Talking back by 7 yr old

[delighted.mama]

Please tell my I'm not the only one struggling with this age!

DD, (almost 8) is very articulate and spirited. At her best, she is insightful, helpful, encouraging and very loving. At her worst, she gets very lazy (doesn't want to clearn up....like ever!), whiney and, simply mean to whoever is around her at the time. She also doesn't seem to know when to STOP talking. Instead, her m.o seems to be to keep talking and back talking until DH or I lose our tempers and get short with her. At that point, she focuses on our reaction to her and completely avoids the actual issue.

Example: I asked her to pull her coat out of her backpack and take it with her to gymnastics as we were driving there (it was cold and windy and she had a cold already!) She just didn't feel like leaning over to grab the backpack from the floor and, instead, started telling my why SHE doesn't want to wear it, why she shouldn't bring it, blah, blah, blah. I stopped the car and yelled at her to just take it out and bring it with her! That's all I wanted. She didn't even have to put it on right then, it was for afterwards. When she gets out it is dark and cold. She then started to cry and was upset that I was upset.

Anyone else in this boat? I find it difficult to find a balance betwee being understanding and being firm in the things I think are important to teach.....taking responsibility, choosing words carefully, not back talking and listening, not being insulting, etc.

Suggestions? Thoughts? Other examples you have gone through?

Sometimes, I just don't even want to be around her because I know that she will get under my skin and I don't want to go through the emotionally draining process.

Thanks.

Libby

[confustication]

I have a 7 year old nearing 8 who is doing The Same Thing. She's lovely, but driving me bonkers. I find myself losing my temper with her pretty regularly and completely at the end of my rope emotionally. I don't know if there's a good 'solution'. Much as I have always encouraged her to voice her opinions/feelings, I've shifted lately to 'do as I ask without talking back.' I feel like I'm shutting her down in many ways, but this just can't continue. I have explained to her that she is welcome to discuss things she disagrees with at any time OTHER than in the moment she wants to say no, which helps some, but not a lot.

Mostly, I can only offer commiseration.

[sunnmama]

My dd is 8, and I definitely recognize this pattern!

I've made my focus avoiding this part:
"keep talking and back talking until DH or I lose our tempers and get short with her."

by saying, at some reasonable point (after she has had an opportunity to voice her opinion, but before we are losing our tempers) "this conversation is closed. Bring the coat. We can talk about it more later." And then talk about it more later (giving her an opportunity to explain, at a less stressed time, all the reasons bringing a coat along isn't working for her, and hopefully brainstorming a better solution.)

[denimtiger]

It's really normal at this age. I'm a second grade teacher, so I'm with this age a LOT. I also raised my stepdaughter when she was this age, and had similar issues.

A good percentage of these kinds of power struggles at this age come from the child not having enough power/responsibility/choices. You only gave the coat example, so perhaps a lot of your encounters are a lot different, but I'm going off what I see in the coat example.

Almost eight is old enough to decide if you're going to need a coat or not, it's old enough to be just as irritated at someone nagging you about it and taking responsibility for it as YOU would be if your dh egged you on about whether you were taking a coat.

As parents and caregivers, sometimes it really helps to take a step back and draw a clear line between what is ACTUALLY our responsibility as adults, and what is not.

Providing her a coat so that she has the option to be warm is YOUR responsibility. BEING warm, is hers. I'm assuming you're not in a climate where she'd suffer frostbite from a few moments of being cold. At this age, and even beyond, it is a kind thing for you to mention that it's going to be cold when class is over, and that her coat is in her backpack should she want to take it along. Beyond that, it helps enormously if you're not emotionally invested in her decision, and you refuse to be. If she wants to argue, you can just say "ok," and don't give her something to feed off. If she's cold later, don't buy into that either. Just talk to her as you would if an adult were to tell you she was cold... "gosh, I know. It's FREEZING out here tonight!" The rest CAN be ignored, don't engage in an argument about it. If later she blames you for not bringing her coat, just rinse, lather, repeat with something simple and unemotional... hug her arms, sing "brrrr!" be playful, run to keep warm, but don't eat the argument. Don't get into "I told you so." She's not stupid. She knows why she's cold. You telling her allows her to put her energy into being annoyed at you rather than into making positive decisions for herself.

If you really evaluate it, you might be surprised by how many of your encounters are flavored by your wanting to take responsibility for somthing she could do, but your worries get in the way of it (she already has a cold, or whatever).

[SeekingJoy]

denimtiger, I LOVE this advice!

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Great post, Denimtiger. I'm finding I have to keep reminding myself of this, as DD grows up faster than I can keep pace with (hard to remember sometimes she's not a toddler anymore!).

[Surfacing]

My 4 y.o. does this exactly. I imagine it will only continue and increase as she gets older. : Good point about wanting more responsibility, and giving more responsibility. Too bad the responsibility she wants isn't to pick up her toys after herself.

[terrabella]

I wish my daughter would have waited until 7!

Four years old, and she can make every single one of us cry.
On the upside, she teaching her brothers infinite patience.

Good luck!

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by denimtiger

A good percentage of these kinds of power struggles at this age come from the child not having enough power/responsibility/choices. You only gave the coat example, so perhaps a lot of your encounters are a lot different, but I'm going off what I see in the coat example.

Almost eight is old enough to decide if you're going to need a coat or not, it's old enough to be just as irritated at someone nagging you about it and taking responsibility for it as YOU would be if your dh egged you on about whether you were taking a coat.

As parents and caregivers, sometimes it really helps to take a step back and draw a clear line between what is ACTUALLY our responsibility as adults, and what is not.

Fabulous advice!

I do think it's not usually worth the back and forth power struggle. At this age, they are at such an in-between stage. Not little ones who need a ton of direction, but not yet young adults who know what's best. I do think in the coat instance, the natural consequence is being cold after practice and maybe next time thinking twice about not taking it.

[meemee]

yup yup. denimtiger teh responsibility is it!!!

this is the time to pull out 'how to talk...' book for refreshing our memories.

my dd is super, super independent. that is her nature. to keep my sanity i have had to make her take more responsibility.

its worked well for us. for instance. homework troubles. in first grade. i finally told her v. honestly i dont care if she gets her hw done or not. i am not going to nag her. she needs to find out what happens if she doesnt do her hw and how it affects her. she took the first week and experimented. didnt like the outcome. never heard another peep from her about hw. i had to check it but when she did it was upto her.

this is a big, big age for them. some like my dd are hitting their first puberty signs. body odor. hormonal behaviour. sometimes my dd tells me she doesnt know who lives within her. she doesnt know what is going on within her.

with lots and lots of discipline i have been able to see life thru my dd's eyes. and understand and empathise with her frustrations. i expect the same out of her too and she really enjoys that. i warn her somedays that i am having a bad day and she should understand if i snap at her. given that warning i find she really handles my frustrations well.

you know i must say though taht i thoroughly enjoy her arguments. seh knows if she is logical enough i can change my mind. but her arguments have to be valid. amazing how well that works.

like for isntance candy. a big issue in our house. so we are out and someone offers her more candy. she asks me. i tell her that has to be her call. i explain that i dont want her to eat more candy because seh has already eaten much that day. i remind her how we are watching our sugar intake for immunity, health prevention reasons. most of the time she refuses the piece. somedays she does take it and tells me - mommy i really really wanted to eat that one. either way is ok with me. it is huge for her because she is calling the shots.

we must be careful. all these things that irritate us now, are great skills for our children when they are adults. her talking will get her project thru, her tenacity will make a huge difference while looking for a job.

[Cavy]

Kids who don't ever talk back must be doormats -- life isn't great if you don't stand up for yourself, either. Well, that's how I try to have a positive view on this .

I suppose I try to find compromises:
"Okay, you don't want to wear the coat, but will you just carry it in with you, just do that for me?"
And if she really dug her heels in I'd either take the coat in myself or let her just go without.

As for the talking and talking until she establishes conversational dominance, I think it's best to nip it in the bud early: so try to defuse the situation; very explicitly acknowledge that you have heard her points early on, and try to address them. Before she gets to the point that she's desperate.

Not my DD8 but my DS5yo: he gets hysterical if he thinks he's being ignored. We're working hard on it.

[Surfacing]

Thanks for the comments highlighting the benefits of having articulate children who want to be heard.

I just wish I knew how to handle it sometimes. Sometimes I find my response seems to put distance between us. I wish I knew how to handle the emotional accusatory "poor me" thing with more grace. But it gets me angry and snappy. Not grand.