18 mnth old hates car/car seat!

[Camile Rynd]

My best friend and I disagree on how to handle this, and we both claim to be attachment parents, so I thought I'd ask for all of your advice/help in order to get some other views on how to deal with this.

My son has ALWAYS hated to be in a car seat for very long. He's always cried and arched his back and screamed, sometimes for as long as an entire hour and a half car ride. He is an outdoorsy/busy boy and needs a lot of different input in order to stay relaxed.

When he started to talk he began to cry and ask for cuddles and nummies (nursing) and to get down. I tell him that we all have to stay in our seat while we're in the car and he screams and cries big tears.

My best friend says to ignore him, that he is trying to manipulate me and that if I ignore him long enough he will stop asking to get out of his seat. I say that I should continue to reassure him and remind him that we are all in our car seats and we need to stay there as long as we're in the car.

What do you think?

[nelson]

My DS is 16 months and the same way. If it is a short trip, then I try to talk with him, roll down the window, sing etc. If it is a long trip, like it was for us last weekend, 3 hrs. We stopped to nurse and then he still screamed when we put him back in, so the only option we had was to ignore it, because talking to him was not helping and I was losing my mind. At some point I felt like my talking to him was actually making him more upset, so we just rolled down the windows. I think that you just have to watch your DS for cues to see if anything you are doing is working or if it just is making things worse.

[JL83]

What can your sanity handle?

I think it's probably better to reassure the kid and try to talk them through it. But there's only so much people can take.

My DD was like that and we finally, in desperation while stuck in traffic, turned up some music quite loud because we could not handle it any more. It was like magic and she settled down. After that we learned that she had music tastes (industrial and grunge) and if we played music she liked she tolerated the car.

But I will agree that there was a point where we were making her madder by doing things. Like if I sat in the car next to her she would flip out. She could not understand why I would sit there and not pick her up.

In the end I guess we kind of did CIO about it. There wasn't a choice about going in the car so we had to have her learn that there wasn't any way to get out of it. She would have to be in her carseat and that was that.

It did get better for us around 18 months. She got old enough to start playing with toys in the car and even looking at books.

[TopHat]

For short trips, I tell my DD what we're doing. "We're going to get daddy from school!" The word "daddy" gets her really excited and she'll calm down because we're looking forward to something. I've also found giving her something to play with is nice. The other day we were coming back from the library and she was just screaming. Giving her a book helped a lot (thought not completely).

[lonegirl]

We have travelled (8h car trips a few times a month) since he was only a couple weeks old. I sat with him in the back while he was rear facing or else he was upset. I think he was lonely and all he had to look at was the chair...he had lots of toys but was very segregated from us otherwise. At 18months we switched him to FF and like a charm he was happy and spent most of the time playing/watching movies or sleeping...and chatting with us of course.
I think each child is different on how to keep them happy...but I always reaffirm with him that we ALL have to sit and wear our seatbelts when we are driving.

[denimtiger]

We had the same issues in our house, and there's just really no way around it. Sometimes we just HAVE to go in the car.

I'm not big into screen time, but a cheap portable DVD player attached to the headrest where she could see it literally saved both of our sanity.

[caenach]

DD has never been a big fan of the carseat. She's hated it since birth. We hardly travel, because of this, unless we can fly. And I keep trips short when possible.

She genuinely gets upset--I don't really think she has the capacity to "be manipulative" in any kind of overt sense. Obviously she is going to try to use her few tools (body language, vocalization) to tell us what she needs/wants, and what she needs/wants is to be out of the carseat! She doesn't like being strapped in back there alone. Maybe she would stop if we ignored her...but I don't see why we can't try to provide some reassurance/comfort to her when travel is a necessary evil. It doesn't hurt us to sing a little or say soothing things to her. Sometimes she just has to deal and she does cry for awhile, but at least she hears her mama and daddy talking to her.

Sometimes, if we're doing something she understands, we can talk about where we're going and she'll stay relaxed. "We're going to the park. Do you want to swing when we get to the park? Would you like to go down the slide? Do you think we'll see some dogs at the park?"

We sing. A lot. We have established car-calming songs, usually repetitive things like "Wheels on the Bus" (that's DH's fallback) or "Old MacDonald" (that's mine). DD is really into animal noises, so she'll be quiet for "Old MacDonald" as long as I can keep thinking of animals!

Sometimes having a sippy cup or something to hold/chew on helps. DD does not "take" a bottle or a pacifier, but she's been known to play with one while in the carseat. Today she held one of her favorite soft bunnies. She also likes to read those soft "quiet books" while in her carseat.

I offer to hold her hand when she's upset. I know this is probably dangerous while driving to some extent, but then so is being distracted by a screaming infant. When she gets really worked up, reaching back to hold her hand for 5 minutes seems to help her. I just say "Would you like to hold Mama's hand for a minute until you feel better?" She puts her hand up, we clasp hands for a few minutes, and often that's all she needs to fall asleep.

[Abraisme]

Originally Posted by caenach

DD has never been a big fan of the carseat. She's hated it since birth. We hardly travel, because of this, unless we can fly. And I keep trips short when possible.

She genuinely gets upset--I don't really think she has the capacity to "be manipulative" in any kind of overt sense. Obviously she is going to try to use her few tools (body language, vocalization) to tell us what she needs/wants, and what she needs/wants is to be out of the carseat! She doesn't like being strapped in back there alone. Maybe she would stop if we ignored her...but I don't see why we can't try to provide some reassurance/comfort to her when travel is a necessary evil. It doesn't hurt us to sing a little or say soothing things to her. Sometimes she just has to deal and she does cry for awhile, but at least she hears her mama and daddy talking to her.

Sometimes, if we're doing something she understands, we can talk about where we're going and she'll stay relaxed. "We're going to the park. Do you want to swing when we get to the park? Would you like to go down the slide? Do you think we'll see some dogs at the park?"

We sing. A lot. We have established car-calming songs, usually repetitive things like "Wheels on the Bus" (that's DH's fallback) or "Old MacDonald" (that's mine). DD is really into animal noises, so she'll be quiet for "Old MacDonald" as long as I can keep thinking of animals!

Sometimes having a sippy cup or something to hold/chew on helps. DD does not "take" a bottle or a pacifier, but she's been known to play with one while in the carseat. Today she held one of her favorite soft bunnies. She also likes to read those soft "quiet books" while in her carseat.

I offer to hold her hand when she's upset. I know this is probably dangerous while driving to some extent, but then so is being distracted by a screaming infant. When she gets really worked up, reaching back to hold her hand for 5 minutes seems to help her. I just say "Would you like to hold Mama's hand for a minute until you feel better?" She puts her hand up, we clasp hands for a few minutes, and often that's all she needs to fall asleep.

I'm the "friend" that thinks his behavior should be ignored..

I think that talking to him would be fine, if it worked. Nothing actually seems to work.. Camille will offer everything she can think of and he'll just get more and more worked up. Also, he's not usually alone in the backseat, he's with a baby and a 5 year old. I think it's fair to remind him when we get in the car where we're going and that he has to stay in his seat, but not the whole way there.. Also, her child is 18 months which is a lot older than your 14 month old. There's a lot of development that happens in those months.

He won't play with toys, he won't interact with my son, he doesn't want water.. He simply cries no matter what she does. At what point do you keep comforting him. He's a smart kid, he knows that he has to stay in his seat.. I really don't know what the perfect answer is, my son never did this..

[denimtiger]

I'm the "friend" that thinks his behavior should be ignored..

I think that talking to him would be fine, if it worked. Nothing actually seems to work.. Camille will offer everything she can think of and he'll just get more and more worked up. Also, he's not usually alone in the backseat, he's with a baby and a 5 year old. I think it's fair to remind him when we get in the car where we're going and that he has to stay in his seat, but not the whole way there.. Also, her child is 18 months which is a lot older than your 14 month old. There's a lot of development that happens in those months.

He won't play with toys, he won't interact with my son, he doesn't want water.. He simply cries no matter what she does. At what point do you keep comforting him. He's a smart kid, he knows that he has to stay in his seat.. I really don't know what the perfect answer is, my son never did this..

It's incredibly nerve-wracking and heart wrenching when your child does this. Eighteen months is not so different than fourteen months when it comes to a child's ability to "manipulate." He is NOT manipulating her, he is genuinely upset, and not able to just control his emotions.

As her friend, I can understand how frustrating it must be for you, listening to him cry in the car. It's horrible for anyone to listen to that in the car, really I understand that it is. And I understand that when we're frustrated by something like that (and you clearly are frustrated) it's easy for negative emotions and ideas (like a tiny child manipulating) can jump into our heads. It sounds like car rides are emotionally hard for YOU, because first of all you have to listen to the screaming, and secondly your friend is spending the entire trip consoling her son (and it's not helping), rather than paying attention to and conversng with you.

It would probably help the conversation and idea flow between the two of you if you worked on removing the negative emotions about her child, stop calling him manipulative and be sympathetic that this is a very real issue, which she did NOT cause, and she wishes would stop much, much more than you do. I'm sure the child wishes that car rides were a much happier time, too.

To the OP - He is not manipulating you. It's possible, though, that he is feeding off of hearing your voice the whole time - my daughter sometimes was - and it sometimes helped to reassure her at first, and then stop talking to her for a bit. I never completely ignored her, but would just attempt to be quiet and listen to music, and she sometimes would get calmer after a few minutes. It might not hurt to try it for a couple of rides and see if it helps.

With MY daughter, what would actually set her off the worst... is if she could hear me talkng to someone else on a car ride -- another passenger, or even on my Bluetooth. To this day, in fact (and she's 28 months now, and has been a lot better in the car for quite awhile) she's most likely to have a hard time in the car if I talk to someone besides her.

[laurelg]

In my opinion, the key point when it comes to CIO is reassurance vs. abandonment. A child stuck unhappily in a carseat who is touched (when possible), talked to, reassured, may be unhappy - but they are not abandoned. I do not see one whit of difference between ignoring a crying child in a carseat and ignoring a crying baby in a crib.

We all have to make choices, and sometimes we have to do things our kids don't want to do. My DD went through a phase where she didn't want to be in the carseat for more than like, TWO MINUTES. She is still not a big fan. I sit in the back with her when possible, and when not, I talk to her, reassure her, sing along with the radio, etc. If she's really freaking out, I pull over.

We don't go on long car trips for this reason. I've put my foot down about it - I'm not willing to subject DD to hours of misery for the sake of a vacation or visiting distant family.

I absolutely would not ignore a crying child in a carseat in hopes they would eventually give up and stop. That just... that's the essence of CIO, in my opinion.

[Abraisme]

Okay, it's fair that he shouldn't be flat out ignored. However, most of the time he's sitting in the back with a 5 year old that would be happy to interact with him if he would stop crying. It seems that by 18 months if a couple of rounds of CIO will stop the crying, then it's worth it (as he's crying anyway). In the long run he wouldn't be crying, which would be better for everyone's sanity.. Also, he will often trigger my 2 month old to start crying and then it's even worse.. I agree that it's not flat out manipulation, but it is a tantrum. At what age do you start ignoring tantrums so that they don't feed on themselves? Like I said before, I wish there was an easy answer here.. Nothing seems to be working..

[laurelg]

Originally Posted by Abraisme

It seems that by 18 months if a couple of rounds of CIO will stop the crying, then it's worth it (as he's crying anyway).

No, it's not, and I'm pretty sure to advocate CIO is a UA violation, too.

I think you need to let your friend parent her child as she sees fit. If you have a problem with her attempts to comfort her child, take two cars.

[Peony]

*deep breathes*

I'm trying to stay with in the UA here. First off, CIO is not in line with MDC's philosophy. Second, this is the OP's child, friends get no input, if it bothers others then they shouldn't be riding in the car.


I had a child like the OP's, still creamed bloody murder in the car at 18m, it got better at 2 years of age. Guess what though, she is almost 7 now and still just tolerates the car because it get gets her from point A to point B. We still don't take car trips unless we have to, some adults don't like to ride/drive, children are not immune to that either. Just ignoring her in the backseat was never an option, she wouldn't allow herself to be ignored, which is a good tract to have by the way. We had and still work around her limitations. If this was an adult who didn't like to ride in the car would we be talking about discipline? I think not.

[denimtiger]

Originally Posted by laurelg

No, it's not, and I'm pretty sure to advocate CIO is a UA violation, too.

I think you need to let your friend parent her child as she sees fit. If you have a problem with her attempts to comfort her child, take two cars.

You seem to be getting awfully worked up and frustrated over what is going on with your friend's child. I understand that it's hard to listen to. I understand that sometimes your child cries in the car when this is going on.

And this is why there are so many battles between people who ATTACHMENT parent, and other people who are otherwise involved in the child's life. You don't feel the way the OP does because YOU are not attached to HER child in the way that she is. So the screaming is bothersome to you, and you just really want her to do ANYTHING to make the bothering you (and perhaps your child) stop.

Calling it a tantrum, or manipulation, or anything that you can think of that makes the whole situation the child's fault, and him deserve some particular treatment (CIO or whatever), is not really helping and supporting your friend. Lots of people support their children through tantrums and don't just completely ignore them, either.

He's a tiny baby, really, he is. I know it's hard to see that when you have a teeny tiny one -- but 18 months is SO YOUNG. He doesn't really know why he has to be strapped into one spot and stay put -- he has no idea. Maybe he's getting carsick, and spends an entire ride strapped, away from his mom, and feeling miserable. Who knows, but it's a very real problem to him, and he may need to grow some more to work through it. He's not screaming to bother anyone. He's not screaming because the entertainment provided by a baby and a five-year-old aren't "good enough" for him and he wants a three-ring circus instead. He's screaming because he's scared and out of control of his situation and he's strapped down to boot.


If you believe in CIO, fine, practice it on your own kids. But don't tell your friend that you share parenting beliefs and then come down on her for actually following through with her beliefs, even when it's challenging.

If the car rides are too much for your frustration level to handle, that's fine too. Be honest about it, and solve the problem the best you can -- take another car. But it's really hard enough to have a car screamer without someone telling you that it's happening because you haven't done what they think you should do, especially when that way is so disjointed from parenting ideals that you hold dear.

[laurelg]

Originally Posted by denimtiger

But it's really hard enough to have a car screamer without someone telling you that it's happening because you haven't done what they think you should do, especially when that way is so disjointed from parenting ideals that you hold dear.

I want to reinforce this. It is not FUN to have a child who hates the car. It is not CUTE. Parents of such children do not dismiss it as no-big-deal.

The rare times I had to ride in a car with other people while DD was flipping out, I found myself apologizing the entire time. So, I'd alternate between trying to comfort her, trying not to stress out, and apologizing to other people. One time in particular, we had to take an airport shuttle to our hotel - DD was up WAY too late, it had been a stressful day, she was TEETHING, and then she wound up in a carseat. She screamed and screamed and there was NOTHING I could do save for console her. I kept apologizing to the other shuttle passengers because I was mortified - I didn't want them to sit there and think ill of us! My DD is such a sweetheart, and I just wanted them to understand that her car behavior was an anomaly. I felt awful and it was emotionally exhausting.

The very last thing I needed that day was someone telling me to just ignore her or that their child had never done "that." Fortunately, nobody did. I would be devastated if my best friend took that attitude with me, and frankly, it would be damaging to the friendship.

[Abraisme]

Okay, I think everyone has over-estimated the severity of this situation..

Both of us really just wanted an answer that would help her child stop crying.. This has not hurt our friendship in any way. It was a small dispute about what's the best way to handle her child and if there's an actual solution to make it better.. We are in a car together a lot because she does not drive or have her own car. It's simply not an option for us to go places separately (which I do not mind at all).. We have a very good relationship where we bounce idea's off of each other and grow as people and parents..

I have a question.. At what age does CIO end? I don't think one should ever let an infant cry, but by the time they're toddlers there are simply fits that must be ignored.. I'm certainly going to walk away from my 5 year old if he's throwing a tantrum to let him "cry-it-out".

I know that her child is not carsick because he's perfectly happy if he's taken out of his seat while the car is going. He's just a really active child that does like to sit still. He has a strong will and wants to be doing what HE wants to be doing..

Camille really just wanted to see if there's an answer to helping her child over-come this. However, it really seems that most people simply do what she does anyway.. Offer up just about everything, reassure him a few times and then let him be because nothing else is working. I suppose that really is the only choice until he out-grows this.

[Abraisme]

Originally Posted by Peony

*deep breathes*

I'm trying to stay with in the UA here. First off, CIO is not in line with MDC's philosophy. Second, this is the OP's child, friends get no input, if it bothers others then they shouldn't be riding in the car.

She's riding in my car because she does not drive. It's not an option for us to go places separately and we hang out a lot. We were both trying to solve a problem and make her child feel better in the long run..

[WC_hapamama]

Honestly, I'd try to find a better way to distract the kiddo. Not riding in the car seat is not negotiable, and it's probably not a good idea to have the driver distracted by a toddler throwing a tantrum.

I disagree that 18 month olds can't be manipulative... they most certainly can be, but generally the intent isn't bad. 18 month olds do understand cause and effect to an extent. In this case the problem lies in the fact that a toddler really doesn't understand the whole "safety" and "law" aspect of needing to ride in the car seat.

I do have a friend who had a similar problem with a couple of her kids... she didn't have a car or drive at the time either (neither the other parent), so her kids really weren't used to riding in the car. Music worked as a good distraction for her kids. She'd make sure her kids were clean, fed and comfy, then have her mom flip the music on.

[Camile Rynd]

I feel like perhaps I let this spiral out of control by not following up quickly enough.

Abra is my best friend, she was there for me the night the baby was born, and sat with him all night holding him so that he didn't need to be in the nursery at the hospital. She wore him/cared for him/and is attached to him. She IS an attachment parent. Her new baby has virtually never been put down, breast feeds, and co-sleeps. She donates breast milk to another woman so that her baby doesn't suffer from constipation and rashes that formula inflicts. She really is amazing, but sometimes we disagree.

So, that said.

It does seem that my trying to console him only makes him more upset. In classic fit style, he will say no to any toy/book/juice/food that is offered, swatting at it and sometimes throwing it. His cries continue to escalate until we stop traveling and he is out of his seat, with few exceptions.

These moments make it very difficult for everyone in the car, as you can imagine. I was just hoping that some of you could offer advice on when it ends or if it ends. If any of you had any other tricks to try and help him understand.

At this point I have accepted that riding in the car = long periods of screaming from him, sympathy crying from Abra's 2 month old, and whining from her 5 year old who is down right miserable over all of the crying.

[verilyI]

I am very sympathetic to your situation because my DD was a little spitfire every time I got her in the carseat. She screamed and screamed. It went on for two years, I'm sorry to say, and I know what you mean about consolation tactics just making her react more dramatically and angrily. It was like if I offered her anything or anyone tried to comfort her at all, it would just remind her that she was mad. I do feel like leaving her alone was the best option, like "calm down" time later when she was older. She needed to not be prodded and reminded of the situation at all. But of course this was also imperfect and she never tolerated being in the carseat until the day we turned her around. That was like a whole new world for her. I think she had more things to look at and distract her. I'm not advocating turning the carseat around prematurely, by the way. I'm just telling you when the tide turned for us.