Is anything getting absorbed?? Everything passing through whole.

[capsgirl08]

Whole grain rice, black beans, celery, carrots, chicken, pork --- it all came through DS's poop pretty much the same way it went in. I am so sad. I just posted about him failing the beet test (so low zinc, low stomach acid) and was hoping something I fed him would do him good. I added apple cider vinegar to his food, which he loves, but his poop was very watery today.

Any thoughts? Thank you, mamas.

[Theloose]

In the short term, digestive enzymes might be helpful? Dd's poop was like that for a while, but it slowly seemed to go away on it's own. I don't know if it was her maturing, or improving zinc status (she passes the beet test, but her hair test showed low zinc), or the other nutritional support we've done. At the time, I just took it as a sign to not push solids, since they weren't doing much for her anyways

[capsgirl08]

Thank you, WhoMe. Do you have any recommendations for digestive enzymes (as in brands or which enzymes specifically)? Is this to say that taking them helps produce the right enzymes for breaking down the food, thus helping the nutrients to be absorbed?

Also, do you mind sending the link to your detox puzzle site again? I am trying to learn, slowly but surely. Thank you!

[Theloose]

No problem. The digestive enzymes are the enzymes themselves, to replace what the body might not be making on its own. The theory is that by breaking down the food, you can better absorb the nutrients, and so can heal yourself enough to make your own enzymes. I chose brands based on reading labels and what seemed like the highest enzyme count per dose/dollar, and ended up with Houston Neutraceuticals, Enzymedica digestGold, or Integrative Therapeutics, depending on the store

and detox puzzle is at www.detoxpuzzle.com Glad you're finding it helpful!

[mamafish9]

Enzymes can help short term, as can kefir (helps digest the food), but the most important thing I think is to start supping a well absorbed form of zinc. You also might try things like bone broth, coconut yogurt - highly digestible. Basically, if he's not breaking down food, then veggies, nuts, whole grains, beans - no nutritional value and hard on their gut passing through.

It took me a long time to make peace with the fact that the most nutritious food for my DS was food he could digest - even if it wasn't a very balanced diet, or left out major food groups. Worry about balanced nutrition once more foods are digesting!

[capsgirl08]

Thanks for the brand names and for the website, WhoMe! I will definitely look into them. Do you know the dosage for a 17-month-old? Also, histamines/fermented foods stimulate stomach acid -- so ACV should be ok to continue, right?

Mama, thank you for the tips. How does one begin kefir without dairy or coconut though? I think I get OAS with coconut and for sure tummy aches, which is such a downer because it would be great to have. Bone broths...I will start those up again for sure. Probiotics without any trace amounts of dairy are difficult to find as well -- any ideas there? Sorry to be repeating questions others have asked...Will check through search function as well!

Aileen

[farmerjess]

Aileen, you can get water kefir grains from culturesforhealth.com which you can culture in plain sugar water or juice. My LO loves to drink it. It doesn't seem to do much for my stomach acid production though when I drink it with meals.

Also, my babe has the same problem at 12 months old. At what age would you wise mamas think it would be good to start supping zinc to an LO?

[WC_hapamama]

How well is he chewing his food to begin with? That might be a factor here too. Everything you listed are things that can take a long time to digest or are hard to digest to begin with... maybe except the carrots.

[mamafish9]

Given the problems we ran into with low zinc by 20mo old, I'd be supping zinc as soon as there is a clear problem (and lots of undigested foods in poop is a clear problem, IMO).

If you're still bfing, I'd also supp your zinc, just to make sure you aren't part of the problem...

Having them eat solid foods they aren't digesting can lead to a host of other problems - gut irritation, leaky gut, more food intolerances, constipation. Ask me how I know... . So I'd focus on very easy to digest foods and getting zinc levels up before I fed much more solid foods.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Given the problems we ran into with low zinc by 20mo old, I'd be supping zinc as soon as there is a clear problem (and lots of undigested foods in poop is a clear problem, IMO).

If you're still bfing, I'd also supp your zinc, just to make sure you aren't part of the problem...

Having them eat solid foods they aren't digesting can lead to a host of other problems - gut irritation, leaky gut, more food intolerances, constipation. Ask me how I know... . So I'd focus on very easy to digest foods and getting zinc levels up before I fed much more solid foods.

What are some "easy to digest" foods? We are having the same issues here with my 10 month old. Suddenly everything is coming through whole.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by earthmama4

What are some "easy to digest" foods? We are having the same issues here with my 10 month old. Suddenly everything is coming through whole.

Anything that doesn't come through whole? That was my layperson's definition, anyhow. For my DS, that was meat - he handled meat just fine, even when he wasn't handling sugars, complex starches, gluten/casein, and a pile of other stuff. Also coconut yogurt seemed OK. I think it varies by kid, depending on what is causing the digestion issues. I know bone broth is a popular one, oh, and we did kefir (DS tolerated raw goat's milk kefir right from the beginning, even when non-kefir dairy was a disaster, but that's not true for everyone - for us it was a lifesaver food though).

ETA: And for little ones who are still mostly breastfeeding, honestly, if it comes out whole, I wouldn't feed it, even if that really limits their solids. I'd try to solve the *why* and get their digestion working better first.

[capsgirl08]

WhoMe---Thanks for the digestive enzyme brands. Went to a store and found the Gold brand, but saw the citric acid and something else that made me hold off until I found the others and could look at the ingredients. So nice to have a place to start, though! Thanks, again.

FarmerJess---Thanks for the link! Excited to see a starter package is more affordable than I thought it would be for water kefir.

MamaFish---Will definitely continue to BF as long as possible and will supplement my zinc and mag levels too. Found some clay that I might try externally first for both me and DS. (DS has eczema patches (I think---it's this pimply rash) that started all over his body almost immediately after he ate some dairy/egg-free bread.) Another problem is that I am still eating gluten and dairy (I know I shoud not, just have had a hard time with it). Recommitting to cutting out everything cold turkey, but I'm worried about the effects of it on DS. As in, detoxing all my junk into my BF.

Yikes, gtg. But thanks, all!

[Kismet_fw]

Subbing - out of self-interest!

I hate to say this, but I'm over 40 and frequently have the same problem everyone here is describing in their babies. I even have trouble with things like lettuce (though sometimes I'll have long stretches with no issues.)

Sometimes I will do better for a while if I'm using any kind of "probiotic" at all. Yogurt cups from the store even do the job, I don't have any confidence in anything staying undisturbed long enough to make my own (3 cats and a 2 yo grandson in the house.)

If I'm having trouble with fruits and veggies - I like many, but during a harsh time the acids will make my inner ears/mouth/throat tingle, and the food looks the same flushing as it did swallowing. Once I was so far chemically off kilter that my hands were turning red and getting bleeding cracks when I was peeling and cutting up potatoes for others to eat - not a huge amount, just family dinner for DH and two growing kids, I knew I couldn't have them. It freaked my dc like crazy. I know cooking destroys some nutrients, but cooking those things like apples or pineapple help alot, or putting juices into something that will be cooked. I have found quite a few recipes over the years, I think the cooking breaks down some of the acids and other things. When it comes to grains, beans, lentils, corn, and other seed foods that have a distinct skin, sometimes I can eat them if I run them through a blender after cooking to softness (I don't care if my bean broth is cloudy instead of clear!) Sometimes things go ok, and I can eat stew with everything I want, and a measure of barley soaking up alot of the broth! Other times I will simmer beans to a point of perfection, make my cornbread, and not get any value from either.

I'm quite certain mom weaned us all early, no telling if that is a contributing factor or not. I do know my older sister is permanently non-dairy now due to severe milk allergy -but went as long as she could with yogurts and cheeses. Younger sis was allergic to dairy as an infant, but can eat dairy foods now.

I keep trying different things, but I would love to get this nailed down.

[farmerjess]

*I* supp zinc at 30-45 mg /day, but it's scary to start giving it to a such a little one. I am fairly certain though that he needs at least more zinc and mag since the bm levels of minerals stay pretty steady. I think it's also good advice to stop feeding him anything he's not digesting. The problem with my LO is that he seems to only digest purees well, but he doesn't like eating them (except smoothies, which seem too sweet to give all the time) and really wants finger food when we eat. I am going to try harder to get him to eat only mushed stuff.

He seems to do well when we give him diluted bone broth with a little kraut juice mixed in. He loves it, and then I chew up some meat really well and dissolve that in there (ewww, right?) I need to do this more often.

[farmerjess]

Originally Posted by Kismet_fw

Subbing - out of self-interest!

I hate to say this, but I'm over 40 and frequently have the same problem everyone here is describing in their babies. I even have trouble with things like lettuce (though sometimes I'll have long stretches with no issues.)

Sometimes I will do better for a while if I'm using any kind of "probiotic" at all. Yogurt cups from the store even do the job, I don't have any confidence in anything staying undisturbed long enough to make my own (3 cats and a 2 yo grandson in the house.)

If I'm having trouble with fruits and veggies - I like many, but during a harsh time the acids will make my inner ears/mouth/throat tingle, and the food looks the same flushing as it did swallowing. Once I was so far chemically off kilter that my hands were turning red and getting bleeding cracks when I was peeling and cutting up potatoes for others to eat - not a huge amount, just family dinner for DH and two growing kids, I knew I couldn't have them. It freaked my dc like crazy. I know cooking destroys some nutrients, but cooking those things like apples or pineapple help alot, or putting juices into something that will be cooked. I have found quite a few recipes over the years, I think the cooking breaks down some of the acids and other things. When it comes to grains, beans, lentils, corn, and other seed foods that have a distinct skin, sometimes I can eat them if I run them through a blender after cooking to softness (I don't care if my bean broth is cloudy instead of clear!) Sometimes things go ok, and I can eat stew with everything I want, and a measure of barley soaking up alot of the broth! Other times I will simmer beans to a point of perfection, make my cornbread, and not get any value from either.

I'm quite certain mom weaned us all early, no telling if that is a contributing factor or not. I do know my older sister is permanently non-dairy now due to severe milk allergy -but went as long as she could with yogurts and cheeses. Younger sis was allergic to dairy as an infant, but can eat dairy foods now.

I keep trying different things, but I would love to get this nailed down.

I've had a lot more luck improving my own digestion than my LO's. Mineral supps have been crucial. Esp zinc, magnesium, chromium, selenium, and molybdenum. Also taking Betaine HCL a/o drinking kombucha (but educate yourself on the detox capability of kombucha before you take it) with meals helps a whole lot. Basically most things give me gas if I don't eat them with the HCL a/o kombucha. Have you tried the beet test? Basically you eat a bunch of beets and if you're pee turns pink it probably means you are low on stomach acid. Eating very well cooked food I think is also a good measure for being able to break things down. I have also tried enzymes, but I am not sure if I have benefited from them.

[Theloose]

Kismet, I'd look into the specific carbohydrate (scd) and/or GAPS diet. They're really similar, and they work on rebiulding gut flora and improving digestion. The beginning stages focus hard on easy to digest foods like bone broth, well cooked meats and cooked fruits and veggies. Also, have you considered celiac disease/gluten sensitivity?

[stephienoodle]

We were having this problem (and still are to an extent) and DS tested really low in zinc on his hair test, even though he's nearly EBF a lot and my zinc was high. Something I read along the way is that breastmilk often will not contain enough zinc for a kiddo after a year in some cases, even if mama has enough zinc. We found a zinc cream and his digestion seems to be improving since we started using it. It is from OurkidsASD - they have trial sizes, too! DS will also drink water kefir, but that has a tendency to give him funky poop if he drinks too much at one time. It does seem to help with the digestion if he only has a couple of sips, though.

[Asiago]

As suggested, digestive enzyme supplementation may be helpful.
Looking at the list of what he has trouble digesting, it seems various enzymes may be helpful:

protease- to break down protein
amylase- to break down carbs
cellulase-to break down plant cellulose (in order to digest beans, veggies, fruits)
lipase- breaks down fats (if you see globules in stool of fats then lipase sup may help)

Many enzyme supplements contain all of these, but in various quanities.
Also keep in mind that there are plant based and animal based enzyme supplements, so if there is a food allergy to a specific animal protein avoid enzyme supplementation with it.

Also, as simple as it sounds, pureeing foods, really does help the body to utilize the nutrition if it cannot be broken down via normal digestive process.

Overcooking rice and grains can help too, in order to make them more mushy and soluable.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by Asiago

Also, as simple as it sounds, pureeing foods, really does help the body to utilize the nutrition if it cannot be broken down via normal digestive process.

Overcooking rice and grains can help too, in order to make them more mushy and soluable.

Does it? Or are purees just less recognizable in the stool as "food"? Sorry to be gross, but I was thinking about this and realizing that back when I thought DS was digesting his purees, perhaps I was just not recognizing the pureed food in the poop because it looks like, well, poop. Its easy to recognize a whole bean or carrot cube, but pureed beans or pureed carrots could pass as normal stools. I remember DS having pretty colorful stools as he began solids. The Dr told me that was normal a baby's body is not as efficient at digestion as an adult's is, which I am sure is true, but again I don't remember having these issues with my other boys other than after a GI illness, which indicates to me it is indicative of intestinal stress of some type.

I am not saying that pureeing won't help, I am sure that in children with digestive problems it would somewhat, just raising the questions that purees may pass through undigested as well and just not be as noticeable, so if we do start more cooked purees, I am going to be noting color. It should be more uniform if he is really digesting, not a rainbow of yellow, green and orange - don't you think?

[Kismet_fw]

Puree the foods! Sometimes (thought it was mentioned) the actual skin of a seed - like a bean, lentil, or kernel of corn - will be what isn't digesting. Mushing the skin will give you access to the inside, but you still want the fiber from it, so you don't want to puree and strain. Not sure why we still have trouble with meats, lettuce and the like too, but I am always better off with a rich broth than with anything else.

I am pretty careful to chew my food, and I still have lots of things get through looking like they were never touched.

whoMe: I have looked at the info on celiac but haven't taken the time to go in depth on it. I do find glutens are often an issue for me, but not consistently - of course, it's from wheat, another seed!

Asiago: Thank you for the guidance on enzymes, I guess it's back to keeping a food journal and see what the biggest issues are.

farmerjess - bleargh, I hate beets