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do some kids just need to cry (OR) let's talk naps - Page 3

post #41 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplemoon View Post
BABIES NEED A NAP! And I thank you to the mama's that work that extra shift workig towards it. You rock!!!!

The thing is that we aren't talking about a baby!!! We're talking about a toddler who's making the shift into being a kid. If it was a baby, then I'd agree with you. But 22mo is NOT a baby!
post #42 of 119
My kid was a terrible sleeper. The only way to get him to nap for a good year and a half was to put him in the stroller and walk (or carseat and drive, but I was usually too tired to be safe to drive). I honestly believe part of the reason it worked was that he could not keep moving to keep himself awake.

And we went through a week or two where he cried while I pushed. He'd start crying at just about the point in our walk where he usually fell asleep, then about 10 minutes later he'd be asleep. The first day I wasn't sure what to do, but figured I'd give it a few minutes to see if he'd calm down and go to sleep--I was a good 15 minutes from the house anyway. After that week he stopped with the crying. And he continued to nap for over a year, eventually learning to go to sleep in his bed. So he was not dropping his nap at all.

Not all kids are good at self-regulation. And sleep is really important.

Catherine
post #43 of 119
My DD used to fall asleep in our backpack carrier when she was too busy to settle down. We've also done 'sleepy rides' in the car. She did drop her nap at 26 months. Before then her nap slowly got later and later, and we did have a cranky, difficult to get to sleep child during the transition.

My DD seems to need movement to go to sleep. She used to wrestle with her blanket while nursing to sleep as a small toddler. Now at almost 4 she rolls around under the covers for 5 to 20 minutes while I lay still and boring. A couple of months ago she'd just lie still and nurse to sleep. Now that she doesn't want much milk she has to wrestle her pillow and quilt. The point is that their needs change, and with some people movement actually helps them go to sleep.
post #44 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
The thing is that we aren't talking about a baby!!! We're talking about a toddler who's making the shift into being a kid. If it was a baby, then I'd agree with you. But 22mo is NOT a baby!
It might be in the perspective then because I fully believe a 22 month old is still a baby.
post #45 of 119
It sounds like she's saying she doesn't want to sleep then. I would try a few things:

I would try pushing the nap earlier to see if she's overtired.

I would then try pushing the nap back a bit to see if she's just not ready quiet yet.

And then, I would try giving up the nap but putting the bedtime earlier to make up for it.

My dd gave up her nap around that time, and went to bed earlier, and was happier with that schedule. All kids are different, though. I will say that I wouldn't personally be comfortable forcing a child to sleep who appeared to be communicating a desire not to sleep.
post #46 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrogger View Post
It might be in the perspective then because I fully believe a 22 month old is still a baby.
me too. when my first was 22 months old she seemed practically like an adult. Now my youngest still seems like a tiny little thing just now becoming a big kid at 6.


under two is still very very much a baby.
post #47 of 119
My ds would cry for a few minutes every single time I laid him down, no matter what. I think he needed the release to relax and sleep. He rarely cried otherwise.
post #48 of 119
My 2.5 yr old still NEEDS a nap daily. She would not function without one. While I don't have to hold her to get her to go to sleep if that is what it took I would.

My 6m old needs me to hold her sometimes to sleep. I will keep her hands down or she will pinch, pull, and scratch at me, my breast, or her face/hair when she can seem to figure out what to do to get to sleep. Sometimes I need to nurse/hold her like that while soothing her and other times I can just lay her down and she is out.

Every kid is different and if you need to tweek things in order to make them work then do so.
post #49 of 119
my nearly 4 yo still naps every day at 3 p.m. (almost time to get started now actually...) sometimes he likes to say he doesn't need a nap but after a story and me lying down with him for a minute, he's out in no time. ds2 however? he doesn't nap very much but he'll come to me when he's tired. i have a feeling he'll be one of those kids to give up naps early but i sure hope not. if he does, you better bet i'm still going to ask him to take quiet time and play in his room.
OP, you are doing what you need to do as a mama. it's not like you're strapping your LO down and leaving her to cry in bed alone in a dark room. if she's going to be cranky without a nap, it makes total sense that you would want her to nap then. and it's nice as a mama to have time alone while she's sleeping too. she's nearly 2 yo; i'm sure she can handle crying a little in mama's arms. sometimes kids think they need something different than they actually do but we know what they're like if they don't get those naps. heck, i know what i'm like if I don't get enough sleep!
it's going WAY too far to try to make it sound like a mama rocking a fussing child to sleep is doing something wrong.
post #50 of 119
Keep doing what you're doing. It's not crying it out. You want your child to grow and learn. It's awfully hard to do when you don't get enough sleep. I have a 21 month old and he still needs a nap most assuredly.

I just have to say, he falls he asleep much easier when it's earlier like 10 or 11 then later in the day.

And this is coming from someone whose older two children dropped their naps on and off starting around 2.5. 22 months is not 2 and a half.
post #51 of 119
I read somewhere that a lot of toddlers stop napping at 18 months...sometimes I think naps are more for parents than children in some peoples cases. All 4 of my older kids (I have 5 the youngest is 7 months)stopped napping by 22mo. My 7 month old is not napping much except maybe 20 min here and there. If my kids take a nap then they do and thats fine with me, if they dont I dont force it or try to talk them into it. The only time I request that they sleep is at bed time and they usually just go right to sleep so its a win win situation.
post #52 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrogger View Post
It might be in the perspective then because I fully believe a 22 month old is still a baby.

I cannot imagine thinking about a 22mo as a baby. IMO "baby" ends around 15/16 months. That's when they start to change.
post #53 of 119
YOU ,dear momma, are doing just fine. Everyone is going to have different opinions so don't sweat it. Honestly, I do NOT always believe a child will sleep when it needs to. I mean, yes, eventually I guess they could collapse from exhaustion.. but I don't think that's too healthy. My babe will stay up playing until the wee hours of the morning if I let her, but I can tell she's exhausted.. She'll lay down in the middle of the floor and start to drift off then jerk her pap out so she'll wake up. They get miserable when it's like that. I DO hold her and try to get her to sleep.. I mean I obviously don't hold her down while she cries hysterically, but she whines some. I'm not rigid at all, but I TRY to get her to bed at a decent hour everynight. I'm sorry but EVERYONE needs a decent night's rest. Period..
post #54 of 119
Aletha Solter has a couple of books about this subject: The Aware Baby and Tears and Tantrums. She recommends allowing children to cry as a way to relieve stress, although she is very clear that you should NEVER LET A CHILD CRY ALONE and always hold your child in a comfortable and safe place where the child can feel safe letting out strong emotions.

Personally, I agree. It's been wonderful for DS to help him relieve his strong emotions; he gets much more restful sleep afterward, or if he's not ready for sleep, he ends up much calmer and clear-headed. I think what you're doing is fine.
post #55 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadelbosque View Post
Another vote for thinking that sometimes you really do HAVE to stop them from moving. My DS will reach a point of tiredness where he simply refuses to stop moving - because he knows if he stops, he WILL fall asleep. And he doesn't want to fall asleep, so he just keeps moving. DH and I can spot it too - he gets this super-tired look on his face, gets super winey and will run from you and just generally refuse to stop moving. At one point, I did generally have to hold him and rock him and listen to him cry for a few minutes just to get him calmed down enough that he could/would fall asleep. Now he will generally lay down and rest and fall asleep while we read stories. But he didn't used to, he used to need help.
I totally agree here. I care for a 28 month old who is having trouble with his naps since his mom stopped BFing him recently (partially due to the movement issues) and he moves a lot while he settles down. I lay with him on the bed for 20 minutes today and he would not stop moving. I could see that his eyes were trying to close to sleep but he kept moving his mouth, touching his bears, adjusting the covers, etc. etc. I did gently put his hands away from his face and under the covers a few times but the fact that he kept moving meant that he never fell asleep.

So while he rested for about 30 minutes properly, the rest of his "nap" he spent singing and talking and moving around, and I knew that by around 5 pm he would be a wreck.
post #56 of 119
I agree 100% with what pioyt had to say....if I wouldn't do it to my DH or want someone to do it to me...I don't do it.


We have never ever had a routine sleep time/nap schedule or anything like that...people in our house sleep when they are tired, wake up when they are ready to to play or work again and eat when they're hungry, etc...we just don't fight about sleep around here...but maybe DD is just "one of those kids" who sleeps well...I don't know, we have never had a problem.

I believe that the body knows when it needs to shut down and recharge, just like it knows when it needs to refuel...there have been times when DD has been so tired she could hardly walk straight...but if I tried to suggest sleep to her she wasn't game and became upset...so, generally, she tells me when she needs to go to sleep and THOSE times when I bring her to the big bed to lay down she sighs and giggles and wiggles her feet....so, I don't know. I would rather promote a relationship with sleep that has her giggling and toe wiggling than wailling....I know a lady with a son who won't even go into his room to play because he won't go near his crib, if he even SEES his crib he starts freaking out, I'm guessing because he thinks he is about to be forced to go to sleep and he knows that it will mean crying and struggling, etc...that's terrible. I would hate to have a kid who associated his place of rest and dreaming with fear, crying and upset.


Sistees, someone above said it best "You know your childs needs the best" - so...do what your gut is telling you to do I guess...I agree with a PP who said that sometimes kids in that age range are too "thirsty for life" to want to go to sleep when they're tired...I remember when I was a kid being like that with the bathroom...my body was clearly telling me I needed to go to the bathroom but I didn't want to go inside because I was having too much fun playing...so, a couple of times that ended up being a not-so-great decision, if you know what I mean!
post #57 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by PikkuMyy View Post
I totally agree here. I care for a 28 month old who is having trouble with his naps since his mom stopped BFing him recently (partially due to the movement issues) and he moves a lot while he settles down. I lay with him on the bed for 20 minutes today and he would not stop moving. I could see that his eyes were trying to close to sleep but he kept moving his mouth, touching his bears, adjusting the covers, etc. etc. I did gently put his hands away from his face and under the covers a few times but the fact that he kept moving meant that he never fell asleep.

So while he rested for about 30 minutes properly, the rest of his "nap" he spent singing and talking and moving around, and I knew that by around 5 pm he would be a wreck.

And most kids are a wreck by 5pm when they drop their naps regardless of the age they do it at.

That's what's so irritating about this thread. A 2yo will be a wreck for a couple weeks as their bodies adjust, and so will a 5yo. That doesn't mean we should continue to hold down a 5yo so they nap.

To those of you who agree with physically restraining a child (not a baby) to make them nap, what age would you do this to? Would you keep doing it to a 3yo? 4yo? 5yo? I know a 6yo who still naps a few times a week. His mom has NEVER had to restrain him. I know plenty of 18mo who are dropping their naps or who have dropped them completely.
post #58 of 119
honestly if some of us fought sleep like toddlers did and got plain crazy, violent, mean etc from depriving ourselves of sleep (intentionally or because we were too far gone to know we needed it for our mental and physical well being) someone likely would hold us down and force us to sleep against our will. They may lock us up and restrainin us and force drugs into us until we were sane again. An over tired child gets manic and needs intervention. They have not learned to self regulate (and I do not believe the ability to self regulate is an inborn skill in everyone. My oldest had to be taught to self regulate her feeding and my second could not self regulate sleep)
post #59 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post
I agree 100% with what pioyt had to say....if I wouldn't do it to my DH or want someone to do it to me...I don't do it.


We have never ever had a routine sleep time/nap schedule or anything like that...people in our house sleep when they are tired, wake up when they are ready to to play or work again and eat when they're hungry, etc...we just don't fight about sleep around here...but maybe DD is just "one of those kids" who sleeps well...I don't know, we have never had a problem.
I believe that the body knows when it needs to shut down and recharge, just like it knows when it needs to refuel...there have been times when DD has been so tired she could hardly walk straight...but if I tried to suggest sleep to her she wasn't game and became upset...so, generally, she tells me when she needs to go to sleep and THOSE times when I bring her to the big bed to lay down she sighs and giggles and wiggles her feet....so, I don't know. I would rather promote a relationship with sleep that has her giggling and toe wiggling than wailling....I know a lady with a son who won't even go into his room to play because he won't go near his crib, if he even SEES his crib he starts freaking out, I'm guessing because he thinks he is about to be forced to go to sleep and he knows that it will mean crying and struggling, etc...that's terrible. I would hate to have a kid who associated his place of rest and dreaming with fear, crying and upset.


Sistees, someone above said it best "You know your childs needs the best" - so...do what your gut is telling you to do I guess...I agree with a PP who said that sometimes kids in that age range are too "thirsty for life" to want to go to sleep when they're tired...I remember when I was a kid being like that with the bathroom...my body was clearly telling me I needed to go to the bathroom but I didn't want to go inside because I was having too much fun playing...so, a couple of times that ended up being a not-so-great decision, if you know what I mean!
I think this is why there are such opposite opinions in this thread - everyone is approaching this from the perspective of their own experiences with their own children. Before I had my second son, I would've been horrified at the thought of physically restraining a young child to force them to sleep! I completely understand where the OP is coming from, though. I've had to do the same thing with my youngest, now 26 months. This child, bless his heart, has gone through stages where he will refuse to sleep and gets so overtired that not only is he unable to walk straight, but he is literally stumbling around crying, hitting, throwing things, and thrashing around on the floor banging his head. All because he is so overtired. IMO the kindest thing to do was to hold him for 5-10 minutes until he gave in and fell asleep in my arms, rather than let the tantrums continue for 45 minutes or more. Trust me, there are kids who sometimes just will not settle down without that extra help.

Btw, most of the time he has a great attitude towards sleep. Right now he's happily napping next to me, and 98% of the time he goes to sleep by himself at night, no problem. Developmental leaps seem to trigger the issues. My 4yo has pretty much always been able to self-regulate in this regard and has never had a single problem with sleep.
post #60 of 119
My dd is almost 4yo and still really needs a nap on most days (and I definitely think that 22 months is very much still a baby!) That said, I couldn't hold her in bed and let her thrash and cry until she fell asleep. What we do, whenever I sense that she's getting worn out, is she picks out one story to read/short video to watch (like a 2 minutes youtube type thing- lately the trailer for the Wild Things movie), then she gets in the ergo on my front, has a bite of snack, I turn out the lights and sway while I read on the computer (it's on the bar in my kitchen, so I'm standing up)-- after about 5 mintues I can transfer her to he rbed, where she'll sleep for 2 hours. I am VERY grateful that we've found something that still works, as she absolutely will not lay down in bad for a nap anymore, and won't even fall asleep in the car unless she's REALLY tired. I guess if I was in the situation of the OP, I'd probably keep trying to find different ways to help her happily move into a position where she's likely to fall asleep (by the way- I can NEVER say "it's time for a nap" or my dd will fight it tooth and nail) We also don't enforce any sort of bedtime, etc. at our house- so we're a bit more laid back about sleep than many people I know, but I also just really feel like that rest is so important for her- especially since she likes to stay up later in the evening to spend time with daddy and is a WRECK without it (I wouldn't want her to drop nap and go to bed at 6pm and never see her father- even if that's what she would eventually adjust to doing) I do agree that the crying described here is less than ideal, especially if it's going on for more than a couple of minutes- but it sounds like you're doing your best. I owuldn't beat myself up about it, but I'd recognise that kids change fast, and the gentler method that didn't work last week might work now. Good luck!
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