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Are unvaxed kids generally more healthy? - Page 7

post #121 of 137
Quote:
What role does the innate immune system play altogether when it comes to health?

You may want to look more into the role genetic/hereditary immunity plays in overall health and the relationship with immunizations - Sergey N. Rumyantsev is a person to start with.
post #122 of 137
I beg your pardon, but antibody production has a lot to do with immunity. With respect, I think your view of how the immune system functions is completely different than what I've learned in the 10 + years I have been studying it. What is this resistance you speak of and you do you attain it?

I think it might be best if I bow out of this discussion now. I wish you all happy debating.
post #123 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
You may want to look more into the role genetic/hereditary immunity plays in overall health and the relationship with immunizations - Sergey N. Rumyantsev is a person to start with.
Thanks, I'll be looking into that. I am not sure that this is related to the innate immune system? Or is he saying the hereditary immunity is expressed in the innate immune system? As in the primary, non-specific immune system in the mucosa lining the gastro intestinal tract, the respiratory tract and the skin? At first glance, it looks interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
I beg your pardon, but antibody production has a lot to do with immunity. With respect, I think your view of how the immune system functions is completely different than what I've learned in the 10 + years I have been studying it. What is this resistance you speak of and you do you attain it?

I think it might be best if I bow out of this discussion now. I wish you all happy debating.
I was really hoping to understand more about what you know about the immune system and how your definition of the immune system incorporates the innate immune system. If you have the time to go into it on this thread, I certainly would appreciate it. For the record, I do not think antibodies are irrelevant, I just do not think they are necessarily the most important aspect of a healthy immune system.
post #124 of 137
My four year old had one vax and had a terrible reaction to it so that's when i started to do my research and stopped the vaccinations all together, my five year old has had a few vaxes. Both of them have never had an ear infection or anything other then the season flu or a cold, no infections of the throat no lingering colds or flu's. I think it is because i stopped vaxing.
post #125 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
One vaxed, one unvaxed kid. They both have mild seasonal allergies, about the same severity, neither of them bad. The vaxed kid has an awesome immune system and hardly ever gets sick. The unvaxed kid gets sick often. Neither had the chicken pox vax and the otherwise (everything but CP) vaxed kid got one suspicious looking spot, the unvaxed kid, while still very, very mild, had quite a few more.

So...for us the vaxed kid has a much, MUCH better immune system than the unvaxed kid. The unvaxed one is getting vaxes on a delayed schedule, beginning this winter.
This is my experience too. My unvaxed kid is sick regularly and also has asthma. My vaxed kid is hardly ever sick.
post #126 of 137
Just A Little Prick by Hilary Butler says that there is a study that was done in New Zealand that compared vaccinated and unvaccinated children that were siblings, and the study found that the unvaccinated children were healthier.

Page 199 says:

Quote:
"I described a study that the Immunization Awareness Society had done using parents who had immunized their first child, or two children, then had chosen not to vaccinate their subsequent children. The study found dramatic differences between the two groups. The unvaccinated children had far fewer chronic complaints and a much better ability to cope with acute infections than vaccinated children. Vaccinated children had much higher rates of complaints like glue ear, asthma and chronic disorders."
post #127 of 137
Is there a cite for that in the book?
post #128 of 137
yeah, I would love a cite for that study. I'd like to read the whole thing.
post #129 of 137
I don't believe it's referring to a study published in a peer-reviewed journal. I think this was a survey IAS did. Not sure if you could find a complete paper online or not but I suppose you could always e-mail them & ask.
post #130 of 137
A survey? So they just asked people if they thought that their unvaxed kid was healthier than the vaxed one? That totally answers my question---thanks.
post #131 of 137
Probably not. Most of the time surveys are more in depth than that. I would expect the survey tool to have been structured to provide more measurable info. But without actually looking at it, there's no way to really evaluate what data might have been provided.
post #132 of 137
I wish there were more studies, but barely anyone wants to touch it and t here is virtually no funding for something like that.
My DS is not vaxxed and just has his first sniffles. He once had a low fever in June when I had swine flu.
His cousin, fully vaccinated and 3 weeks older (including the new Prevnar 13, rotavirus, MMR @ 12 and MMR at 14 months and meningoccocal) is constantly sick. It started at 6 months with colds on and off, diarrhea on and off. They (and my sister is a MD!) gave him Tylenol after shots as he "spiked" a fever (38 degrees celsius, come on!). They blame it on daycare which he attends since he is 13 months old (6 kid group with 2 teachers).
His other cousin, now 2.5 years, has been selectively vaccinated with DTaP, Hib, Prevnar and IPV. She has had horrid ear infections following each Prevnar shot and has had a couple of colds. She never got Tylenol.
So we can only talk about our anecdotal evidence, but in my family so far, the unvaccinated kid is by far healthier.
post #133 of 137
DS is almost 2.5 and unvaxed. He's healthy as a horse and his immune system is fantastic. He spikes a little fever from time to time, naps for 3 hours, and then presto...whatever he was fighting gets fought and he doesn't get sick. He had an ear infection once. Spiked a 104 fever. We treated with garlic oil and belladonna and the next day...no fever, no more pain. Gone in two days.

I should also add that DS is still breast fed, drinks raw milk, and we only eat non GMO organic, (preferably) local food. We don't eat processed foods. DS takes vitamins including probiotics. We spend a lot of time outside 365 days a year. We use non toxic cleaning products.

So whether it is the lack of vaxes or our diet/lifestyle or a combination, I can't say.
post #134 of 137
I didn't read all the responses, but wanted to say my 4 yr old is mostly vaxed and is incredibly healthy, he barrels through a cold in a day.

My 7mo old baby has been sick every month of her life. She had the flu once and colds the other times. She has also had ear and sinus infections. My son has never had a ear infection. She has had 2 Dtaps, but nothing else.

I have been thinking a lot about this because she is so sick and he is so healthy.
post #135 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicateflower View Post
Gosh, your poor kids! I hope they have a better run of it, this year. There's nothing worse than missing all that school, is there? At least you know they won't get whooping cough or RSV again for a few years.

But don't you think someone who was even healthier would get such a mild case of the disease that you didn't even notice it? I'm sure my fully immunized children gets tons of viruses and other bugs from other children but because they've got strong immune systems they kill off the bugs before they are sick enough to show symptoms. Neither of them had a single cold last year. I had a horrible bout of rotavirus, but they'd been vaxed for that, luckily.
I haven't been back to visit this thread for about a month and just saw this.

Hm.

Well, since my kids don't attend school (they learn at home as my sig states), we don't have to worry about make-up work or the like when they do catch childhood illnesses and common colds and such.

As for not having to worry about them getting sick again with whooping cough or RSV? Well, since my child who dealt with both has developed natural immunity from catching and healing from the diseases, we won't have to worry about these again.

I am grateful that I don't have to take them in to get boosters for the vaccinations that may/may not confer immunity and worry about them getting sick with those things again if the vaccine is not effective. (I trust my children's immune systems much more than I trust a pharmaceutical company)

Sure, it sucked when my children had the illnesses, but now we don't have to worry about them recurring. (Or about them getting sick but not having any symptoms due to suppression from the vaccine and then unknowingly passing it on to a newborn sibling or elderly person, etc)

It seems there is a general thought going among ppl that health=no symptoms, no illnesses. That is what vaccine manufacturers and doctors want us to believe, if ppl are vaccinated before contracting an illness, we must be immune from the diseases they are marketed as if they prevent, thus we will be healthier. In general, overall, for the majority of ppl.

But are vaccines always safe? Always effective? Do they create health or maintain health better than for ppl who are unvaccinated? Depends on who you ask and what you choose to believe.

I wonder is anyone who believes 100% in vaccines has studied each vaccine package insert that accompanies the shot their child was going to receive? Some vaccines do not, and are not designed to prevent the illness entirely, but to reduce severity of symptoms or to *suppress* the symptoms themselves, but not necessarily prevent the person from actually having an active illness or from being contagious and thus able to pass the illness to others. It's in the packet!

I don't know about you, but I prefer to SEE if another person is sick by their symptoms so I can avoid contact with them.

Not seeing symptoms gives the illusion of health. No visible symptoms, must be healthy, right? Or maybe not.....

That is a mainstream viewpoint and there are some very convincing arguments in opposition to that claim.

But that seems like a whole other thread to me.

As the disclaimer at the top of this page on Mothering.com points out:

"...one of our objectives, and for which members and guests come to our forum, is to bring to light the information that is not mainstream and readily available. Though Mothering does not take a pro or anti stand on vaccinations, we will not host threads on the merits of mandatory vaccine, or a purely pro vaccination view point as this is not conducive to the learning process." (italics mine)

I appreciate those posters contributing to this thread who are asking genuine questions, those who are interested in learning more than what is offered in the mainstream and those who share perspectives, studies, book titles and websites that bring up valid points of discussion as it pertains to vaccinations.
post #136 of 137
In our group of friends, so a very small sample size, I would say the kids who are unvaxed or vaxed on a slow schedule are much healthier. The kids who are fully vaxed seem to often have fevers and colds much more often. Of course, I think that really it has to do with a whole picture - in our group of friends, those who are more cautious about vaccination also tend to eat healthier and be more on top of making sure their kids get good, consistent sleep - so I would guess a number of factors, when all put together, add to or detract from overall health.
post #137 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by waiflywaif View Post
A survey? So they just asked people if they thought that their unvaxed kid was healthier than the vaxed one? That totally answers my question---thanks.
I just wanted to mention that the CDC itself conducts surveys all the time as a method of collecting data and determining trends. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/surveys.htm
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