Pneumonia Vaccine--please educate me!

[ChasingPeace]

I am considering the pneumonia vaccine for my selectively vaxed dc (ages 3 and 5 1/2). My dc are (thankfully) in pretty good health. My ds (5 1/2)suffers from eczema and environmental allergies. My dd (3) had RSV as an infant. My primary motivation is because of H1N1. I don't feel comfortable with the H1N1 vaccines, and am more fearful of secondary infection. I'm just starting to research this and would appreciate some wisdom and information from both the pro and con viewpoins. Thanks!

[FernG]

Which vaccine are you calling the pneumonia vaccine?

Remember, pneumonia is a condition caused by many, many strains of bacteria or viruses or even fungi. What is causing the condition of pneumonia in the flu victims? If it isn't a strain covered by the vaccines that you are considering, then the vaccines will not protect against it.

[stacey05]

I researched this somewhat. I found one article that actually told what strains of s. pneumonia some people had when they died with h1n1. The majority (this article only listed like 10-12 of people who had died) had mrsa and s. pneumonia 19A which is not covered in prevnar. S. pnuemonia 19A is a superbug that is resistant to antibiotics and came onto the scene big time after prevnar. The new prevnar 13 will cover this strain,but it is not available yet as far as I know. There was also some Group A strep that I saw. It is very hard to find out this information, I researched for a long time. This info was for several kids ages 2months to 15years, and some adults as well. Some had underlying conditions like down syndrome or diabetes. I do not know what strains are covered in the pnuemovax. I think it covers 23 strains, but I don't know what they are. There are actually over 90 strains of s.pneumonia. There is alot of serotype replacement with these pneumonia/men. vaccines. One article from Pediatrics in 2006 stated that children vaccinated with pneumonia vaccines actually had more strains of bacteria in their nasopharynx as well as were as likely as nonimmunized children to be colonized with S. Pneumonia. I'm sorry I can't help you more. I have been researching this as well. I also was a little worried about the secondary infections...I have 5 kids, 17, 14, 11, 8 and 2. The youngest is unvaccinated completely and the others are partially vaccinated. I also just found out I am pregnant. I don't think I am comfortable with the h1n1 vaccine either.

[ChasingPeace]

Thanks. That's a start. I'm just learning about pneumonia vaccines, because I never considered it before for my dc. It seems Prevnar is the one commonly given. I realize it doesn't protect against many strains, but this article made me think that it might be a good idea.

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/35412

I am also interested in knowing more about the risks of Prevnar, and whether it has thimerosal in it.

[AlexisT]

The vaccine given to children is Prevnar, PCV7. The 23 strain vaccine is given to adults in high risk categories. It is not approved for use in children under 2. (ETA: I can't remember exactly which age groups it IS approved for--but I do remember specifically that it's not for use in under-2s. IIRC, Prevnar is most effective in children under 3 as well, which is why it's not on the required list for school.)

[ChasingPeace]

So maybe my kids can't get it anyway because they're 3 and 5 1/2. And now I'm reading how it makes kids more susceptible to "superbugs." This is so confusing.

[stacey05]

Here is what pnuemovax covers:

23 Pneumococcal Capsular Types Included in PNEUMOVAX 23
Nomenclature Pneumococcal Types
1 2 3 4 5 6B** 7F 8 9N 9V** 10A 11A 12F 14** 15B 17F 18C 19F** 19A** 20 22F 23F** 33F
** These serotypes most frequently cause drug-resistant pneumococcal infections1**

I noticed this covers all the strains in prevnar and then 16 more including the 19A strain that I have been reading about. It seems this would be the one to get, maybe. It is usually only given to adults over 64/65 or kids 2 and up if they have certain health conditions. I don't know much about the side effects. I do know they created prevnar because this vaccine didn't work so good in children under 2.

[stacey05]

I found this about pneumovax regarding side effects:

>This vaccine has been used since 1977 and has been found to be quite safe. The most common side effects of the Pneumovax vaccine are swelling and pain at the injection site. It does not adversely affect the immune system<

by Robert Steele, MD

I guess one could look at the vaccine insert to see more of the side effects. I was worried about seizure risk with prevnar and do not think that is a side effect of this one.


I found the above quote when the dr answered a mom's concern that her 9 month old received this vaccine by mistake. He said she should be fine and might be somewhat protected. He said that only 30% under 2 developed immunity because of the way this vaccine is created. That is why they created prevnar for the under 2 crowd. I still don't know why they don't recommend it in all children over 2? Maybe because s.pneumonia isn't that common in healthy over 2 kids? Anybody know?

[stacey05]

sorry, but this is interesting...I read in a couple of places (including here) that pneumovax doesn't prevent pneumonia...but it does lower the rates of s. pneumo bacteremia and meningitis??!!??

[FernG]

Originally Posted by stacey05

sorry, but this is interesting...I read in a couple of places (including here) that pneumovax doesn't prevent pneumonia...but it does lower the rates of s. pneumo bacteremia and meningitis??!!??

When I said that it doesn't prevent pneumonia, I meant that it creates antibodies against certain strains of bacteria that are frequently found in patients with pneumonia. The vaccine may reduce the incidence of pneumonia from certain bacteria, but it doesn't prevent pneumonia, which can still be caused by many, many other bacteria, viruses, and fungi. Does that make sense?

[stacey05]

FernG,

I read that it doesn't prevent pneumonia in several different articles...not just here. Of course, on the insert, it did say it prevented pneumonia, so I am not sure what to believe about that. The articles also said it does reduce bacteremia and meningitis. Sometimes, you just don't know what to believe when different experts say different things.

[katiegrace]

Originally Posted by stacey05

I researched this somewhat. I found one article that actually told what strains of s. pneumonia some people had when they died with h1n1. The majority (this article only listed like 10-12 of people who had died) had mrsa and s. pneumonia 19A which is not covered in prevnar. S. pnuemonia 19A is a superbug that is resistant to antibiotics and came onto the scene big time after prevnar. The new prevnar 13 will cover this strain,but it is not available yet as far as I know. There was also some Group A strep that I saw. It is very hard to find out this information, I researched for a long time. This info was for several kids ages 2months to 15years, and some adults as well. Some had underlying conditions like down syndrome or diabetes. I do not know what strains are covered in the pnuemovax. I think it covers 23 strains, but I don't know what they are. There are actually over 90 strains of s.pneumonia. There is alot of serotype replacement with these pneumonia/men. vaccines. One article from Pediatrics in 2006 stated that children vaccinated with pneumonia vaccines actually had more strains of bacteria in their nasopharynx as well as were as likely as nonimmunized children to be colonized with S. Pneumonia. I'm sorry I can't help you more. I have been researching this as well. I also was a little worried about the secondary infections...I have 5 kids, 17, 14, 11, 8 and 2. The youngest is unvaccinated completely and the others are partially vaccinated. I also just found out I am pregnant. I don't think I am comfortable with the h1n1 vaccine either.

Could you post the link to the article that showed most of the people that died from the swine flu had the strains not covered in Prevnar? I am VERY intersted in seeing this. I am beating myself up over whether or not to get this vax now...I had decided against it until this whole swine flu issue...

[Nettie]

I just got the pneumovax today for myself, because I'm worried about secondary infection from H1N1 (and I'm not going to get *that* vax).
I was told it's one of the safest vaxes in use, with the least side effects. So far all I have is a sore arm.
My 2 yr old is mostly unvaccinated, and I'm also going back and forth over whether or not I want to now give him the Prevnar (or the pneumovax...whichever one they would use for age 2). I'm just very concerned about these secondary infections, and at the same time, know that none of us will receive the h1n1 vaccine, so prevnar/pneumovax seem pretty appealing right now. The nurse who gave me my shot today said I was very smart for getting this one instead of the h1n1 (which she admitted she doesn't fully trust).
As for the prevnar, there is no mercury in it, but it contains 125 micrograms of aluminum.