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Computers and Children

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I´ve seen many times on MDC people mentioning that their kids are not expossed to computers. I´m just wondering why that is? I totally get limiting children´s exposure to TV and even certain websites/video games. But I was wondering why some parents ban computers all together?

I have to admit I do a lot of programming for a living so to me it seems completely natural to introduce DD to computers from a young age so she learns how to type, feels comfortable with various applications etc. I´d be interested in knowing if their are any studies on limiting that exposure. Oh, and I´m not talking about so much computer time that it takes away from physical activity but more just that she has another "toy" to play with.
post #2 of 31
Hmmm... I'll try to explain our position. I was a programmer at a major pharma company for 13 years and my dh has his PhD in and is a professor of Computer Science at a state university, so we are definitely not Luddites.

Our dd was not exposed to computers until she was about 5 and even now, at 7, gets only about 1 hour per week on the computer when she wants it. We believe that what a computer is able to "teach" a child is better to do it interactively with a human. Learning to use a mouse, how to operate a computer... once you know it, you don't get "better" at it with practice until you are actually doing something like programming. So what's the use of "using" a computer until you really have to use it? Dd gets enough screen time with TV. I'd let her play on the computer if she preferred for her allowed screen time, but she doesn't want to. In a few years she will need it for research in school and writing papers, but right now, there's no "need" for it. I don't consider them toys. They are machines to be used with a purpose. JMHO.
post #3 of 31
Eh - my DH works on computers for a living and it is one of my main forms of entertainment/support/community/etc. So DS was exposed at a very young age (its in our house and probably more central then the tele). As home educators, it is also a learning tool for us (DS has various educational games he loves playing). And as 'unschoolers', I let DS get on with it. He has learned to use the computer on his own...impressively so. Ill not be surprised, if like his father, he is writing his first computer programmes by the age of 6 tbh! lmao (he has certainly managed to figure things out that I hanv't hehe) ...but his brain is more that way inclined...which he also must get from his father! hehe

The only time I have seen computers become a 'problem' for children, is when it invovles games and they are used in a similar fashion as an X-Box or Playstation or whatever. A close friend of ours has a 10 year old son, who apparently spends so many hours just playing these violent games on the computer that they are starting to heavily limit him. We do not limit in our house, but it has never been something of an issue for us. I also don't think we would ever have such games in our house either.
post #4 of 31
I remember reading about a study that concluded that the more time a child spends on a computer, the less successful (s)he is in school....

As a kindergarten teacher, during my training I was exposed to quite a bit of compelling research that showed that young children learn best by doing -- physically manipulating objects, using all their senses, and from modeling by an actual human.
post #5 of 31
I don't think the computer does a particularly good job teaching kids the things they need to learn. Most of those are much more effectivly taught by another person. It doesn't teach social skills. It takes time kids cold be using activly or interacting with the natural world.

As far as learning computer skills - by the time a young child is leaving school, what those skills are may be quite different.

And even for a middle school aged child, I'd rather skip learning programming, and have them learn logic instead. High school aged kids should learn whateve the current software is and how to type, and whatever else they are interested in.
post #6 of 31
I would never ban a computer simply because I would be really limiting my child's abilities in the future. I think children need to grow up using technology so they are familiar with it and can adapt as the technologies change.

But, he certainly does not need to spend hours a day in front of it either. I am a big fan of moderation. My ds can watch some TV when he is older just as he will be able to have computer time. We have one TV and the computer will be moved to the LR when ds is old enough to show interest and want to use it.
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by physmom View Post
I´ve seen many times on MDC people mentioning that their kids are not expossed to computers. I´m just wondering why that is? I totally get limiting children´s exposure to TV and even certain websites/video games. But I was wondering why some parents ban computers all together?
My guess is most of those that ban computers all together are not actually on this site, kwim? Otherwise it's "do as I say and not as I do"; like taking a puff of a cigarette and then telling your kids not to smoke.

Both DH and I make our livings from the computer. DS and DD both used the computer early. We allow about 1.5 hours per day, be that computer or tv. They usually prefer the computer. I do not believe the computer itself is hideous. I believe they enjoy it more because it is more interactive; and they learn more from the computer (math, reading....) than the more passive tv. However, todays computers is the tv of the 1980s. You plop your kid in front of it and come back 4 hours later, and your kid will suffer - lack of human interaction, lack of exercise, lack of social skills, lack of interaction with nature and the world... But there is a happy medium, between never-ever, and 4 hours a day.
post #8 of 31
My daughter uses a computer some. She isn't terribly interested, but if she were more interested, I'd let her use it more. I'm not bothered by computer usage.

I recognize that it's easy for me to be relaxed about electronic stuff as my dd isn't that interested in it anyway. I don't know what I'd do if she were watching TV or playing on the computer a lot. When she does start to watch TV more than I like, I try to woo her away from the TV with more interesting things instead of limiting the TV.
post #9 of 31
For me I think it's more a psychological, they are growing up too fast kind of thing. Computers appeared in peoples homes as I grew up. My parents go the first home computer they had when I was in high school, and we certainly were not the last family to do so. So for me, my first computer exposure in a Jr High school class on the Apple 2E :LOL, computers seem completely like something that is for older children. My 5 year old isn't grow up enough yet to be on the computer. That said I do let him watch a few videos on the discovery streaming video, I just sit with him and do all the set up and mouse work for him.
post #10 of 31
My 7 year old uses our computer regularly. We do limit it, as we do with all screen-involved activities. He's very familiar with a computer and can do basically anything he wants.

After seeing dh use the computer (he's almost computer illiterate), I have no issue with my kids learning their way around one. Dh drives me seriously batty when he's trying to use it.
post #11 of 31
We treat computer time and tv time equally - they get about an hour a day on school days and more on weekends. Though I think we've got to log the amount of time they're spending again, because it seems to me to be creeping up. Part of that is weather related - when it's cold and rainy, we're in more and the computer is more tempting.

I limit computer time because I want them to be actively engaged in physical activity and using their imaginations. That doesn't happen when they're on the computer.

I don't ban computer use because, frankly, dh and I spend a lot of time on the computer. A lot of it is work (dh does computer work from home, I do some of my teaching prep from home). But some of it is pleasure. I'll even confess to buying my own WebKinz so I could play their games .

Everything in moderation is my line.
post #12 of 31
i am curious how old the children you all have are. dd is 2.5 and at the library, they have toddler-friendly computer stations, with oversized keyboards, mouse and headphone. she is always very interested in these (although does not have computer time at home). i agree it is important to learn to use technology. she pretends to talk on the phone allday long...using a calculator, a banana...or her hands. she also pretends to use a laptop...like mommy does.

BUT...i fell like screen time is not good for little brains...fresh air is better. what age is good to introduce computer time?
post #13 of 31
We do not "ban" it but we also do not encourage it. Dd is 6 and does not really know there are "computer games" or websites for her age range. And we are happy with that right now. There are plenty of other things that keep her busy during the day (we unschool) and no need to start "box training" at this age. We also do not own a TV.

We have had friends and relatives sing the praises of how computer games can teach kids how to read and other essential skills.....suspiciously similar to the praises "educational TV" was given during it's rise in popularity. Anyone else not able to speak Spanish despite WAY too many hours watching Sesame Street? While I do not doubt that there are kids that have learned to read, do math, etc... from computer games, we have found plain old books with WORDS in them seem to do the job just fine. And they do not need to be plugged in

I have not done a lot of research on the subject recently but have in the past. One statistic I kept coming across was something to the effect that kids who use computers from very early ages did not end up any more computer literate than kids who were not introduced to computers until age 8. I suspect, like many technology-related statistics, that this might have been disproved since I read it. But I tend to believe it.

That said, dd does manage her own email account to correspond with relatives and penpals so she does spend about 30 minutes a week on a computer. She is able to type, manipulate the laptop "mouse", and navigate simple programs. She figured that all out in about 30 seconds which tells me she will be fine if she does not spend hours on PBS Kids. Dh and myself are of an age where we did not have access to any sort of computers until high school and certainly not in their current form, yet we have zero problem adapting to new technology. Besides, "technology" comes in many forms and kids are frighteningly adept at manipulating them. Dd has an Ipod, uses our Iphones regularly, and seems to be pretty good at programming her electronic keyboard I am not worried.....
post #14 of 31
My 12 year old has been using the computer as a toy essentially since he was a year old or so. He now also uses it for research and school projects. As a toy he is allowed 1 hour of screen time per day. There will be days we're busy and he gets none and other rainy inside days when he gets more. He usually chooses computer games as his screen time but he sometimes watches a show. We don't have a TV per se but we do watch downloaded shows on the computer in the family area.
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by abharrington View Post
i am curious how old the children you all have are. dd is 2.5 and at the library, they have toddler-friendly computer stations, with oversized keyboards, mouse and headphone. she is always very interested in these (although does not have computer time at home). i agree it is important to learn to use technology. she pretends to talk on the phone allday long...using a calculator, a banana...or her hands. she also pretends to use a laptop...like mommy does.

BUT...i fell like screen time is not good for little brains...fresh air is better. what age is good to introduce computer time?
Our library has these too and it irritates me to no end! We are there to check out BOOKS and READ, not to sit in front of a dumbed-down "computer"! I am sure there are all sorts of perfectly good reasons why these have to be in the libraries but from what I can tell, they are usually not in good working order, they are loaded up with games that are thinly disguised commercials, and a source of at least 50% of the temper tantrums that occur in our library on a daily basis. Luckily, due to the "not good working order", dd lost interest in them after just a few attempts to use them.....

As for what age is good for introduction, I think you will get answers all over the board. I prefer to delay this until kids are old enough to have legitimate uses for them...which will vary widely by family comfort level and what is considered a "legitimate use".
post #16 of 31
I think it is probably best in moderation. We had a computer in my house when I was young, but it ran in DOS and noone ever used it. Most of my computer exposure came from playing Oregon Trail and Number Munchers once a week during computer time in elementary school. We got Windows '95 when I was in middle school. The school computer lab had the internet. I remember having NO idea how to use a search engine (or even what one was). We were supposed to be using the internet for some school projects. It was very difficult not knowing how to search! We had a typing class in 8th? grade. My classmates flew through it. They were finished, I was stuck on the home row. I was a very bright kid, but typing made me feel like a failure. I tried the typing program on our home computer after that, but never got far. To this day, I still pick and poke (although I do say, I'm pretty fast at it ) In college, I'd stay up all night typing papers. It didn't take me that long to actually COMPOSE the paper, it took me that long to work my computer. Unfortunately, handwritten papers were no longer acceptable in college. It took me a long time to catch up to my peers there, and I'm still no expert.

Contrast that to my youngest sister, she's 7 years younger than me and can't remember a world without computers. The kid is a computer whiz, I think, although she's never been really into computers. They just come naturally to her, since she's been using them since she was little. If I need something done on the computer, I call her up and make her walk me through it. she must think I'm a computer dunce, it took her 3 years to teach me how to post a picture to a message board! (turns out its astoundingly simple, I'm embarrased to say) Actually, much of the time, if I need something, I just explain it to her and ask her to do it for me, since it would take me days to get done, and she can whip it up in a few minutes. Honestly, I might not need more than very basic computer skills, but the world is getting more and more computerized- I think she is better prepared for our future because she understands this stuff.

On the other hand, much of my childhood was spent playing outside, riding bikes, engaging my friends in make believe. Her childhood included what I would consider long periods of time in front of the computer- we were only allowed educational games, but she rarely played outside just for the sake of it. In fact, if told to go play outside, she was more likely to go to a friends house and play on THEIR computer. I did have friends with video game systems (not allowed in my house) and they were fun, but I was just as likely to go to the park as play nintendo. In fact, one of my friends later told me if it weren't for my insisting that we go to the park to play, she thinks she would have spent her whole childhood in front of the video game system, and thanked me for getting her out of the house.

So, I'm not sure. I wouldn't want my kids ending up like me, I think they do need some exposure. On the otherhand, I don't want them to sacrafice other parts of their childhood. It seems a balance should be found.
post #17 of 31
My 2 middle kids have been using computers daily since they were 3. My youngest is almost 3 and just starting the first game the others used when they were that age (it only works on my oldest computer, though!).

We hs and use computers ALOT. There are 3 in the house now and the middle 2 are getting laptops for Christmas. They do alot of their school online, and also get a bit of time to play a game each day. My son would sit and play video games on the Wii or online all day if I'd let him, and occasionally I do, esp. if it is a new game/project (like a digital designer type of program) until the new wears off. As he gets older he is self-regulating rather well most days (much to my surprise and joy!), and will go do something else after awhile. He is just really into anything technology related, and I don't see that as a bad thing in this day and age. I honestly see him growing up to create video games or being a programmer of sorts like his dad. Also, video games have been proven to be helpful w/children who have different types of disorders such as ADD/Aspergers. We are seeing many things that remind us of his older sister (awaiting Aspergers evaluation results for her), and both of them really seem to benefit from game time. It seems to be an outlet for their never-slowing-down thought processes. The games can keep up w/them, unlike everyone around them sometimes.
post #18 of 31
My husband is a professor of computer science at a four year university. For many years, he was a senior software engineer in industry. His Ph.d. is in engineering. My Ph.d is in physics, and I am a professor too. My husband set up a wireless network and wireless printing so that he can surf the web and print from the toilet. We are constantly using the computer for both work and leisure. We have at least 6 computers in our bedroom, and this for a family of just two adults and one child who is forbidden from touching the computer.

My daughter is 5.5 years old and has just started kindergarten. Because the kindergarten is teaching the children to use a computer, she is allowed to use the computer at school, but our computers are off limits. We also classify our cell phones as computers, so those are off limits for her as well. We also do not watch TV, or DVDs, or movies, or computer games, or electronic toys. If I can help it, my daughter will not be allowed to touch a calculator until she covers trigonometry or logarithms.

Except for the research aspect for school reports, and perhaps word processing and possibly computer programming, I cannot think of any good educational use for computers elementary school age children.

With the exception of a few youtube videos, I am of the opinion that there is nothing a computer can teach my child or entertain my child that could not be done more effectively otherwise. Other families are different, but that's just what works for us. I think that introducing a computer to my child too early in her life will delay her learning more important skills. Again, that's just our family, I know that all other families do just fine without such draconian measures and I admire them for that.
post #19 of 31
I sometimes let my kids sit on my lap or next to be and look at something briefly on the computer. DS likes me to google him pictures of puppies and bunnies, for instance. But they rarely spend more than ten minutes a week at it. I spend a lot of time on the computer, but I try to do it when they're sleeping or busy with something else.

I don't know that it's specifically that I think the computer will harm them. I do ban TV until age 2, and then strictly limit it. I just think there's not any good reason TO let a kid use a computer much. There are so many better things they can be doing, and there's nothing a computer can teach them that they can't learn elsewhere.

As for the needing to know how to use technology-- I didn't use computers as a small child, and yet I can use one now just fine. I have managed to adapt to all kinds of technologies despite them not having existed when I was a kid. Heck, my grandma grew up without even a TV, and she can use the Internet and a cell phone and her iPod and all the rest just fine even though she didn't learn it as a toddler.

I have in my work seen plenty of kids and teenagers with some fairly odd language patterns and social-skill deficits because of too much time in front of video games-- especially very violent or intense games really intended for teens and adults. I've also seen kids allowed to play intense games before their grasp on reality and fantasy was very solid, who have a hard time dealing with the mundane demands of everyday life. I do believe that too much time with these games before the teen years can do a child harm.

I'd rather see my kids jumping around and singing, or making crafts, or climbing trees and wading in streams, or looking at books, or building with blocks, or having huge arguments over who the red bear belongs to, or any of the other timeworn activities that keep children busy. Computers can come later, in late childhood or the teen years.
post #20 of 31
We limit screentime because it's bad for the eyes and we want to encourage physical activity. EnviroKid did not watch any TV or computer until he was 2 because that's the AAP recommendation. After that we began letting him watch some things with close supervision. Just before he turned 3, he learned how to use the mouse and we began letting him play some computer games for young children.

My father got one of the first home computers (the original Apple II) when I was 4 and my brother was barely 2. He began letting us use the computer right away, for short periods of time with supervision. He also began right away explaining to me how the computer thinks by following a program. He wanted to write a program that would do mad libs (it asks you questions and uses your answers in a story) and I sat with him helping to decide the details and watching how each answer from the user was encoded in a variable and the computer then plugged in those answers in place of the variables in the story.

This was extremely educational, and not just for the purposes of learning computer programming. One of the few battery-operated toys I ever had was a Speak & Spell (it tells you a word to spell, you type in the letters, and it tells you if you're right or need to try again) and after a few minutes of playing with it at age 6, I realized it was just running a program with variables, and I got all excited and tried to write out the program (but gave up because it was so long and detailed). Same thing when I first saw an ATM at about the same age. As computers have proliferated in our everyday life, I've always been aware of the basic way they work, and that makes it a lot easier for me to get along with them and not feel intimidated.

When I was 8, my dad tested the database software he'd written by helping me create a database of my stuffed animals. This required much more thinking on my part than the computer's! I had to decide what the fields of the database should be, which should be text and which should be codes, and what categories to set up in the coded ones. Thus I learned the difference between a string variable and a categorical variable, and the limitations of each--which was really useful a decade later when I got a job setting up an address database.

I could have learned these things at a later age, but IMO starting early made them easier to pick up and more natural-feeling. I did NOT become someone who neglects non-computer skills because the computer is easier--I have lovely handwriting and prefer to do arithmetic by hand!

I'm now the data manager for a research study, so I use computers all day long, do some programming (consolidating data with algebraic algorithms, and running statistical tests), and often set up databases that are not much different from my stuffed-animal one. I have to learn new stuff all the time, but I still think that my early foundation is very helpful. I've been at this job almost 11 years and have trained a bunch of people, and I've found that those who have a background in computer programming but not statistics actually catch on better than those who have a background in stats but not programming.

One of my CS-major friends in college said, "I don't understand how people who can't code can THINK." I wouldn't go that far, but I think that a basic (pun intended ; BASIC is still the best language to start with!) knowledge of programming helps people learn to organize their own thoughts and operate more logically. Not that logic is the most important thing in life--intuition is very important too--but it's certainly useful! I think programming also improves people's ability to "get with the program" i.e. to figure out how a process is operating even when it's outside the computer, for example the steps in making a certain kind of sandwich. (I noticed this working for Dining Service at a university with both CS and fine arts students.) Of course it's also important to think critically about the program rather than following it blindly, but being quick to see what the program IS is handy there.

Anyway, I agree that computers are of pretty limited usefulness to preschoolers, particularly compared to other things they could be doing, and when they do use them it should be mostly with adult interaction as well. However, I think computer literacy is important in the concrete operational period (about 7-11 years old on average) because that's when kids' brains are really primed to pick it up. It appears to be harder to learn totally new computer skills after about age 12, just as it's harder to learn to speak a new language really fluently after that point.
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