Progressive/Liberal Christians - Fall '09

[MyLittleWonders]

Who is here? I just recently went back to our old church (definitely not liberal/progressive but I missed the music and the people - music speaks to my soul). It's interesting being there; the pastor who I loved retired (one of my best friend's dad). The head pastor now is doing better than I thought he would. I actually can leave Sundays (or Saturdays - something that drew up originally so long ago to this church was Saturday night service) and take what he preaches and find a way to apply it, so that's a plus. But, I think I like my boys to be in big church with us as the message is how to apply the Bible to our lives rather than a push to get kids "saved". I really wish the Sunday school was taught by a sweet grandmotherly type woman who told Bible stories. But, it's not.

[hrsmom]

Good morning!! Sunday school is one of the big reasons I left my former church. (I can totally see going back for the music and fellowship one day!) I'd look at the posters and signs on the walls in the Sunday School classrooms and know that I couldn't send Hannah there. Plus, they give the kids fruit loops! Staying in the big church could be an option, but they gave me grief when I wouldn't leave her in the nursery when she was less than a year old, so I doubt it! Hoping to some day go visiting some other churches. We're doing ok right now. Whenever I try to do anything in the morning, it's very stressful. That's the morning Hannah will want an early nap! We tried to go to a parade last weekend, and it just didn't happen. So church shopping is not on the list at the moment.

Book recommendations anyone? I always like those!!

[hrsmom]

So what should we talk about? Here's a question- what was it about Jesus that was so special?

[MyLittleWonders]

My response disappeared. So, for now, the simplest thing I can say is that I think he was so special (at least to me) because he offered unconditional love and compassion. He walked on the fringe and invited into life those who otherwise were deemed unworthy of life. He did not live a life based on dogma, ritual, or rules. He did not exclude, but rather, welcomed with open arms. To me he taught that sin is the opposite of life - that when we sin, we are hurting ourselves and those around us. He opened eyes and ears to see and hear. He enabled us to live life fully and completely, thus allowing those around us to live their lives fully and completely.

I think over history, the church has tried so hard to stick to rituals, when I think Jesus would be dismayed over it. It's not about form. It's not about words. It's not about formulas. It's about relationships. I love PFR's song "Didn't He"; I think it sums up what made Jesus so special. He loved us all. And he was willing to stand by his beliefs no matter the cost.

Originally Posted by PFR "Didn't He"

Too many hearts
On too many strings
We could cut them down
But instead we let them hang in the breeze
Oh my brother tell me why

And why is my sister down on her knees
Crying out won't somebody help me
And where are we

(chorus)
Didn't He love them
Didn't He hold out His hand
Wasn't Jesus a model
An example to man
Of how we must love everyone in this land
And give till it hurts
Isn't that part of the plan

But we can't see through our religious charade
To take what He's given
And give love away

One more night
No place to call home
A torn-up jacket on his back
It's getting pretty cold
Where do I stand
Do I reach out my hand

And one more child's face
An my TV screen
She's dying of hunger
Why can't we meet her need
And where are we

(chorus)

But we can't see through our holy facade
To do the one thing that we're called to by God

[hrsmom]

I like that song (poem?)

I think he had a way of knowing God and a way of living, too, and a life of compassion and love flows from knowing God. He must have been beyond amazing to know in person! I would like to know God the way Jesus did!

Do you spend much time reading the Bible? I haven't, lately. (I used to read it for lengthy periods each day.) I sometimes wonder if there is anything there for me right now, given that it wasn't really written for people to quietly meditate on at home alone. I'm not Jewish and I don't worship the way Jewish people did when it was written, so I wonder. I know there is timeless wisdom there, and I would like to know what Jesus had for people of all time. I find it truly amazing to think about how the writers of the New Testment books responded to Jesus. Maybe this is just a season for me to be reading other things. Even when I was a "conservative Christian" I had periods of reading nothing but the Bible, and periods of reading books and articles by other people.

I finally told our church secretary a few of the reasons why I wasn't coming to church any more. She said she understood that I have to do what I have to do! I appreciated her response.

[hrsmom]

A thought about that song (or is it a poem?!)- I have a friend who has two now nearly-grown children. A few years ago she was really struggling with her teenage son, and was really wanting some of the men in her church (or just one man) to be a mentor and someone her son could look up to. Single mom, by the way. I wondered at the time why the heck no one helped out. (I did secretly help her out financially, but don't tell anyone!) Then when I became a single mom, the issue of help from church people was a real sore spot to me. A few people brought me food in the beginning, which was lovely, but beyond that, I didn't get any help from people at church! It was not for lack of asking on my part, either. And I really really really needed some help! I've written about this before, but your song reminded me of that. It's sad! I hope I can grow spiritually and someday offer that love and compassion (from the heart!) that Jesus did. Oh well, if people at my old church had been more helpful, I would still be there and would still be following the wrong notion of God. (I want to say that *I* had the wrong notion of God when I was at that church, and the people there may very well get it better than I did. I am not at all saying they are wrong.)

I've been pondering the "fruits of the spirit" idea- Galatians? (Maybe it's time for me to read that Bible again!) and the idea that when following a God-path, the fruits just naturally flow.

Hey, here's another question- do you think the concept of "ego" as written about by people like Wayne Dyer, is the same as "sin nature"? I find that language of ego vs. spirit to be very helpful. It's obvious we all have an "ego" or "sin nature"- although I do not believe that we are by nature sinful. That's where I like the term ego better.

There's a line in one of the creeds or something that says, "I confess that I am by nature sinful and unclean" or something alone those lines. Whenever I think about it, I remember to confess that I am by nature perfect and brilliant! I for sure have a better understanding of unconditional love now that I have a child!

Kind of rambled here, didn't I?

[MyLittleWonders]

I want to respond more in a bit, but something you wrote about ego/sin nature made me think of something. I think it was in one of Bishop Spong's books where he talked about our survival instinct, which is a pretty selfish drive. To have survived as a species, we have needed to be pretty selfish over time - fight for food, shelter, a mate to carry on our DNA. As we have populated more of the Earth, we have come to a point where we need to lay aside our seflish drive to be more cooperative. As we have learned more, we can logically think through problems/disagreements which may have previously led to someone killing another out of fear that the other person would use all the resources for themselves. Kind of a "kill" to be "killed" mentality (and not that killing was/is the only way ... but hoarding food/resources/locations, stealing, lying, etc. all are ways to try and gain the upper hand). We still have a reptilian brain, and still sometimes will react from that place instead of from the place of our evolved capacity to rationalize and see into the future. Some people lean on their reptilian brains more than others. That, to me, is our "sin nature". Not that we are sinful people. But as a people, we have a long evolutionary history of needing to be overly selfish to ensure our own survival and the survival of our personal offspring/DNA.

So to me, we hurt one another and ourselves when we react from that place deep within us that is still programmed to think we need to fight for our survival. It all stems from a deep fear. When we can step beyond that into faith that we will be provided for, that there are enough resources for all of us, and that when we work together with one another, we all can survive, that it is not an either-or situation, that is when we are being fully human and when we display the love of God rather than the fear of humans. It's not that we are sinful because of the fall. Or that we are sinful people in need of salvation. It's that we need to be reminded that we are human and do not need to react/live our lives from that place of fear. When we do, we live based on the reptilian brain and end up hurting ourselves and each other. We are better than that, and capable of rising above that.

I'm not sure if that makes much sense ... but those are my thoughts, jumbled as they might be.

[hrsmom]

Makes sense! It sure gives me a lot of hope, too!

I hope you have a great weekend! We're just going to relax at home. The Gene Robinson book is in at the library, so we might head out to get that and play at the park across the street. I get my book, Hannah gets to play at the park! Sounds good to me!