Breaking Point Mamas Unite

[coleybug]

There have been a few posts over the last month or so that I’ve really been able to relate to. You know, the breaking point posts. I was wondering how those mamas were doing. Any changes? Any progress?

DS is going to be one on October 24. He sleeps worse now than he did as a newborn. At 3 months he was going 4 and 5 hours consistently. Now the longest I get is 2 hours and that’s not even every night. Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3. He nurses 6-10 times a night. He only drinks 9 or 10 oz of pumped milk during the day while I am at work. I am a mess. My marriage is suffering, my work is suffering, and my older DS is suffering. I can’t remember what day of the week it is half the time…

As I was up last night, (for the 5th or so time) I was thinking that I have to make a change. Now. I am feeling too angry and resentful and it’s not healthy for me or DS. I was literally crying and begging DS to go to sleep…(which of course, freaked him out and caused him to stay awake longer…) So my plan is to try night weaning this weekend. It may help us, or it may be so horrific I abandon it by Sunday. Who knows. But I do know I need to change this, and it can’t be worse than now, right? Maybe I’ll start a new post about our night weaning adventure on Friday. I have a feeling I’ll need the support

[Rubber Ducky]

Oh mama, a big hug to you! My DS will be one this coming Monday and like yours have been sleeping worse compared to when he was younger. He used to nurse, pop off and turn away to sleep. I got a full night's rest that way but now, he would stay awake for up to 2 hours or more, crying, fussing, scratching, etc...

I've spent many nights crying in anger and resentment. I'm angry at him, angry at myself, and angry for being angry.

I started night weaning a few weeks ago without following anything really strict. He gave me a few 5-6 hour stretches and I was over the moon. But now... sigh... I'm too tired to even think. I'm thinking of using a pacifier... I've made it one whole year without and now I want to use it!

I feel like a failure. Like I've been too ignorant and naive. Most mums I know have babies who are sleeping through the night and can't believe that I'm still nursing that much. They think I'm dumb for co-sleeping and not using cio. DS is so separation sensitive that he would only be left with me or DH. We get no breaks and have no close family around to help.

So here you go mamas... my pity party! Yet there are so many things to be thankful for. Oh so many!!! His smiles, his laughter, his confidence, his soft huggable little body. A roof over my head, food on the table, husband who loves me, a God who has promised to never leave nor forsake me.

Thanks for reading and yes, we're not alone!

[Honey693]

I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?

[Louisep]

Great thread!

I (and my DH actually) get a lot of comfort from reading other's posts on here. Like PP, my DS was a pretty good sleeper until five months when we started on the 1-2 hour wakings. We've had some good stints over the last 4 months (well, a couple of days here and there) but there seems no rhyme or reason to why one night he does okay and the next is a wreck. I've tried elimination diets, I've tried NCSS, I've tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, more naps, less naps etc etc!!!!

I have days when I'm depressed about it, and I don't use that word lightly. I've had nights when I've cried and cried and cried.

I just don't see how we could have done anything differently and from reading other posts, I think our babies probably have a lot in common. I have a moderately high needs baby who has done everything early - crawled by 5 months, 8 teeth by 7 months, he's about to walk now at 9 months. We co-sleep because our DS demanded it and we occasionally try the crib and it's an awful night.

I am resigned to thinking he just isn't ready to learn to sleep by himself yet (even though he used to!!).

[LadyCatherine185]

I dont have a lot of time to post right now, but count me in!! We are having a really rough time right now with molars coming in.. not that we have ever had a good time with sleeping! on a normal night he wakes hourly.. I am tired. so so so tired.

But like a PP said, there are so many things to be thankful for.. He is a beautiful, smart, curious, active, confident, eager, exploring, sweet little boy and we are lucky he is ours. Just wanted to post a pic.. cuz.. I like to brag on my boy!!

[coleybug]

Thanks mamas! I'm gettin' a warm and fuzzy feeling from this thread and I need it!

Catie, your son is adorable! It's so hard to be angry when we have so much to be grateful for, I know. I'll be back later, still at work!

[Louisep]

Originally Posted by coleybug

Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3.

Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??

[LeoneLover13]

I'm IN!!!

for you ladies!

As I am writing this she just woke up an hour after I put her down so I had to run in and nurse her quickly. I've got maybe another hour or 2 until the next one. sigh.

Our sleep issues also started at around 6 months old, she was a 2 time a night-er until then...sniff, those were the days...I also think our babies have a lot in common. DD is a medium-high needs who has done everything earlier than most. We should do a poll on that, or someone should study it or something!!

Luckily, we are not as bad as we have been. I guess this is actually good compared to a few months ago. She is still an hourly-2hourly waker right now and most of the time she will pop herself off and turn over. But we just hit 1 year on Saturday and I'm ready for longer stretches and think she should be too. I am scared to night wean though, she gets maaaaad if I deny her 'na-na' when she still wants it. I have successfully told her "No more" randomly in the middle of the night and she has immediately turned over quietly... but it doesn't always work and she will get worked up really quickly.

Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.

I hope we can all help each other in here, I get a lot out of reading others posts who are going through the same things.

[coleybug]

I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?

Gordon method. Modified as I need to. Do a search for Dr. Jay Gordon, it's a very gentle way and caters to co-sleeping families as well.

Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.

DS is smaller too. And not big into solids. My problem is like reverse cycling. He's nursing soooo much at night that he's only drinking 9 or 10 oz during the day! So I'm hoping by cutting back at night, he will take in more during the day. I've read (and my ped agreed) that bulking them up during the day doesn't make them cut back at night. *Cutting back* at night makes them take more during the day.

for all of us! We are so strong, aren't we??? We are all doing a great job! As I like to say at 3 am, "It won't be like this forever. You *will* sleep again."

I would say DS is medium needs…definitely clingier than my first DS. But unlike my first DS, he is not very verbal *at all*. Like I said, he will be one on the 24th and the only “word” he has is “ya-ya”.

Anyway, dare I say last night was marginally better? Did he read this message board? Maybe he’s worried b/c I said I’m gonna night wean!
The only difference last night was I gave him a half dose of Motrin for his teeth. He nursed to sleep and slept 2.5 hours.

I don’t know what it is about the 3 am wake up. Last night was from about 3:20 to 4 am. Not bad compared to other nights.

In the last week I’ve decided to try to do some things for me to help…drinking lots more water, cutting out sugar/flour (as mentioned by hrsmom), taking my prenatals plus a Vit D supplement, probiotics, cutting almost all caffiene.

I’ve also discovered that DS is allergic to dairy. He breaks out in hives if he is given any dairy. I wonder if my dairy consumption affects him…I’m going to give up as dairy and see if it makes any difference.

At this point, I am still going to try to night wean starting Friday. Heck, a month ago he would not sleep in his crib at all, and now he starts out there for about 2 hours and sometimes ends up there after the 3 am wake up. Another mantra I learned here "It will never happen if I don't try."

mamas!

[Louisep]

LeoneLover13 I'm so glad to see you're doing a bit better!! I was so worried about you. It sounded SO rough for you every 30 minutes, man that's tough.

Coleybug - we had a better night too! And the night before. Bizarre huh? He also napped for TWO hours this morning and he is the king of catnaps. I have NO idea what caused these changes. Maybe he was just exhausted? Actually, we gave him motrin about 5pm yesterday because he was so fussy and seemed in pain, maybe that helped? Maybe he's teething again? I can't see anything. It's such a guessing game isn't it?

Oh DS, how I love you, but why won't you sleep??!!

[ommom]

hi louisep & everyone

not much to add; just wanted to say i'm following this thread. & will be listening in on the nightweaning stories. i'm gonna google Jay Gordon now.

[MG01]

i am a recent poster as such..

just wanted to let you all know i will be following this thread and hope we can support one another.

my son is 7.5 mos, is usually good natured but is having an awful sleep time the past few weeks. it has been up and down from birth through the past 6-7 mos, but this is a whole new level. he was usually getting at least one good 3-5 hour stretch in between 1 month of age and 6 mos of age, and now the longest seems to be 1-2 hours.. and most days, no naps except in arms while in motion and attached to my breast, or am learning to do a woven wrap and the ergo back carry so i can at least do something like study without a big bulge hindering me in front, if my brain is functional enough (which it has not been lately, but what are you gonna do)

i have definitely gotten to that edge this past weekend where i literally threw all my son's cloth diapers and toys and things into a bunch of reusable grocery bags, put him in the carseat, and took him to grandma's for a night- i never thought i would do that with a babe his age, it felt like a failure, but i was out of options, and i realize logically it was healthier and safer for us both even though emotionally it is hard for me to think about, i know i got a good night's rest and he was safe with loving family members and that is okay, it has to be.

i ordered "no cry sleep solution" and it arrived today, have started trying to acclimate him to short playtimes/naptimes in the playpen so it is not associated with being a bad/sad place, and hope to start reading/implementing ncss. also ordered amber for teething as his toppers are starting to come in and i think that is a part of it. and since several friends have shared experience/concern with allergies or gut issues i have cut out the few solids i introduced. i noticed yesterday/today he is getting another awful yeast rash on his bum to top everything else off so i will be going back on the probiotics tonight or tomorrow, and him too, and hoping that little by little things improve.. but my schoolwork is definitely suffering as is my sanity. like louisep said, it's just a (majorly stressful) guessing game, but the past couple days, with additional help and slightly better nights, have given me enough sanity back to feel like i can start taking small steps towards implementing solutions and working on it at least..

i have been so lucky to have several friends and family really step up, as a solo parent i really needed (and continue to need it) now more than ever, i feel like everything is hitting really hard right now. i know logically it will get better but i feel sometimes like it will never end and like i just want to go hide somewhere and cry (and SLEEP for goddess sake).

i have today committed to reverse the bad habit i have created, where i stay up and waste time and let him sleep at the breast for hours on end simply because i so psychologically dread trying to set him down alone, or transfer both him and i into lying in our bed, and thus waking him and starting all over again.. but i have to do it.. which is why i am off to give it a go, cross your fingers, may be back in .4 seconds or less, this is attempt number two so far tonight but he did not nap today so i figure he is definitely tired and if i start early maybe will work before he gets too overtired?? i know have to keep trying. anyone have luck w/ sleep logs and/or food logs, finding patterns or causes, i think that is the basis of the ncss approach? or is it just a wait it out thing? i guess it varies, but would be nice to hear from those who have been there, although i think this thread should obviously serve as supporting one another and checking in too- but i for one would welcome additional opinions and ideas and solutions, here or maybe via pm, whatever seems preferable, on this whole freaking sleep thing. maybe i will start my own thread here on our specific issues so this one can stay a support thread, is that OP's intent? just lmk, don't want to take it over but this is new to me, whereas it sounds like some of you mamas have been dealing with this for a long time (please tell me it ends!? sometime? ever? lol)

hang in there mamas.. Off to try to get us into bed....

[LeoneLover13]

Thanks Louisep...it was really rough there for a few months. But hopefully that gives you all hope that it will get at least a little better!

Another thing they all seem to have in common is that they are all really hard teethers. DD gets in so much pain sometimes that even motrin won't help.

That is an interesting thought coleybug, it makes sense. DD doesn't eat that much during the day now it's a lot more at night. I guess "it'll never happen if I don't try" I have been gently trying the jay gordon method. But a much slower progression. I'm just picking a few times a night where I tell her 'no more', or just don't give her the boob and she has been giving up after 30 seconds or so. But then she'll try again a few mins later. And I'm progressively doing it more and more each night until, hopefully, she won't ask for it anymore.

Love this thread already!

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by Louisep

Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??

We are up at 3 AM too! We should do a chat at 3 AM thread. Mine wakes up to poop about that time every night and then doesn't go back to sleep for a while. We were up last night from 4:30 til 6. DS was up at 7, so... not much sleep for us.

A friend recently told me when I asked about the 3 AM thing that babies KNOW that 3 AM is the time that everyone should be asleep. Some people go to bed at 2 AM, and some people are up at 4 AM for work, so 3 AM is the best time to universally disturb the family. It must be evolutionary.

Hugs to all you mamas who are sleep deprived. I'm right there with you. My DD has slept nominally better the last 3 nights, but I have been so worried about stuff going on with other things that I am not sleeping very well anyway. *Sigh* Someday we will all get a good night's rest. At least DD is cheery at 3 AM. DS was always screamy when he was up in the middle of the night.

[MG01]

Well that was a colossal failure. Started trying as my son was exhausted (no nap today, as sometimes happens) and fell asleep nursing around 8. Tried to put him down around 8:25, woke, nursed, posted here above, back in around maybe 9:30 my time to put him down, woke, nursed and walked, down again at 9:45. Finally, success. Slept for one hour 5 min. right next to him in the bed but not with him latched on which is a huge success in my book, and 10:50 he again woke, screaming, thrashing, nursing, stopping, latching unlatching, repositioning, I'd get him to sleep then he would scream again, nothing works. Repeat ad nauseum until 12:20, for an hour and a half doing this, and now we are just up because there was no point in trying anymore. Now he seems fine romping around, and I gave him a cold teething thingie from the fridge to chew but he didn't really want it, but he seemed so uncomfortable in the bed!?

I am making a snack and contemplating what and whether to give him some sort of medicine for teething because I am thinking that is a part of this. I don' t think I really have anything in the house though and I don't want to drive to the 24 hour pharmacy so far away and sleep deprived.. so idk.

He also seemed like he was both cold/hot, because he gets sweaty really easily but then he was kinda chilly, like a cold sweat almost? I know that a mild fever can go with teething, and if he is anything like me he probably cannot regulate his temp very well, many a night I feel the same, so I had him loose in a onesie and socks to start, tried a tight warm swaddle, belly massage seemed to help some, wouldn't potty but passed some gas so I think his tummy is bothering him too since the belly massaging and pushing his legs up seemed to help, he actually fell asleep with me jiggling him and holding him down on the bed in the dark room with his legs pushed up like that, but I could only do that so long, so after 10-15 minutes of that I tried wedging a blanket around him to keep his legs somewhat in that position and he woke right up and screamed and thrashed some more. Seemed like he was exhausted and uncomfortable and just could not get comfortable or sleep normally. I cannot decide if he is fighting sleep or if sleep is fighting him and what all else is contributing to this, I don't know what to do.

I have to wake up in six and a half hours and I don't think I will be sleeping anytime soon, not looking forward to another day of insanity and feeling awful and drinking coffee with caffeine (which I had stopped drinking for over 2 years and through pregnancy and nursing, just the past few days it is my new habit, which I am sure is not helping matters)

It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.

so basically i got absolutely nothing done today and i need to sleep. does it have to be this hard?

[MG01]

and the thing that kills me is, even at the times in the past when we've had stages of frequent night waking, it hasn't been like this, it's been like, ok nurse groggily for 2 minutes and go back to sleep, not like need to get out of bed and pace and screaming baby and seeming like he is in pain or whatnot- it was like, i could deal with every hour or two wakings if they were like that, easy short wakings just to assure that mama was right next to him or for a quick sip of milk, but this is entirely different. *sigh*

to other mamas in this boat. its no fun.

[LeoneLover13]

Mama_Gaia-

I think we have all been there. That one night that just kills you and you don't think you can do it anymore, you're just done. Then they make it easier for a little while, build your spirits and tolerance back up just to knock it back down again a few days later.

IT WILL GET BETTER!

As far as what's going on with your LO, it definitely sounds like teething to me. Especially since it's only when he's in bed, that's what my DD does. The pain gets much worse when they lay down so I half dose her with motrin and lay her on her boppy to sleep, just so her head is slightly elevated.

Good luck today and tonight, I hope you have a better one!

[InMediasRes]

Hugs, Mama_Gaia. It sounds like teething to me too. The screaming, pacing, trying everything you can think of when your brain can't think of very much of anything sounds all too familiar to me. My DS was a miserable sleeper, and there were many nights where I wondered what the heck I was doing. It will get lots better, I promise.

Well, we were up at 6 again. I know it's not that early, but I had bad insomnia last night worrying about my DS and thinking about some other stuff. I am normally a very heavy sleeper and do not have any sleep problems, so I have no coping mechanism for insomnia. I just get angry, which makes me more awake . DD woke up 4 times last night to pee and had to switch sides a few times before going back down. She was also clawing at my boob all night. Gotta cut those darn fingernails again! Up at 6 AM to poop. It's like clockwork. Oh well, at least it wasn't 4 AM to poop.

DS has been having some trouble sleeping lately, but DH is in with him, so I don't hear much about it, just that it was a bad/ok night. He just wakes up a lot before someone comes to bed with him, mostly.

[coleybug]

Originally Posted by Mama_Gaia

It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.

I was mulling this last night. Because I've had 2 decent nights, I feel so much better...able to formulate a plan...my stress level is low, not angry, not short tempered. I feel good about attempting to night wean this weekend b/c I feel like I have something in the "reserves". But one horrid night (like the night I had when I wrote the original post) and you are at the bottom again. I went back and reread my original post and I can *hear* the frustration and despair. I feel for you mama, because I *know* the despair and hopeless feeling. But I agree with LeoneLover13, might be teeth. My DS likes to chew on frozen binkies during the day. He won't take one at night, but during the day he seems soothed by them. I've also used Hylands with some improvement, but they are lactose based and I hesitate now that I've discovered DS has a dairy allergy. Have you ever tried Gripe Water? It's a ginger and fennel liquid that has stomach soothing properties. I used it with my first DS for colic and it helped. And keep telling yourself IT WILL NOT BE LIKE THIS FOREVER!!!

I wish I had advice for any of us. I feel like I have tried EVERYTHING with varying success. Teething tablets, Motrin, swaddling, not swaddling, white noise, yoga ball (huge success), Gripe Water, sleeping on me, sleeping in the crib, nightlight, dark room, etc...

I think my issue is DS wakes and can't go back to sleep alone. So he sits up and cries until I swoop in and either bounce (yoga ball) or nurse him back to sleep. I guess he's waking between sleep cycles? Why else would he wake every hour or two?

[littlehoneybee]

Your son sounds like my DD. She just turned a year and is up every two hours at night as well. At three months she was sleeping six hour stretches and I thought that I finally had a kid who would sleep well. All that changed within a few weeks when she started teething. I give her Hyland's Teething tablets and gave her Tylenol one night, but it didn't make a difference.

On a good night I get one or two three hour stretches, but it's rare. I half heartedly started trying to night wean, but I'm not sure if it will make a difference given all the teething. Poor baby only has two teeth so we're going to be dealing with this for a long time I'm afraid. At least she does usually go right back to sleep after nursing.