Honey not ok for vegans?

[holdyourcolor]

I'm a 2 month vegetarian transitioning to vegan. I've heard that honey isn't vegan, and would like to know why that is.. and also a good substitute for it. I seen agave nectar, but I don't know if it is meant to be used like honey. Any ideas?

[Jelinifer]

Originally Posted by holdyourcolor

I'm a 2 month vegetarian transitioning to vegan. I've heard that honey isn't vegan, and would like to know why that is.. and also a good substitute for it. I seen agave nectar, but I don't know if it is meant to be used like honey. Any ideas?

Nope, honey comes from a sentient being and isn't vegan because of this. Bees use their honey for themselves and taking from them is about as vegan as taking cows milk away from a baby cow. Agave nectar is great stuff and can be used pretty much in the exact same was honey is... in deserts (I've had it in vegan baklava before) as a sweetner in drinks, etc.

[Lydiah]

Its not vegan because its stolen from the bees.

This is why I call myself a strict vegetarian over vegan. I dont eat meat, eggs, or dairy. I am technically not a vegan because I do enjoy honey.

[Kismet_fw]

I looked on the web, and found this:

"HONEY. Food for bees, made by bees. Still a sugar, too concentrated for humans. Contains toxins harmful to humans. Can cause allergic reactions. In cosmetics, foods. Alternatives: Maple syrup, date sugar, syrups made from grains."

I wasn't aware of toxins, but I do know that some gathering methods end up harming bees, leaving parts of legs, wings, bodies in the honey. The alternative I know better is agave nectar, apparently it's so easy on your glycemic reaction that it's even safe for most diabetics. You can get flavored agave nectars too, and I use them as you would honey (I'm not vegan or diabetic, but I buy alot of diabetic-friendly foods.)

[GreenVariety]

Depending on why you are vegan may affect your choice on honey. The bee's don't give their consent for you to take their honey but it is a 100% vegan product from my understanding (no animal products in it). I am vegan, yet I eat honey. I am not vegan for ethical reasons as much as I am for health reasons. Honey is considered to be a "superfood" by many and is very good for you in it's raw form from a local farmer with organic practices. I love raw honey (but that's me). It is far less processed then agave in most cases (assuming you are getting raw). Most agave you find in the store is extracted from the cactus at very high heats and a lot of stuff I have read compares it to corn syrup. Stevia is a good option especially if you grow the plants yourself!

Just my two cents! Good luck!

[Jelinifer]

Originally Posted by GreenVariety

Depending on why you are vegan may affect your choice on honey. The bee's don't give their consent for you to take their honey but it is a 100% vegan product from my understanding (no animal products in it). I am vegan, yet I eat honey. I am not vegan for ethical reasons as much as I am for health reasons. Honey is considered to be a "superfood" by many and is very good for you in it's raw form from a local farmer with organic practices. I love raw honey (but that's me). It is far less processed then agave in most cases (assuming you are getting raw). Most agave you find in the store is extracted from the cactus at very high heats and a lot of stuff I have read compares it to corn syrup. Stevia is a good option especially if you grow the plants yourself!

Just my two cents! Good luck!

Honey is an animal product in and of itsself.

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by Jelinifer

Honey is an animal product in and of itsself.

[GreenVariety]

Please excuse my slip in words. As I said, I am not a vegan for ethical reason's as much as I am for health (and environmental).

Honey is not made of any part of an animal. Nothing is dying/suffering for me to eat honey from a sustainable organic local farm with good honey bee practices. And farms with good practices also are helping the honey bee population survive the current honey bee hive decline. I am happy to support the survival of our honey bee populations. I also think that it is a much better practice to eat local honey then buy agave or another sweetener in the store that has been shipped across country. The carbon footprint gets to me.

As my experience stems from the raw vegan community and not traditional veganism that is where my knowledge base lies. In the raw vegan community honey is generally accepted as a superfood and a much better source of sweetener then agave or other processed alternatives because it is in it's natural form with wonderful enzymes and healing properties ranging from helping heal allergies to assisting the healing of large wounds. Perhaps I should come up with a different way of defining my eating style.

Fun factoid: A jar of honey, still in perfect condition, was found in an Egyptian tomb, where it was placed over 3,000 years ago.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gp3...age&q=&f=false

[Lydiah]

Originally Posted by GreenVariety

Please excuse my slip in words. As I said, I am not a vegan for ethical reason's as much as I am for health (and environmental).

Honey is not made of any part of an animal. Nothing is dying/suffering for me to eat honey from a sustainable organic local farm with good honey bee practices. And farms with good practices also are helping the honey bee population survive the current honey bee hive decline. I am happy to support the survival of our honey bee populations. I also think that it is a much better practice to eat local honey then buy agave or another sweetener in the store that has been shipped across country. The carbon footprint gets to me.

As my experience stems from the raw vegan community and not traditional veganism that is where my knowledge base lies. In the raw vegan community honey is generally accepted as a superfood and a much better source of sweetener then agave or other processed alternatives because it is in it's natural form with wonderful enzymes and healing properties ranging from helping heal allergies to assisting the healing of large wounds. Perhaps I should come up with a different way of defining my eating style.

Fun factoid: A jar of honey, still in perfect condition, was found in an Egyptian tomb, where it was placed over 3,000 years ago.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gp3...age&q=&f=false

Yeah, honey is the only food that does not go bad. I think thats neat.

Also you can use honey on cuts and scrapes like you would polysporin. Its good for sore throats and cough too. I like honey.

I know a lot of vegans work really hard at avoiding the the things they do so I try not to call myself one. I do use the title sometimes because people think I can eat dairy and eggs if I call myself a vegetarian.

[Jelinifer]

Originally Posted by GreenVariety

Please excuse my slip in words. As I said, I am not a vegan for ethical reason's as much as I am for health (and environmental).

Honey is not made of any part of an animal. Nothing is dying/suffering for me to eat honey from a sustainable organic local farm with good honey bee practices. And farms with good practices also are helping the honey bee population survive the current honey bee hive decline. I am happy to support the survival of our honey bee populations. I also think that it is a much better practice to eat local honey then buy agave or another sweetener in the store that has been shipped across country. The carbon footprint gets to me.

As my experience stems from the raw vegan community and not traditional veganism that is where my knowledge base lies. In the raw vegan community honey is generally accepted as a superfood and a much better source of sweetener then agave or other processed alternatives because it is in it's natural form with wonderful enzymes and healing properties ranging from helping heal allergies to assisting the healing of large wounds. Perhaps I should come up with a different way of defining my eating style.

Fun factoid: A jar of honey, still in perfect condition, was found in an Egyptian tomb, where it was placed over 3,000 years ago.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gp3...age&q=&f=false

Honey is a product made by an animal... that would make it an animal product. It is taken from a sentient being that needs it for itsself which is what makes it not vegan.... It's on the same idea as cow's milk not being vegan. Cow's milk does not contain animal flesh, but it is the product of an animal who needs it for itsself (or it's young in the case of cows) which makes milk also not appropriate for those who label themselves vegan.

[GreenVariety]

I concede.

I had no interest is debating the ethical reason's for being a vegan. I consider myself vegan. I stated in the beginning that I am not vegan for ethical reasons. This directly effects the reasoning process I feel. I feel my choices directly benefit my local economy and environment and Mother Earth as a whole.

For me it is ok to eat something or use something that is not contaminated with animal based proteins as well as no perceived suffering involved. Domestication in situations where animals are loved and respected qualifies as no perceived suffering to me.

I respect your view. I would appreciate it if you would respect mine.

[Jelinifer]

Originally Posted by GreenVariety

I concede.

I had no interest is debating the ethical reason's for being a vegan. I consider myself vegan. I stated in the beginning that I am not vegan for ethical reasons. This directly effects the reasoning process I feel. I feel my choices directly benefit my local economy and environment and Mother Earth as a whole.

For me it is ok to eat something or use something that is not contaminated with animal based proteins as well as no perceived suffering involved. Domestication in situations where animals are loved and respected qualifies as no perceived suffering to me.

I respect your view. I would appreciate it if you would respect mine.

I'm not trying to tell you how you should be eating... that's not what I'm trying to get at. If you call yourself vegan and eat honey, eggs, animal milks, etc. you're doing a disservice to those of us who don't because the general public assumes that the rest of us think its okay to be served eggs, honey, the occasional glass of goat milk, etc.... In the same respect, it's alot like folks who eat fish but still call themselves vegetarian. I've had to correct countless people IRL who don't know about Pescetarianism and think that all vegetarians eat fish.

[pers]

Originally Posted by GreenVariety

For me it is ok to eat something or use something that is not contaminated with animal based proteins as well as no perceived suffering involved. Domestication in situations where animals are loved and respected qualifies as no perceived suffering to me.

I think honey is okay to eat too. I eat it!

But honey is made by bees. Bees are a member of the animal kingdom. Thus honey is made by an animal and so is not vegan.

Some people who are otherwise vegan and sometimes who label themselves vegan still eat honey, true. Some people who are also otherwise vegan compromise and take medicine with gelatin or other animal products in them when they feel it necessary for their health. Whether or not these things are ethical is up for debate, as is whether people who slip in these areas have a right to the vegan label (I'm fine with it, personally, though many actual vegans are annoyed as it ends in people expecting it of them), but these things themselves are still by definition not at all vegan.

[lotusblossom9]

I use agave nectar. My favorite is Madhava agave nectar light.

[ShadowMoon]

Honey is vegetarian but certainly not vegan. A vegan, by definition, is someone that abstains and avoids all products made from animals or by-products of those animals. and avoids the exploitation of animals and their goods. That being said, I know of many people that live relatively vegan lifestyles but still consume honey. Don't get hung up on labels. Search yourself, educate yourself, and make moral decisions based on how you feel and what you feel is right. Every step away from cruelty is a step in the right direction. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach.

I enjoy agave nectar and use it wherever I may have once used honey. I also use it on pancakes and things like that. yummy

[Maluhia]

But Agave Nectar - not really unprocessed at all, yes?
not raw, second artcile, Wikipedia

I went back to Maple Syrup on that front, I know it's not raw (I'm not a raw foodie anyway), but at least I am a bit more sure of it's origins and growing up with natural access I can taste if it has been cut with HFCS, etc.

eta: Honey NOT vegan. No one is saying that earlier poster should not eat it, but rather that eating honey and representing as vegan is ill informing the public on what vegan is. And I swear I read that some bees are killed in the lifting out of hives to harvest honey - but that could be rumor. Why Honey Is Not Vegan

[alacrity]

http://www.vegansociety.com/animals/...ation/bees.php

The vegan society says honey is not vegan so it's best that honey eaters not call themselves vegan. it makes it hard for real vegans who get served honey because other people who eat honey call themselves vegan.

It's like "vegetarians" who eat fish. Then a real vegetarianhas to explain for the 10,000th time no i do not eat fish and no that person is not a vegetarian.

The vegan society coined the word so I would respect their definition which includes that you have to abstain from honey.

It may not be animal parts but neither is milk. the bees make the honey for their own purpose. they work hard and we have no right to take it. many honey harvesting practices are cruel and bees do die.

[ihugtrees]

This is a truly serious question--I'm not being a smart aleck. If I squash spiders in my house, or a roach..then does that mean I am technically not vegan? While I don't eat honey...it's not hard for me to avoid so I just don't eat it...I do squash the occasional bug.

[alacrity]

I catch spiders and put them outside unless they are poisonous.

As for roaches or anything that causes health problems I would kill. It is self defense. Much different than for pleasure of taste or fashion.

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by ihugtrees

This is a truly serious question--I'm not being a smart aleck. If I squash spiders in my house, or a roach..then does that mean I am technically not vegan? While I don't eat honey...it's not hard for me to avoid so I just don't eat it...I do squash the occasional bug.

personally, I view any intentional killing of insects to be not vegan. We take spiders, cockroaches, ants, mesquitos, et cetera back outside..

with potentially dangerous insects (like black widows) we catch them and take them a few blocks away to the lake by our house.

I have even shed tears before after accidently squishing an ant