Travel with unvaccinated 3 yo to Thailand and India - Page 2

[Ammaarah]

Originally Posted by sunflower.mama

What about non-standard vaccines like Malaria? I received that before traveling to India...

Are you thinking of typhoid or yellow fever? We had to take oral mefloquine for malaria when we were in Bangladesh.

OP, is there a travel clinic in your area? They can advise you on when you need your son to get particular vaccines to maximize his chances of being immune by the time you get to India. They were very helpful when we went on our S. Asia trip.

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by Ammaarah

Are you thinking of typhoid or yellow fever? We had to take oral mefloquine for malaria when we were in Bangladesh.

OP, is there a travel clinic in your area? They can advise you on when you need your son to get particular vaccines to maximize his chances of being immune by the time you get to India. They were very helpful when we went on our S. Asia trip.

: about the travel clinic. They were very helpful when DH and I went to Asia.

DTaP also protects against diphtheria, which is an issue in India.

[AlexisT]

Given that the OP's child has CF, i think that even though DTaP is imperfect, it's worth doing. I don't think he can afford anything that will impact his lungs.

MMR is measles, mumps, rubella. It is sometimes given as a combination MMRV, ProQuad, but that vaccine has fallen out of favor.

Measles is widespread in India and can be serious. According to the Times of India, nearly 200,000 children a year are killed by measles in India. Yes, the mortality rate is high, much higher than the USA, because of malnutrition and poor sanitation, but that's still a huge number of cases.

[SleeplessMommy]

Just FYI, the air pollution in cities may be much worse than you realize. We took our healthy 12 mo. old to India and within a week he had bronchiolitis and needed inhaled steroids. The doctor said all the kids get that in the "winter".

I would be very concerned with a CF child. Is his lung function completely normal at this time?

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by tessie

The complications of mmr are much more serious than those of CP.

And I appreciate that bm is good stuff but it genuinely isn't going to protect him from disease.

I don't think they are more complicated, but that is what my research has shown me, which is what I was passing on to the OP.

I also think that bm does protect from many diseases and helps to heal quicker when they are acquired. But, again, that is what my research and experience has shown me, and what I was passing on to the OP.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I don't think they are more complicated, but that is what my research has shown me, which is what I was passing on to the OP.

I also think that bm does protect from many diseases and helps to heal quicker when they are acquired. But, again, that is what my research and experience has shown me, and what I was passing on to the OP.

Respectfully, breastfed babies still get sick and breastfed babies still die from communicable diseases. Breastmilk absolutely provides protection, but it's not 100%. It's definitely a boost, but a child with CF already has immue issues. Again, with respect, can you provide some literature to back up your research?

OP, in your shoes, I would absolutely vaccinate.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

Respectfully, breastfed babies still get sick and breastfed babies still die from communicable diseases. Breastmilk absolutely provides protection, but it's not 100%. It's definitely a boost, but a child with CF already has immue issues. Again, with respect, can you provide some literature to back up your research?

OP, in your shoes, I would absolutely vaccinate.

I'm not sure I know what literature you are interested in... you want me to show you literature that shows that breastmilk offers protection against diseases? I feel like that is pretty mainstream information.

I don't think that breastmilk offers 100% protection against illness and death. But I do think it helps to build a healthy immune system that lasts a lifetime and it helps to fight off diseases.

[pumpkinhead]

ammiga, I was referring to this quote specifically

I don't think they are more complicated, but that is what my research has shown me, which is what I was passing on to the OP.

You say that your research has shown you that the complications associated with measles, mumps and rubella are not more serious than the complications associated with the Chicken Pox. I was wondering specifically what research materials helped you form this conclusion.

[pumpkinhead]

You are absolutely right, breastmilk does help to build a healthy immune system. However when we're talking specifically about taking a child with CF into two countries whose hygeine and access to medical care is not on par with that of North America, I personally believe precautions other than breastmilk are warranted.

[xmasbaby7]

I know this is a very tough call for you, but I had to chime in my opinion since no one else has touched on this point. If you had a year or two to do many of these vaccines, that is one thing, but squeezing them into 10 weeks would give me REAL pause.

Surely you can appreciate that you would be vaccinating him at such an accelerated level, a schedule few 3 year olds have been given, that that to me is a much greater risk of complication than contracting any disease.

There are some people on this board who are anti-vax no matter waht the circumstances. I don't feel like I fit into that group, but I strongly believe with every bone in my body that each vaccine, while some may be very effective, lessens the overall performance of the immune system. (Just the recent study of the seasonal flu vaccine increasing one's chance of a nastier case of h1n1, for example points to this.)

So I don't see what you can reasonably accomplish in the small amount of time you have that makes it a net positive effect on your son's health, except maybe one viral vaccine series (I remain adamantly opposed to bacterial vaccines and flu vaccines). If you are truly going to be away from a place that could prescribe antibiotics and basic medical care, stock up for if he actually gets sick rather than strip his immune system from its diverse bacterial flora and strength and leave him less protected for everything else for which there is no vaccine.

I hope everything works out and you have a wonderful, healthy trip.

[carriebft]

Do you have a doctor there? I know when we travel for long periods, I feel better knowing we have a trusted physician. Also, you could do some vaccines there if the logistics work out-- so say you do hib 1 and 2 here and then hib 3 there or the like.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

ammiga, I was referring to this quote specifically

You say that your research has shown you that the complications associated with measles, mumps and rubella are not more serious than the complications associated with the Chicken Pox. I was wondering specifically what research materials helped you form this conclusion.

It was a combination of many sources. Books like "How to Raise a Healthy Child... In Spite of Your Doctor" by Dr. Mendelsohn, "The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Sears, and others. Talking to my parent's generation. Watching old tv shows and comic strips, where these were the topic of normal childhood ailments and nothing taken seriously.

From my reading, most real problems with the measles stemmed from a vitamin a deficiency. I don't have my links handy for that, but you can easily research that.

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

You are absolutely right, breastmilk does help to build a healthy immune system. However when we're talking specifically about taking a child with CF into two countries whose hygeine and access to medical care is not on par with that of North America, I personally believe precautions other than breastmilk are warranted.

I would completely agree. I think where we differ is that I don't think that vaccines are the proper precaution.

[Delicateflower]

Alicia, have you been to India before? Something you may not have considered is the incredible pollution I saw all over the northern half of the country during the winter. It's soot from people burning wood, paper and waste for warmth and it reduces visibility to 20- 50 feet. It played havoc with my asthmatic lungs, would it have any impact on the lungs of a person with cystic fibrosis?

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by ammiga

It was a combination of many sources. Books like "How to Raise a Healthy Child... In Spite of Your Doctor" by Dr. Mendelsohn, "The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Sears, and others. Talking to my parent's generation. Watching old tv shows and comic strips, where these were the topic of normal childhood ailments and nothing taken seriously.

From my reading, most real problems with the measles stemmed from a vitamin a deficiency. I don't have my links handy for that, but you can easily research that.



I would completely agree. I think where we differ is that I don't think that vaccines are the proper precaution.

Respectfully, a book about vaccines is not going to provide unbiased information. Anti-vaccination literature is not going to provide you with unbiased information either although it is useful in that it provides you with a place to start and what to look for. If you want to get as close to the truth as possible, you need cold, hard, facts and statistics. This sort of research is difficult, but if can be done. Reading someone's opinion cannot give you a well balanced view of anything.


Vaccination may not be the proper precaution, but taking a medically fragile child into countries such as India and Thailand without any precaution save breastmilk is not something I would personally be comfortable with.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

Respectfully, a book about vaccines is not going to provide unbiased information. Anti-vaccination literature is not going to provide you with unbiased information either although it is useful in that it provides you with a place to start and what to look for. If you want to get as close to the truth as possible, you need cold, hard, facts and statistics. This sort of research is difficult, but if can be done. Reading someone's opinion cannot give you a well balanced view of anything.


Vaccination may not be the proper precaution, but taking a medically fragile child into countries such as India and Thailand without any precaution save breastmilk is not something I would personally be comfortable with.

I actually think that a book that is pro-vaccine is more likely to play the scaremongering card than a non-vax book. And, in fact, Dr. Sears does this repeatedly. So the fact that Dr. Sears says they are normally harmless normal childhood diseases says a lot to me.

The other book isn't anti-vaccine. Dr. Mendelsohn simply discusses childhood illnesses, how to treat them, and what they are normally like.

I've read plenty of facts about measles, mumps, and rubella from a great variety of sources. I have concluded that they are on the same playing field as chicken pox. Clearly, you have reached a different conclusion from your research.

I also said that I would not rely solely on breastmilk to help prevent and treat illness while traveling with my child to those countries. However, I also would not rely on vaccines.

[Naomi]

One of the common complications of measles is pneumonia. Pneumonia is dangerous to any child, but even with prompt care and attention it's vastly more dangerous to a kid with CF.

I would also be very concerned about the air pollution.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I actually think that a book that is pro-vaccine is more likely to play the scaremongering card than a non-vax book. And, in fact, Dr. Sears does this repeatedly. So the fact that Dr. Sears says they are normally harmless normal childhood diseases says a lot to me.

The other book isn't anti-vaccine. Dr. Mendelsohn simply discusses childhood illnesses, how to treat them, and what they are normally like.

I've read plenty of facts about measles, mumps, and rubella from a great variety of sources. I have concluded that they are on the same playing field as chicken pox. Clearly, you have reached a different conclusion from your research.

I also said that I would not rely solely on breastmilk to help prevent and treat illness while traveling with my child to those countries. However, I also would not rely on vaccines.

Perhaps I view it from a different angle due to my profession. Research is what I am trained to do.

I don't think that vaccines should be relied upon per se, but I do think that there are situations where they are warranted as the lesser of 2 evils. Personally, I would not wish to take my medically fragile child to either of these countries if there were any way to avoid it (just FYI, this is completely not a judgement of the OP) but if I had to, I would definitely consider certian vaccines as a precautionary measure.

I think that as a society we overvaccinate too soon. That does not mean that I feel every vaccination in every situation is wrong. I think that every situation should be evaluated inofitself.