with stomach capacity or tolerance to excess, and everything to do with being considerate of others around you. A host shouldn't have to have a limitless supply of food for a party just in case one guest decides to gorge themselves.

I can't imagine going to dinner at another couples house and cleaning out a bowl of nuts so that the other 3 people didn't have any (or only leave a handful for the others). I *could* eat them all, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet_fw View Post
The bit about a candle for every child must be recent, I've never done it, seen it done, or even heard of it before. I guess it's the lenient thinker's solution to getting kids to leave the birthday child's candles alone?
Yeah, I can't get down with this either - it's in the same line of thinking as getting a present for a sibling on the other kid's birthday so they don't feel left out - I always thought that was bizarre. Learning that sometimes it isn't about you is a part of growing up - it can be done gently, it doesn't have to be rubbed in the child's face or anything. Yes, the kid might be upset, and every kid expresses upset differently, but you just have to roll with it and be sympathetic and talk with them. I can't imagine giving the special feeling of blowing out a beautiful glowing candle to every kid at my child's birthday party just so they don't feel left out - that's why you talk to your child *before* the party, or right before the cake to remind them whose birthday it is and that on *their* birthday, they'll have their own candle that only they will be able to blow out. And keep an eye on your kid so they don't try to blow it out. I remember someone having to hold DD the past two years (we would hold her on our hip "to give her a better view" and get excited about that) so she woudln't blow out her brother's candles.

I guess it's just a completely different mindset.
post #20 of 66
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
So, let's say you had another couple over for dinner. You felt the gal was eating too many nuts. Would you question her ability to judge her own stomach capacity and remove the bowl telling her to share? If you did this what message do you think it would say about you as a host and what would it say to your guest?
I think if an adult took the bowl of nuts and dumped the entire thing on her plate (as the child in the original incident tried to do), I would be so shocked that I wouldn't say anything at all to her at that moment. Remember, this little girl wasn't just eating lots of nuts; after the bowl was moved, she tried to dump the whole thing on her plate. She climbed on top of the table to do so!
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