1 in 100 now for Autism - Page 3

[tessie]

Originally Posted by Cristiaz

I'm not the kind of person who needs "proof" through science or studies...thinking logically about how the body functions is enough for me.

But I thought it was important to make an informed choice?

[amnesiac]

Please remember to remain focused on vaccines in this forum.

[Cristiaz]

Originally Posted by tessie

But I thought it was important to make an informed choice?

How would that statement make you believe otherwise? I have countless books on vaccines, natural childbirth, and natural health. My collection is quite astounding. Studies are great if the person doing them is doing them for the good of the people and not omitting certain aspects of the study to make a profit like big pharma. Statistics not so much because I don't remember ever being asked my opinion on anything for the purpose of statistical use, so who's to say enough or the right people were asked?

[claddaghmom]

I try to stay out of the Autism/vaccine issue as it bothers me how people can't seem to understand that vaccines might be a factor.

You bring it up and suddenly there's little Johnny, who got his full series and doesn't have any symptoms!

Okay, well my gramps smoked 3 packs a day until he was 80 and died of a heart attack.

So I guess cigs don't cause lung cancer.



Whether pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine, everyone polarizes the Autism reaction. Instead of being one reaction/consequence amongst many, it's the ONLY one. Not true. How people react to their environment, along with the variety of environments, will change the picture. What hurts one person might not be enough to hurt another. Who is bigger, who is smaller? Who just got over an illness? Who was vaccinated during an illness? Who got the special hot shot? Who was just unknowingly exposed to toxins before vaccinating?

Why is it so hard to just accept that vaccines no doubt are a contributing factor to causing a wide variety of neurological issues, which might or might not be diagnosed as "Autism."

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

Why is it so hard to just accept that vaccines no doubt are a contributing factor to causing a wide variety of neurological issues, which might or might not be diagnosed as "Autism."

Yes.

I would add that I don't think that vaccines can be established as being the cause in each and every autism case. Obviously that is not possible, as there are unvaccinated children who have autism. But why is it SO threatening to explore the option that *some* children react to vaccines in an unpredictable way that causes them injury? An injury that behaves like Autism? The studies held up to establish no link are fragile to say the least. There are so many factors, so many questions to ask and absolutely no scientist prepared to ask those questions.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Pandme

Wait a minute. Just because something is linked to something else does not mean it causes it. A link does NOT prove causation.

No, it doesn't. However, when a correlation is found and there is a reasonable hypothesis explaining a possible link, it makes sense to study that relationship. Relying on 'correlation does not equal causation' is a lazy way to not take the concern seriously. I think it shows a surprising lack of curiosity to stop the line of questioning at "correlation doesn't equal causation".

[Pandme]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

No, it doesn't. However, when a correlation is found and there is a reasonable hypothesis explaining a possible link, it makes sense to study that relationship. Relying on 'correlation does not equal causation' is a lazy way to not take the concern seriously. I think it shows a surprising lack of curiosity to stop the line of questioning at "correlation doesn't equal causation".

Thanks. Except it is equally lazy not to mention dangerous to jump to conclusions by leaping to causation.

BTW, both my kids are completely unvaxxed. But to read this forum, that's not good enough....because apparently Pitocin causes autism too! Oh, and if you avoided pit, don't worry, I'm sure someone here will be happy to tell you US causes it too, based on Dr. Google, of course. And if THAT fails, well, there will be something else, I'm sure.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Pandme

Thanks. Except it is equally lazy not to mention dangerous to jump to conclusions by leaping to causation.

BTW, both my kids are completely unvaxxed. But to read this forum, that's not good enough....because apparently Pitocin causes autism too! Oh, and if you avoided pit, don't worry, I'm sure someone here will be happy to tell you US causes it too, based on Dr. Google, of course. And if THAT fails, well, there will be something else, I'm sure.

I completely agree with you that it is highly problematic when people jump to conclusions, and that does happen a lot.

However, it is also problematic when a hypothesis is put forward and it is discredited as irrelevant just because it is controversial. I have never heard about the pitocin autism link before this thread - and I will be interested to watch any future research into this possible link. I suspect that pre,peri and post natal interventions are triggers for some children when it comes to Autism. I would be interested to see if evidence can be found for understanding just which babies are at risk. Of course there might not be any such evidence. Saying correlation does not equal causation and leaving it at that just doesn't cut it.

[Pandme]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

I completely agree with you that it is highly problematic when people jump to conclusions, and that does happen a lot.

However, it is also problematic when a hypothesis is put forward and it is discredited as irrelevant just because it is controversial. I have never heard about the pitocin autism link before this thread - and I will be interested to watch any future research into this possible link. I suspect that pre,peri and post natal interventions are triggers for some children when it comes to Autism. I would be interested to see if evidence can be found for understanding just which babies are at risk. Of course there might not be any such evidence. Saying correlation does not equal causation and leaving it at that just doesn't cut it.

WWell, I definitely agree with your point. And like I said, I am definitely not one to shut my ears on purpose. I think the birth model in this country is problematic and I don't vax at all. I'm not sure fear of autism drives that decision though....more like it's just too much, too soon and the benefits don't outweigh the risks for me.

Where I start to lose it a bit is when conclusions are jumped to before the research is done. Saying pitocin causes autism and then blithely saying "link, cause...whatever" as if they are one and the same is just flat out wrong. I also grow weary of the "everything causes autism" attitude I am seeing. If one thing didn't do it, well, surely something else you did must have. It just makes one paranoid and it feels like you can't do anything right.

[Cristiaz]

Autism is a frustrating subject. Escpecially for those with autistic children. I don't think anyone will ever come to any conclusions as to what factors cause it. "They" push the genetic factor because no one loses money for that. Vaccines being a factor is huge because big pharma looses billions. If interventions and drugs used in labor is a factor, big pharma looses billions. These babies born are so tiny and defenseless with little brains not even fully developed and toxins are being put into their little bodies (as they cry) and no one seems to think about that in a logical sense at all! Before pitocin, there were so many drugs used in labor/pregnancy that ended up being recalled for causing either deaths or birth defects. You can read the book, The Truth About Childrens Health by Robert Bernardini, M.S. for complete info on that statement.

Will we ever REALLY know what causes it? Will it ever make the news? Probably not. I just assume leave well enough alone and keep my DD toxin free.

[Pandme]

Originally Posted by Cristiaz

Autism is a frustrating subject. Escpecially for those with autistic children. I don't think anyone will ever come to any conclusions as to what factors cause it. "They" push the genetic factor because no one loses money for that. Vaccines being a factor is huge because big pharma looses billions. If interventions and drugs used in labor is a factor, big pharma looses billions. These babies born are so tiny and defenseless with little brains not even fully developed and toxins are being put into their little bodies (as they cry) and no one seems to think about that in a logical sense at all! Before pitocin, there were so many drugs used in labor/pregnancy that ended up being recalled for causing either deaths or birth defects. You can read the book, The Truth About Childrens Health by Robert Bernardini, M.S. for complete info on that statement.

Will we ever REALLY know what causes it? Will it ever make the news? Probably not. I just assume leave well enough alone and keep my DD toxin free.

Very true and I am all for keeping my children as toxin free as possible. That is why I do not vax, don't see the benefit outweighing the risk for us. BUT there are toxins in everything. All we can do is our best to keep as healthy as possible.