WWYD/just need to be sad - Page 3

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Pigpokey - I have had the opposite experience.

When my son was around 3 his siter was born. My previously potty trained child started having lots of accidents. Yeah, I know why - his sister ws born - but it did not make it any easier.....

After engaging in a power struggle for months (including Dh -who thought we would be "regressing" if we put him in diaprs again) I put my foot down. I said this was not working, and he could go in diapers again until he forgot we ever had a power strugle - and then, when the time was right, we (or he) would initiate retraining. He was out of diapers 3 weeks later - on his own accord.

But you did consequence him beautifully. You put him back in diapers. He didn't like it so he stopped peeing himself. Right? What in fact didn't work was what you were doing before, which probably included telling him you didn't like him peeing himself.

I myself have had great success with the "pull-up consequence" for pattern daytime accidents in the 4-5 year old set.

[daisymama12]

OP, it'll all work out!!! s


My son was urinating really frequently (several times an hour) when he was around 5. I took him to the dr. just to make sure everything was ok. It was, & he told me that about Pollakiuria or EDUFS . The child feels a real need to pee really often. Nothing's wrong, and it passes on its own - but the urge they feel is real.

This may not ring true for your DD, but it totally applied to our situation, which did pass on its own.

[crl]

When DS was about 3 1/2 he started complaining that his tummy hurt. He started this immediately after we read Curious George Goes to the Hospital, where George has a tummy ache. So, right, he's pretending. He had no other symptoms and he complained intermittantly, mostly at times he was being asked to do something he did not want to do.

I mentioned it to more than one doctor as he persisted over a course of months. All agreed that he was just pretending.

I finally decided that he had been so persistent about it that I was obligated to pursue it. I hauled him back to the doctor and said, I know we think he's just pretending, but I really need to have any possible physical cause ruled out. We did a shotgun approach of testing.

Turns out he is allergic to milk. And I still feel like crap that we didn't figure it out sooner. I did talk to doctors about it, but I didn't push, you know?

Anyway, I know that you do not think there is any physical cause. And you are the mom, so I defer to you! But I wanted to share our story because I now strongly believe that it is very important to rule-out physical issues even when it seems to all involved that the kid is just pretending.

Catherine

[LynnS6]

Have you read "Kids, Parents & Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka? It's one of my favorite parenting books (and it's a good general parenting book, despite the title).

I like the solutions that you've come up with. I think they'll work for you. Disengaging from a power struggle is hard.

As for the movie, is there any chance that it was a bit overwhelming for her? Three is pretty young for a movie in a theater, IMO. My kids are very sound sensitive and don't like to be in the theater because it's TOO LOUD. Dd also freaks out with the sound effects or anytime cellos play (i.e. dramatic tension building.) I can see them feeling uncomfortable, and 'needing' to go to the bathroom to escape, even if they couldn't articulate it.

Ds also needs to go to the bathroom a LOT when he's nervous. It's only now that he's 8 that he's beginning to be able to recognize the pattern. We talk a lot about our 'fight or flight' mechanism, and how when we're nervous, our body wants to get rid of all waste so it can run/fight better.

Finally, I'd caution you to still think of her as three, and not 'almost 4'. Our expectations for 4 year olds are different than our expectations of 3 year olds. Even a young 4 year old needs different handling than a 4 1/2 year old. She's young.

[nextcommercial]

OK.. I am going to assume that she is faking it. Kids do this, so it's entirely possible that she's liking this attention.

I honestly think I would plan a few really great afternoons for YOU. And, only YOU. For a few reasons... mostly because you SO deserve it, and wouldn't it be wonderful to go out and shop and spend a few hours in the bookstore???? But, also you can say in your most sympathetic voice "I know how hard it is for you to walk, so you get to stay home with Daddy". (make sure daddy is kinda busy with boring stuff)

Then go out and enjoy yourself! Maybe bring her a book home or a small treat.

This will either make her wish she didn't have these walking problems, or make her more obnoxious about it. You'll never know until you try.

BUT, you will have had a wonderful outing all to yourself, and hopefully a new novel to read while you wait for her to outgrow this.

By the way, I am 5 ft 10 inches, and I couldn't carry or drag a 50lb child either. So, I can't imagine how hard this is on your back. It hurts my back just to think about it.

[Twocoolboys]

I've got some previous experience with a similar issue. My now 5 yr old ds has had a few behaviors like this. First, he started peeing very frequently, like every five minutes back when he was 4. It went on long enough that I took him to the dr. They tested him for a couple of things, told me everything was fine and sent us home. Then, I made sure not to say anything to him about it at all. He got ZERO attention for it. If we were out and he said he had to pee, I quietly took him to the bathroom without commenting at all. After few days, the behaviour tappered off and was gone.

Then, about 6 months later, he started sighing all the time, every few minutes. I was starting to worry about his breathing, thinking that he was out of breath, or having trouble breathing. He had his 5 year old well-child visit soon after and I asked about it. Again, everything is fine. I, once again, made sure to make NO comments about it what so ever. This one took a bit longer to resolve, but it did in a few weeks.

Finally, about three weeks ago, I got a call from the school saying he wasn't moving his arm. I was not inclined to believe him, but I picked him up from school and made a doctor's app't anyway. I talked to the nurse in the hall, out of his hearing range, and told her a bit of the back story. The doctor came in, moved his elbow and said he had nursemaid's elbow. The doctor popped it back in place. After that, he could move his arm with no problem. It turns out that another kid pulled his arm on the playground. I thought for sure this was another affectation, but it turned out to be real.

I think it never hurts to go to the doctor to rule out any problems, even if you are sure there are none. Once you find out everything is ok, then ignore completely. If you are out and she goes limp, pick her up and put her in a stroller. She's still young enough for a stroller. Carry an umbrella stroller with you. Make no comment to her about it ever. It sounds like she's deeply entrenched in the behavior, so it may take several weeks to resolve.

[meemee]

i think its a great idea that pp suggested where you do your own thing without dd. if you can.

i also think this could be anxiety ridden. nothing may be wrong and doctors may not be able to find anything but at that moment your dd might be overwhelmed or stressed out. and yes a sign of my dd being stressed out is frequent urination and tummy aches too. in fact tummy aches are clues for me that something is up. it may be v. miniscule to us but huge for our kids.

yes its unfortunate that because you live so far - that you have to put so much in one day. i think too ur dd is going thru some sort of growth spurt. where things change how they view the world. almost 4 is an age of increased fear esp irrational fears.

i did think of the urine issue too - the poly.... however that is related to anxiety too.

this is extreme behavour. it is beyond manipulation. your dd is pretty smart if she has indeed found a way to get her way. while this very aspect of her personality is making you go bonkers now - it will be the exact thing that will make her successful as an adult in whatever she wants to.

[NiteNicole]

Finally, about three weeks ago, I got a call from the school saying he wasn't moving his arm. I was not inclined to believe him, but I picked him up from school and made a doctor's app't anyway. I talked to the nurse in the hall, out of his hearing range, and told her a bit of the back story. The doctor came in, moved his elbow and said he had nursemaid's elbow. The doctor popped it back in place. After that, he could move his arm with no problem. It turns out that another kid pulled his arm on the playground. I thought for sure this was another affectation, but it turned out to be real.

Oh OUCH. I winced reading that.

Have you read "Kids, Parents & Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka? It's one of my favorite parenting books (and it's a good general parenting book, despite the title).

I have to get this because this is our issue...well, this is the root of the very few issues we have.

Anyway, I know that you do not think there is any physical cause. And you are the mom, so I defer to you! But I wanted to share our story because I now strongly believe that it is very important to rule-out physical issues even when it seems to all involved that the kid is just pretending.

If she ever complained of pain, I would totally get her to a doctor but she doesn't. She can walk normally and does and now that I'm not walking while holding her hand and trying to hurry her along, she's not falling (aka falling to her knees on purpose).

It's not usual for us to have three days of errands but it's stacked up this way so I've had a lot of time to really look into how she operates. The first mention of "we need to hurry" and she's dragging her feet and hanging back. If no one mentions it, she's still moving at a slow toddler checking-everything-out pace but she's not dragging her feet.

Today we had to find shoes for her Halloween costume. She wants to be Alice in Wonderland and Alice has shiny black shoes (total side note but did you know there are size 10 little girl shoes with small heels? HEELS? Yeah, shocked me, too) and she walked all OVER the store just fine in her Alice shoes.

this is extreme behavour. it is beyond manipulation. your dd is pretty smart if she has indeed found a way to get her way.

It's not like she's even trying to get her way so much as she's dead set on setting the pace and will not be hurried.

I honestly think I would plan a few really great afternoons for YOU. And, only YOU. For a few reasons... mostly because you SO deserve it, and wouldn't it be wonderful to go out and shop and spend a few hours in the bookstore???? But, also you can say in your most sympathetic voice "I know how hard it is for you to walk, so you get to stay home with Daddy". (make sure daddy is kinda busy with boring stuff)

Wouldn't that be nice. Maybe I can pretend to leave and just go take a nap.

I'm going to have to figure out where we put the stroller. I may have given it away. I can't think where it could be.

Thanks again for all the ideas. I know I'm not responding to every single one but I promise I'm reading (and rereading) them!

[The4OfUs]

FWIW, if you're sure it's not an actual physical problem, when your'e out and about I would agree with the "don't comment on it" idea. I wouldn't ignore her, per se, but the behavior. So if it's going to the bathroom every 5 minutes, I'd do it 2 or 3 times without commenting on it, and then leave and just say something simple like, "we'll have to get home because if having to go to the bathroom so frequently" or something plain like that, then dropping it. Or if you have the stroller and she does the limp noodle thing, I'd not say anything and just put her in the stroller, or, "since you are having trouble walking, you'll need to ride". Basically, I would NOT engage in any discussion about it or any arguing about leaving or being in the stroller. Id' be kind, but firm, but almost bored, like it's not a big deal at all...think 'zen robot mama'.

[minkin03]

Originally Posted by no5no5

Yes, I read it. I would expect to see a progressive limp as a result of a real medical problem. I would expect it less in a faking situation. But let me be perfectly clear: A child who refuses for a week to walk without throwing herself to the ground every few steps, injuring herself in the process, is, IMO, a child who needs professional help, of one kind or another. Even if she is faking. Which, honestly, I think is far from clear.

I agree. While it sounds like she's probably faking it's best to be sure given her medical history. I have an almost 4 yo myself who pulls similar stunts all the time (especially the toilet one which drives me bonkers), just last week it was headaches (no other symptoms) it was hard to tell if she was really suffering from a headache or if she was just milking it for popsicles and movies (she had a stomach bug a few days earlier so I suspected she just wanted to have special treatment again).

[WinterStar]

I think sometimes children (and adults too!) simply get stuck in ruts, in patterns of behaviour that they maybe don't even know why they are doing them anymore.

You could try to "shock" your daughter out of her rut.....in a light hearted and fun kind of a way. Sitting down with a book and saying, "ohh, cool, I was hoping for a chance to finish this chapter" is one good idea already mentioned - I would add a few, "oooh, wow, hey, do you want me to read this part out to you, it's amazing!" .....there will be other ways. Have you tried developing your own limp? Or maybe a floppy arm when she *needs* your arms to be working? I don't know, it takes some thought to come up with a good one....but the basic gist of it for me would be to do something that 1) Completely takes her unawares, 2) Is funny, 3) Is FUN and inclusive for her. (it's important that she doesn't feel you are laughing at her)

She'll love the new dynamic, she'll limp like crazy to start with, so you keep having to do this new fun thing together, and then she'll let it go. She doesn't want to be doing this, (really, she doesn't!) - so you need to help her to change the energy around it. Do something really shocking, throw her a cheeky look and invite her to join you.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Oh man, I am not overflowing in the patience department and that dawdling would drive me out of my head.

People are going to disagree with me here, but here's the first thing that popped into my head after reading your last update:

I would tell her that if she can't walk properly she can't go trick-or-treating. I would not say it a threatening way, just matter-of-fact. We would tell our son that we are very worried that he can't use his legs properly and he has to show us that he can walk properly or we are afraid his legs aren't strong enough to go trick-or-treating in his costume.

Yup, I'm a meanie.

ETA: I would do this assuming it would work, b/c I can't imagine really keeping my child from t-or-t'ing. This is risky though b/c I know we aren't supposed to say things we can't follow through with.

[lucysmom]

I want to echo what some PPs a ways back said, that this calls for professional help, whether from a medical doctor or a psychologist. The reason it doesn't sound like attention-getting behavior to me is that, as you've explained, OP, your DD gets a lot of attention from you. That strongly suggests to me that the cause is physical, or some emotional/psychological issue that is NOT about attention. So denying attention wouldn't really seem to be a strategy that is likely to yield improvement.

I strongly support ruling out possible unusual physical explanations. When she isn't limping, often you say she is going slow. Maybe she doesn't identify it as "pain" but just as a periodic inability to walk normally? What if it is something that can occur intermittently (so that the times when she does walk normally don't mean there isn't actually an impediment the other times)?

[Subhuti]

Originally Posted by TinyMama

Just popping in here.

I can't imagine a healthy kid who could stay in bed all day for more than a day or two. This way, she gets to exert control over you, and it gives her a way to give up the limp while maintaining her dignity. I can't see any way for her to just stop if it is a power thing--she's protecting her pride here.

Great suggestion ... so beautiful!

Liz

[One_Girl]

I would have done the exact same thing. When my dd was four she was "sick" a lot unless we were going to go get candy or ice cream. She was also a cat a lot but we worked through that. I finally told her that we couldn't leave the house to go do fun things if she was sick and she miraculously recovered and stopped being sick so often. I have also left places because my child was distruptive and melodramatic because she isn't getting her way and I talk to her about why we are leaving. That has only had to happen a few times though and then she got decided that she could be happy with what she does get.
I think you should stick to a rule that fake limping and melodrama is for home only and then reinforce it. You should remind her of the rule before you go somewhere and then immediately leave and remind her why you are leaving if the limp comes and she doesn't stop the limp when reminded of the rule. I bet your dd will quickly decide to leave the limp at home. At the same time though, I think you need to find ways to give your dd more control over her life by giving her more decision making power. She may be trying to control what she can because she doesn't feel like she has a lot of control.

I do have one caution though about sticking to the rule when you are doing something boring. My dd figured out really quickly that we would leave if she had a fit in the store and it sounds like something your dd will probably also figure out. I suggest only leaving to sit in the car and keeping a book in the car. I did this maybe three times with my dd and then I only had to suggest going to the car for a break before she decided she could use self-control even if she was bored.

[Anastasiya]

I haven't read all the replies yet but my thought is to ignore it (the behavior, not the child).

When it happens at home, don't even comment on it.
Take her for little walks around the home or the property, and when she decides to fall down or lag behind, pull out your cell phone and act like you're calling and talking to someone about something boring.
If you're out in public, go with someone if possible and when she does this, just ignore what she's doing and start having a conversation with the person you're with - don't walk away of course, but don't look at her, either.

Then when she's back up act as though nothing happened.

And don't ever let her hear you talk to anyone about your frustrations with this, because that just makes her want to do it more - it gets her the attention she wants, even if it's negative.

If it's really a control issue, she can't control you if you don't care about what she's doing, you know?

My two cents....gotta run! And good luck to you! That would drive me up the wall!

[NiteNicole]

So she's been doing it more and more exaggerated over the past few days. I had decided to take her tomorrow and insist on some x rays just to rule out anything. Like an idiot, I googled "three year old" and "limp" and I'm getting things like brain tumors and leukemia.

Oh God. Pray for us. I'll never get to sleep tonight. I think I'm going to have a panic attack. I just woke her up and tried to make her walk down the hall in her sleep to see if she would still do it.

Please pray for us. Pray for my daughter. Tell me this is nothing. I can't breathe. This is my baby.

[amis2girls]

OP, maybe you have a popular name, but I seem to remember identifying with you with a thread you posted about your daughter a year or two ago. Maybe it was on sleep? I have an almost 6yo who up until five was wetting her pants regularly. Had her thoroughly thoroughly checked out only to be told if I were a stricter parent it wouldn't have been an issue. Going back and forth on the 'is there something physically wrong/whoa, I have a serious power struggle happy child' is exhausting. It affects your every day and your being.

Positive thoughts for the appt tomorrow.

[Ms. B. Sprout]

, mama

[hipumpkins]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole

That's a very good point...she knows there's nothing wrong, but maybe having someone else tell her she's fine in front of me may take away her excuse.

I admit I'm a little doctor-shy. When she was born, her hips were a little clicky. Her ped sent us to an ortho who totally took us for a ride. She was fine by six weeks according to the ped but the ortho just kept pushing more and more - up to a body cast and including surgery. Obviously I asked for a second opinion and the second ortho confirmed what we suspected - she was fine. Her hips were ok and someone was actually trying to set my baby up for a body cast and surgery! So now unless there is something really wrong (and knock wood, she's only had one cold and ear infection in her whole life), we do not go to the doctor. Although I promise if I thought there was a chance this was something real or she was hurting, I would take her like yesterday.

I know it probably does sound like something might be wrong, but having watched the progression and her response to our trying to get her to stop, it is a control thing.

I don't know if this could be helpful but I have "clicky" hips and am also pretty pigeon toed. Often my hips can sort of lock making me either limp for a few seconds and at worst I have been known to fall right down. It is just sort of random and I look like an old lady sometimes but then poof it goes away.
However I am also pretty sure that a mom kind of really knows the "faking it" of her child. It's just I was thinking if this had happed to her randomly and she kind of liked the attention it garnered she kept it up.